Top 5 U.S. players by F, D and G

[Howe Elbows 9]

There have been discussions about the top players by position as well as discussions about the top players from the United States, so I thought I'd combine the two. Who do you think are the top forwards, defensemen and goalies from the U.S.?

Here are my picks:

Forwards
Pat LaFontaine
Joe Mullen
Jeremy Roenick
Mike Modano
Neal Broten

Kevin Stevens and Keith Tkachuk are two other really good players. Broten is the obligatory Miracle on Ice-participant, with an otherwise solid career as well.

Defensemen
Chris Chelios
Brian Leetch
Rod Langway
Mark Howe
Phil Housley

Does Gary Suter's Calder and Cup win beat Housley's longevity? Some might say yes, but I'll say no.

Goaltenders
Frank Brimsek
Tom Barrasso
John Vanbiesbrouck
Mike Richter
Mike Karakas

There are several currently active goalies with a nice resume as well, such as Thomas, DiPietro and Miller. Let's see what they can add to those resumes.

Click to read more...

 

[Dark Shadows]

Forwards:
1. LaFontaine
2. Roenick
3. Modano
4. Mullen
5. Tkachuk

HM: Leclair, Broten,

Defense:
1. Chelios
2a. Langway
2b. Leetch
4. Howe
5. Housley

HM: Schneider, Suter, Morrow, Ramsey, Si Griffis

Goaltending:
Frank Brimsek
Tom Barrasso
Mike Richter
John Vanbiesbrouck
?????

Yikes, there is not a whole lot to choose from here. Mike Karakas likely gets this spot until Ryan Miller has a few more good years.

After them, unless I am overlooking someone, you have to choose between guys like Guy Hebert, Mike Dunham, and Damian Rhodes.

 

[buffalowing88]

I'd take Morrow over Housley any day.

 

[vivianmb]

I'd take Morrow over Housley any day.

me too without a doubt. especially since any US team would already have leetch to move the puck.

 

[Dark Shadows]

I'd take Morrow over Housley any day.

Meh. Morrow was a terrific defensive Dman who played a very finesse no penalty style. But he only played 10 seasons and had no offensive game whatsoever.

Given a choice, I take Mike Ramsey and his 18 seasons over Morrow. Slightly better offensive game, equal defensive game while better at clearing the front of the net. Threw big open ice hits without putting himself out of position.

I can't say I would take either over Housley unless I already had 2 offensive Dmen.

 

[vivianmb]

Meh. Morrow was a terrific defensive Dman who played a very finesse no penalty style. But he only played 10 seasons and had no offensive game whatsoever.

Given a choice, I take Mike Ramsey and his 18 seasons over Morrow. Slightly better offensive game, equal defensive game while better at clearing the front of the net. Threw big open ice hits without putting himself out of position.

I can't say I would take either over Housley unless I already had 2 offensive Dmen.

morrow was also very clutch. he had at least three playoff ot goals during the dynasty. ramsay was nowhere near as good as morrow i don't care how long he played.morrow is severely underated.

 

[Dark Shadows]

morrow was also very clutch. he had at least three playoff ot goals during the dynasty. ramsay was nowhere near as good as morrow i don't care how long he played.morrow is severely underated.

Don't get me wrong, I love Morrow. But Ramsey was a terrific defensive Defenseman and he certainly was around Morrow in skill no matter how you slice it.

I don't see how you can possibly say Ramsey was nowhere near Morrow.

 

[buffalowing88]

Don't get me wrong, I love Morrow. But Ramsey was a terrific defensive Defenseman and he certainly was around Morrow in skill no matter how you slice it.

I don't see how you can possibly say Ramsey was nowhere near Morrow.

Thats funny, the Sabre's are far and away my team and I completely forgot about Ramsey.
He definitely deserves consideration. Steady play at all times. Underrated contributions offensively too.
I would take a player like Ramsey over Housley.
Housley just gets too much credit, even on these boards, he was never the best player on the ice at any given time. And no players or coaches had him lurking in the back of their heads when they played against him.

I stand by Morrow though. He was at a different class than the rest of these borderline guys. He just didnt have the longevity, but that doesent weigh too heavily on my mind, I'm of the Lafontaine school of thought it comes to ranking American players. A high peak, even if short lived, means something to me. I especially like Morrow because he was a winner before anything else and he showed up in the playoffs.


Is it too early to throw the Ryan Miller candidacy in the hat for top 5 American goalies. I am hesitant to approach that but he has shown me talent that surpasses Richter if not some other people on that list and he has 2 very good seasons (05-07), one good season (08-09), and one above average season (07-08) under his belt already and more playoff success than most goalies his age.

 

[NOTENOUGHJTCGOALS]

Hull is my top American forward.

 

[Dark Shadows]

Thats funny, the Sabre's are far and away my team and I completely forgot about Ramsey.
He definitely deserves consideration. Steady play at all times. Underrated contributions offensively too.
I would take a player like Ramsey over Housley.
Housley just gets too much credit, even on these boards, he was never the best player on the ice at any given time. And no players or coaches had him lurking in the back of their heads when they played against him.

I stand by Morrow though. He was at a different class than the rest of these borderline guys. He just didnt have the longevity, but that doesent weigh too heavily on my mind, I'm of the Lafontaine school of thought it comes to ranking American players. A high peak, even if short lived, means something to me. I especially like Morrow because he was a winner before anything else and he showed up in the playoffs.


Is it too early to throw the Ryan Miller candidacy in the hat for top 5 American goalies. I am hesitant to approach that but he has shown me talent that surpasses Richter if not some other people on that list and he has 2 very good seasons (05-07), one good season (08-09), and one above average season (07-08) under his belt already and more playoff success than most goalies his age.

Heh. Well, I guess I am in the minority for Ramsey. I just really liked his game, and think him and Morrow should be neck and neck.

I accept that our opinions differ, but Just for the heck of it, since they started in the exact same year, let's look at the All star selection voting for the two by year.

1980-81
DEFENSE: Denis Potvin 194; Randy Carlyle 168; Larry Robinson 153; Ray Bourque 118; Rod Langway 90; Larry Murphy 63; Mark Howe 50; Brian Engblom 44; Borje Salming 32; Jim Schoenfeld 29; Rob Ramage 29; Brad Park 27; Stefan Persson 23; Dave Langevin 16; Reed Larson 16; Paul Reinhart 13; John Van Boxmeer 8; Rick LaPointe 8; Bill Hajt 8; Ron Greschner 7; Behn Wilson 7; Richie Dunn 6; Kevin McCarthy 5; Dave Lewis 4; Serge Savard 3; Curt Giles 3; Risto Siltanen 2; Craig Hartsburg 2; Bob Lorimer 1; Ed Kea 1; Bob Murray 1; Mike Ramsey 1; Barry Beck 1; Jack Brownschidle 1

Nothing much for either player here. Just an afterthought vote for Ramsey

1981-82
DEFENSE: Doug Wilson 235 (39-12-4); Ray Bourque 170 (19-23-6); Paul Coffey 123 (13-16-10); Brian Engblom 112 (11-16-9); Craig Hartsburg 108 (14-10-8); Larry Robinson 91 (10-11-8); Kevin Lowe 55 (5-7-9); Rod Langway 54 (5-6-11); Barry Beck 45 (4-4-13); Denis Potvin 35 (2-3-16); John Van Boxmeer 29 (2-4-7); Randy Carlyle 15 (0-4-3); Borje Salming 14 (1-2-3); Dave Babych 12 (0-2-6); Brad Park 8 (0-2-2); Ken Morrow 7 (0-2-1); Dave Langevin 5 (1-0-0); Serge Savard 4 (0-1-1); Stefan Persson 4 (0-0-4); Brian Maxwell 3 (0-1-0); Harold Snepts 2 (0-0-2); Clark Gillies 1 (0-0-1); Ron Stackhouse 1 (0-0-1); Reed Larson 1 (0-0-1)

Morrow picks up a few 2nd/3rd votes. Impressive given that 3 other dmen from his team also picked up votes(Langevin got a 1st place vote, Persson 4 3rd place votes). What I don't get is why Clarke Gillies got a vote on defense lol.

1982-83
Numbers not available. A Shame because this was one of Ramsey's top years statistically.

1983-84
DEFENSE: Rod Langway 285; Ray Bourque 232; Paul Coffey 226; Denis Potvin 189; Phil Housley 38; Mike Ramsey 32; Scott Stevens 23; Barry Beck 18; Mark Howe 17; Mike O’Connell 16; Mario Marois 14; Kevin Lowe 6; Reijo Ruotsalainen 6; Rob Ramage 2; Stefan Persson 2; Doug Wilson 2; Ken Morrow 2; Charlie Huddy 2; Brad Park 1; Brad Maxwell 1; Bill Hajt 1; Reed Larson 1

Ramsey has a big lead in this year.

1984-85
DEFENSE: Paul Coffey 269 (49-7-3); Ray Bourque 210 (28-22-4); Rod Langway 190 (19-28-11); Doug Wilson 143 (17-14-16); Scott Stevens 77 (0-20-17); Mark Howe 56 (3-9-14); Randy Carlyle 42 (0-8-18); Brad McCrimmon 15 (0-4-3); Chris Chelios 13 (0-2-7); Paul Reinhart 10 (0-2-4); Kevin Lowe 8 (1-1-0); Charlie Huddy 6 (1-0-1); Denis Potvin 5 (0-0-5); Mike Ramsey 4 (0-0-4); Larry Robinson 4 (0-0-4); Reed Larson 3 (0-1-0); Bill Hajt 2 (0-0-2); Brad Marsh 1 (0-0-1); Phil Housley 1 (0-0-1); Curt Giles 1 (0-0-1); Rob Ramage 1 (0-0-1); Mark Hardy 1 (0-0-1)

1985-86
DEFENSE: Paul Coffey 294 (58-1-1); Mark Howe 272 (47-12-1); Larry Robinson 170 (4-47-9); Ray Bourque 158 (5-39-16); Rod Langway 87 (6-7-36); Doug Wilson 22 (0-2-16); Brad McCrimmon 17 (0-4-5); Denis Potvin 17 (0-2-11); Rob Ramage 10 (0-2-4); Scott Stevens 9 (0-1-6); Dave Babych 7 (0-2-1); Gary Suter 6 (0-0-6); Kevin Lowe 3 (0-1-0); Randy Carlyle 3 (0-0-3); Brad Marsh 2 (0-0-2); Curt Giles 1 (0-0-1); Al MacInnis 1 (0-0-1); Mike Ramsey 1 (0-0-1)

Another afterthought voting it seems.

1986-87
DEFENSE: Ray Bourque 270 (54-0-0); Mark Howe 248 (46-6-0); Larry Murphy 89 (2-23-10); Al MacInnis 60 (0-14-18); Larry Robinson 58 (3-13-14); Ulf Samuelsson 53 (0-14-11); Paul Coffey 38 (2-6-10); Rick Green 35 (0-8-11); Rod Langway 26 (0-7-5); Scott Stevens 15 (0-5-0); Mario Marois 15 (0-5-0); Darren Veitch 9 (0-0-9); Mike Ramsey 8 (0-2-2); Doug Wilson 7 (0-2-1); Kevin Lowe 7 (0-1-4); James Patrick 6 (0-1-3); Jamie Macoun 6 (0-1-3); Craig Hartsburg 4 (0-1-1); Paul Reinhart 4 (0-0-4); Mike O’Connell 3 (0-1-0); Rob Ramage 3 (0-1-0); Dave Ellett 2 (0-0-2); Brad McCrimmon 2 (0-0-2); Doug Lister 1 (0-0-1); Dana Murzyn 1 (0-0-1); Fredrik Olausson 1 (0-0-1); Denis Potvin 1 (0-0-1)

1987-88
DEFENSE: Ray Bourque 299 (58-2-3); Scott Stevens 211 (28-21-8); Gary Suter 172 (18-24-10); Brad McCrimmon 163 (14-29-6); Kevin Lowe 61 (5-10-6); Chris Chelios 58 (1-13-14); Mark Howe 41 (1-7-15); James Patrick 32 (1-4-15); Petr Svoboda 24 (0-4-12); Phil Housley 22 (0-3-13); Al MacInnis 21 (0-4-9); Paul Coffey 15 (0-3-6); Ulf Samuelsson 4 (0-1-1); Larry Murphy 3 (0-1-0); Denis Potvin 3 (0-0-3); Rick Zombo 2 (0-0-2); Randy Carlyle 1 (0-0-1); Rod Langway 1 (0-0-1); Larry Robinson 1 (0-0-1)

1988-89
DEFENSE: Chris Chelios, Mtl 267 (31-18-4-2-3-1); Paul Coffey, Pit 192 (15-11-13-3-6-8); Al MacInnis, Cgy 151 (5-10-12-10-7-3); Ray Bourque, Bos 136 (5-7-14-8-7-3); Steve Duchesne, LA 111 (1-3-9-17-5-8); Brad McCrimmon 57 (4-4-2-2-4-1); Brian Leetch, NYR 51 (0-2-1-6-8-12); Phil Housley, Buf 42 (0-3-2-3-8-4); Kevin Lowe, Edm 37 (0-3-2-4-2-2); Gary Suter, Cgy 33 (1-1-2-3-3-5); Scott Stevens, Wsh 24 (0-1-1-2-4-6); Rod Langway, Wsh 8 (1-0-1-0-0-0); Petr Svoboda, Mtl 7 (0-0-0-2-1-0); Tom Laidlaw, LA 3 (0-0-0-1-0-0); Kevin Hatcher, Wsh 3 (0-0-0-0-1-2); Craig Ludwig, Mtl 2 (0-0-0-0-2-0); Doug Wilson, Chi 2 (0-0-0-0-1-1); Charlie Huddy, Edm 2 (0-0-0-0-0-2); Rick Zombo 2 (0-0-0-0-0-2); Paul Reinhart, Van 1 (0-0-0-0-1-0); Tom Kurvers, NJ 1 (0-0-0-0-0-1); Craig Muni, Edm 1 (0-0-0-0-0-1); Fredrik Olausson, Wpg 1 (0-0-0-0-0-1)

1989-90
DEFENSE: Ray Bourque 315 (62-1-0-0-0-0); Al MacInnis 257 (0-37-19-4-3-0); Paul Coffey 138 (1-10-9-11-9-14); Doug Wilson 128 (0-6-20-8-8-6); Phil Housley 120 (0-6-8-16-14-4); Al Iafrate 47 (0-1-1-10-6-3); Paul Cavallini 37 (0-2-2-4-4-5); Mike Ramsey 16 (0-0-2-2-1-3); Gary Suter 14 (0-0-0-1-3-8); Kevin Lowe 10 (0-0-0-1-5-2); Chris Chelios 9 (0-0-1-0-2-4); Kevin Hatcher 7 (0-0-0-2-1-0); Craig Ludwig 7 (0-0-1-1-1-0); Jamie Macoun 6 (0-0-0-0-3-3); Brian Leetch 6 (0-0-0-1-1-2); Alexei Kasatonov 3 (0-0-0-1-0-0); Brad McCrimmon 3 (0-0-0-1-0-0); Dave Ellett 3 (0-0-0-0-1-2); Steve Duchesne 2 (0-0-0-0-1-1); Petr Svoboda 1 (0-0-0-0-0-1); Vyacheslav Fetisov 1 (0-0-0-0-0-1); Rick Zombo 1 (0-0-0-0-0-1); Dave Manson 1 (0-0-0-0-0-1); Craig Muni 1 (0-0-0-0-0-1); Doug Crossman 1 (0-0-0-0-0-1) (That isn't 1st-6th place votes. That's 1st-1st-2nd-2nd-3rd-3rd.)

1990-91
DEFENSE: Ray Bourque 320 (63-1-2); Al MacInnis 306 (54-12-0); Chris Chelios 165 (10-33-16); Brian Leetch 150 (4-33-31); Paul Coffey 102 (0-28-18); Scott Stevens 59 (1-10-24); Kevin Hatcher 46 (0-9-19); Phil Housley 13 (0-1-10); Steve Duchesne 7 (0-2-1); Gary Suter 5 (0-1-2); Marty McSorley 5 (0-1-2); Uwe Krupp 3 (0-1-0); Rob Blake 1 (0-0-1); Keith Brown 1 (0-0-1); Kevin Lowe 1 (0-0-1); Mike Ramsey 1 (0-0-1); Steve Smith 1 (0-0-1); Petr Svoboda 1 (0-0-1); Zarley Zalapski 1 (0-0-1) (Leetch has 68 of 66 votes, so obviously something’s off)


In all, neither defenseman was really notable enough to get enough voting we can put down as concrete. I guess it comes down to preference at this point. I just really liked Ramsey's game a tad more.

To each his own

 

[Dark Shadows]

Hull is my top American forward.

Hull does not really count, as he began born as a Canadian and was weaned in Canadian in Hockey. He chose to play for team USA because Canada did not show interest in having him on team Canada.

 

[DaveG]

Forwards:
1) Brett Hull
2) Pat Lafontaine
3) Joey Mullen
4) Mike Modano
5) Jeremy Roenick
Doug Weight at 5 and bump everyone else up one if Hull doesn't count

Defense:
1) Chris Chelios
2a) Brian Leetch
2b) Rod Langway
4) Mark Howe
5) Phil Housley

Goalies:
1) Frank Brimsek
2) Tony Esposito (adopted US citizenship to play in 1981 Canada Cup)
3) Tom Barrasso
4) Mike Richter
5) John Vanbiesbrouck

 

[Dark Shadows]

Forwards:
1) Brett Hull
2) Pat Lafontaine
3) Joey Mullen
4) Mike Modano
5) Jeremy Roenick
Doug Weight at 5 and bump everyone else up one if Hull doesn't count

Defense:
1) Chris Chelios
2a) Brian Leetch
2b) Rod Langway
4) Mark Howe
5) Phil Housley

Goalies:
1) Frank Brimsek
2) Tony Esposito (adopted US citizenship to play in 1981 Canada Cup)
3) Tom Barrasso
4) Mike Richter
5) John Vanbiesbrouck

If we use this metric, the Bryan Trottier should be #1 on the forwards list.

 

[DaveG]

I remembered reading about Tony O doing that but completely forgot about Trottier. The sad part is that reading about Trottier was what led to me trying to find out about other notable players that did that and brought me right to Esposito.

 

[pitseleh]

Cecil Dillon and Billy Burch should get an HM at the very least.

Dillon finished top-6 in goals six times, was an all-star three times (1st team once, 2nd team twice), and was known for being a very good checker.

Burch won the Hart in 24/25, and was top-10 in goals and points four times each on an NY Americans team that had a terrible supporting cast.

 

[thefifthsedin*]

longevity alone doesn't make you great

shortevity is underrated as a concept ... the best player of them all, mario lemieux, burned out and only played 771 pre-comeback games ... that's less than half the games chelios has ... so i guess he's half the player?

 

[Dark Shadows]

longevity alone doesn't make you great

shortevity is underrated as a concept ... the best player of them all, mario lemieux, burned out and only played 771 pre-comeback games ... that's less than half the games chelios has ... so i guess he's half the player?

You know Mario Lemieux is Canadian right?

This is a poll about American Players, not Canadian.

Regarding "Shortivity"(Never heard it called that before. I call it "peak"), most people seem to understand that concept since LaFontaine was voted in #1 by most.

 

[NOTENOUGHJTCGOALS]

Hull does not really count, as he began born as a Canadian and was weaned in Canadian in Hockey. He chose to play for team USA because Canada did not show interest in having him on team Canada.

Same with Paul Stastny and many others. To me if you're looking at US players who look at players who can/have played hockey for USA Hockey.

I can see your argument but to me he'll always be an American.

 

[buffalowing88]

Heh. Well, I guess I am in the minority for Ramsey. I just really liked his game, and think him and Morrow should be neck and neck.

I accept that our opinions differ, but Just for the heck of it, since they started in the exact same year, let's look at the All star selection voting for the two by year.

1980-81
DEFENSE: Denis Potvin 194; Randy Carlyle 168; Larry Robinson 153; Ray Bourque 118; Rod Langway 90; Larry Murphy 63; Mark Howe 50; Brian Engblom 44; Borje Salming 32; Jim Schoenfeld 29; Rob Ramage 29; Brad Park 27; Stefan Persson 23; Dave Langevin 16; Reed Larson 16; Paul Reinhart 13; John Van Boxmeer 8; Rick LaPointe 8; Bill Hajt 8; Ron Greschner 7; Behn Wilson 7; Richie Dunn 6; Kevin McCarthy 5; Dave Lewis 4; Serge Savard 3; Curt Giles 3; Risto Siltanen 2; Craig Hartsburg 2; Bob Lorimer 1; Ed Kea 1; Bob Murray 1; Mike Ramsey 1; Barry Beck 1; Jack Brownschidle 1

Nothing much for either player here. Just an afterthought vote for Ramsey

1981-82
DEFENSE: Doug Wilson 235 (39-12-4); Ray Bourque 170 (19-23-6); Paul Coffey 123 (13-16-10); Brian Engblom 112 (11-16-9); Craig Hartsburg 108 (14-10-8); Larry Robinson 91 (10-11-8); Kevin Lowe 55 (5-7-9); Rod Langway 54 (5-6-11); Barry Beck 45 (4-4-13); Denis Potvin 35 (2-3-16); John Van Boxmeer 29 (2-4-7); Randy Carlyle 15 (0-4-3); Borje Salming 14 (1-2-3); Dave Babych 12 (0-2-6); Brad Park 8 (0-2-2); Ken Morrow 7 (0-2-1); Dave Langevin 5 (1-0-0); Serge Savard 4 (0-1-1); Stefan Persson 4 (0-0-4); Brian Maxwell 3 (0-1-0); Harold Snepts 2 (0-0-2); Clark Gillies 1 (0-0-1); Ron Stackhouse 1 (0-0-1); Reed Larson 1 (0-0-1)

Morrow picks up a few 2nd/3rd votes. Impressive given that 3 other dmen from his team also picked up votes(Langevin got a 1st place vote, Persson 4 3rd place votes). What I don't get is why Clarke Gillies got a vote on defense lol.

1982-83
Numbers not available. A Shame because this was one of Ramsey's top years statistically.

1983-84
DEFENSE: Rod Langway 285; Ray Bourque 232; Paul Coffey 226; Denis Potvin 189; Phil Housley 38; Mike Ramsey 32; Scott Stevens 23; Barry Beck 18; Mark Howe 17; Mike O’Connell 16; Mario Marois 14; Kevin Lowe 6; Reijo Ruotsalainen 6; Rob Ramage 2; Stefan Persson 2; Doug Wilson 2; Ken Morrow 2; Charlie Huddy 2; Brad Park 1; Brad Maxwell 1; Bill Hajt 1; Reed Larson 1

Ramsey has a big lead in this year.

1984-85
DEFENSE: Paul Coffey 269 (49-7-3); Ray Bourque 210 (28-22-4); Rod Langway 190 (19-28-11); Doug Wilson 143 (17-14-16); Scott Stevens 77 (0-20-17); Mark Howe 56 (3-9-14); Randy Carlyle 42 (0-8-18); Brad McCrimmon 15 (0-4-3); Chris Chelios 13 (0-2-7); Paul Reinhart 10 (0-2-4); Kevin Lowe 8 (1-1-0); Charlie Huddy 6 (1-0-1); Denis Potvin 5 (0-0-5); Mike Ramsey 4 (0-0-4); Larry Robinson 4 (0-0-4); Reed Larson 3 (0-1-0); Bill Hajt 2 (0-0-2); Brad Marsh 1 (0-0-1); Phil Housley 1 (0-0-1); Curt Giles 1 (0-0-1); Rob Ramage 1 (0-0-1); Mark Hardy 1 (0-0-1)

1985-86
DEFENSE: Paul Coffey 294 (58-1-1); Mark Howe 272 (47-12-1); Larry Robinson 170 (4-47-9); Ray Bourque 158 (5-39-16); Rod Langway 87 (6-7-36); Doug Wilson 22 (0-2-16); Brad McCrimmon 17 (0-4-5); Denis Potvin 17 (0-2-11); Rob Ramage 10 (0-2-4); Scott Stevens 9 (0-1-6); Dave Babych 7 (0-2-1); Gary Suter 6 (0-0-6); Kevin Lowe 3 (0-1-0); Randy Carlyle 3 (0-0-3); Brad Marsh 2 (0-0-2); Curt Giles 1 (0-0-1); Al MacInnis 1 (0-0-1); Mike Ramsey 1 (0-0-1)

Another afterthought voting it seems.

1986-87
DEFENSE: Ray Bourque 270 (54-0-0); Mark Howe 248 (46-6-0); Larry Murphy 89 (2-23-10); Al MacInnis 60 (0-14-18); Larry Robinson 58 (3-13-14); Ulf Samuelsson 53 (0-14-11); Paul Coffey 38 (2-6-10); Rick Green 35 (0-8-11); Rod Langway 26 (0-7-5); Scott Stevens 15 (0-5-0); Mario Marois 15 (0-5-0); Darren Veitch 9 (0-0-9); Mike Ramsey 8 (0-2-2); Doug Wilson 7 (0-2-1); Kevin Lowe 7 (0-1-4); James Patrick 6 (0-1-3); Jamie Macoun 6 (0-1-3); Craig Hartsburg 4 (0-1-1); Paul Reinhart 4 (0-0-4); Mike O’Connell 3 (0-1-0); Rob Ramage 3 (0-1-0); Dave Ellett 2 (0-0-2); Brad McCrimmon 2 (0-0-2); Doug Lister 1 (0-0-1); Dana Murzyn 1 (0-0-1); Fredrik Olausson 1 (0-0-1); Denis Potvin 1 (0-0-1)

1987-88
DEFENSE: Ray Bourque 299 (58-2-3); Scott Stevens 211 (28-21-8); Gary Suter 172 (18-24-10); Brad McCrimmon 163 (14-29-6); Kevin Lowe 61 (5-10-6); Chris Chelios 58 (1-13-14); Mark Howe 41 (1-7-15); James Patrick 32 (1-4-15); Petr Svoboda 24 (0-4-12); Phil Housley 22 (0-3-13); Al MacInnis 21 (0-4-9); Paul Coffey 15 (0-3-6); Ulf Samuelsson 4 (0-1-1); Larry Murphy 3 (0-1-0); Denis Potvin 3 (0-0-3); Rick Zombo 2 (0-0-2); Randy Carlyle 1 (0-0-1); Rod Langway 1 (0-0-1); Larry Robinson 1 (0-0-1)

1988-89
DEFENSE: Chris Chelios, Mtl 267 (31-18-4-2-3-1); Paul Coffey, Pit 192 (15-11-13-3-6-8); Al MacInnis, Cgy 151 (5-10-12-10-7-3); Ray Bourque, Bos 136 (5-7-14-8-7-3); Steve Duchesne, LA 111 (1-3-9-17-5-8); Brad McCrimmon 57 (4-4-2-2-4-1); Brian Leetch, NYR 51 (0-2-1-6-8-12); Phil Housley, Buf 42 (0-3-2-3-8-4); Kevin Lowe, Edm 37 (0-3-2-4-2-2); Gary Suter, Cgy 33 (1-1-2-3-3-5); Scott Stevens, Wsh 24 (0-1-1-2-4-6); Rod Langway, Wsh 8 (1-0-1-0-0-0); Petr Svoboda, Mtl 7 (0-0-0-2-1-0); Tom Laidlaw, LA 3 (0-0-0-1-0-0); Kevin Hatcher, Wsh 3 (0-0-0-0-1-2); Craig Ludwig, Mtl 2 (0-0-0-0-2-0); Doug Wilson, Chi 2 (0-0-0-0-1-1); Charlie Huddy, Edm 2 (0-0-0-0-0-2); Rick Zombo 2 (0-0-0-0-0-2); Paul Reinhart, Van 1 (0-0-0-0-1-0); Tom Kurvers, NJ 1 (0-0-0-0-0-1); Craig Muni, Edm 1 (0-0-0-0-0-1); Fredrik Olausson, Wpg 1 (0-0-0-0-0-1)

1989-90
DEFENSE: Ray Bourque 315 (62-1-0-0-0-0); Al MacInnis 257 (0-37-19-4-3-0); Paul Coffey 138 (1-10-9-11-9-14); Doug Wilson 128 (0-6-20-8-8-6); Phil Housley 120 (0-6-8-16-14-4); Al Iafrate 47 (0-1-1-10-6-3); Paul Cavallini 37 (0-2-2-4-4-5); Mike Ramsey 16 (0-0-2-2-1-3); Gary Suter 14 (0-0-0-1-3-8); Kevin Lowe 10 (0-0-0-1-5-2); Chris Chelios 9 (0-0-1-0-2-4); Kevin Hatcher 7 (0-0-0-2-1-0); Craig Ludwig 7 (0-0-1-1-1-0); Jamie Macoun 6 (0-0-0-0-3-3); Brian Leetch 6 (0-0-0-1-1-2); Alexei Kasatonov 3 (0-0-0-1-0-0); Brad McCrimmon 3 (0-0-0-1-0-0); Dave Ellett 3 (0-0-0-0-1-2); Steve Duchesne 2 (0-0-0-0-1-1); Petr Svoboda 1 (0-0-0-0-0-1); Vyacheslav Fetisov 1 (0-0-0-0-0-1); Rick Zombo 1 (0-0-0-0-0-1); Dave Manson 1 (0-0-0-0-0-1); Craig Muni 1 (0-0-0-0-0-1); Doug Crossman 1 (0-0-0-0-0-1) (That isn't 1st-6th place votes. That's 1st-1st-2nd-2nd-3rd-3rd.)

1990-91
DEFENSE: Ray Bourque 320 (63-1-2); Al MacInnis 306 (54-12-0); Chris Chelios 165 (10-33-16); Brian Leetch 150 (4-33-31); Paul Coffey 102 (0-28-18); Scott Stevens 59 (1-10-24); Kevin Hatcher 46 (0-9-19); Phil Housley 13 (0-1-10); Steve Duchesne 7 (0-2-1); Gary Suter 5 (0-1-2); Marty McSorley 5 (0-1-2); Uwe Krupp 3 (0-1-0); Rob Blake 1 (0-0-1); Keith Brown 1 (0-0-1); Kevin Lowe 1 (0-0-1); Mike Ramsey 1 (0-0-1); Steve Smith 1 (0-0-1); Petr Svoboda 1 (0-0-1); Zarley Zalapski 1 (0-0-1) (Leetch has 68 of 66 votes, so obviously something’s off)


In all, neither defenseman was really notable enough to get enough voting we can put down as concrete. I guess it comes down to preference at this point. I just really liked Ramsey's game a tad more.

To each his own

very interesting. thanks for the research. Both of those guys played in as good an era for D-Men as I have seen. Probably could have ranked in higher in voting ten years prior to or after they peaked.

 

[finchster]

Goaltending:
Frank Brimsek
Tom Barrasso
Mike Richter
John Vanbiesbrouck
?????

Yikes, there is not a whole lot to choose from here. Mike Karakas likely gets this spot until Ryan Miller has a few more good years.

I maybe bias but Tim Thomas?

 

[Dark Shadows]

very interesting. thanks for the research. Both of those guys played in as good an era for D-Men as I have seen. Probably could have ranked in higher in voting ten years prior to or after they peaked.

Agreed.

I maybe bias but Tim Thomas?

I forgot he was American. Since he only emerged recently. An oversight. He has as good, if not better a chance

 

[buffalowing88]

I maybe bias but Tim Thomas?

Thomas and Miller should both top this list when their careers are done.

The only guy currently listed that I really like was Beezer, otherwise, I see a bunch of above average keepers. Richter had very good performances in big games but I thought he was nothing special 90 percent of the time.
Dipietro has the tools, but I just don't know what to make of his future health wise.

Quick note on Ramsey and Morrow, I forgot to mention both played for that 1980 Miracle team, dont know if that was noted prior to this but it's worth bringing into consideration.

 

[reckoning]

1982-83
Numbers not available. A Shame because this was one of Ramsey's top years statistically.

1982-83:
DEFENSE: (1115) Mark Howe 262; Rod Langway 228; Ray Bourque 218; Paul Coffey 111; Doug Wilson 96; Denis Potvin 38; Mike O’Connell 33; Charlie Huddy 27; Dave Babych 20; Paul Reinhart (19?); Larry Robinson 14; Gordie Roberts 10; Borje Salming 10; Phil Housley 8; Mike Milbury 7; Mike Ramsey 6; Barry Beck 5; Craig Hartsburg 4; Reijo Ruotsalainen 3; Tomas Jonsson 3; Brad Park 3; Brian Engblom 3; Dave Langevin 3; Reed Larson 1; Bob Murray 1; Curt Giles 1

Seeing Curt Giles name there, it's possible that the previous year he was the player the Clark Gillies vote was intended for. The names are a little similiar.

Another point about Morrow: everybody always refers to Butch Goring as "the missing piece" for the Islanders that put them over the edge and turned them into champions because the Islanders played so well after that trade and into the playoffs. But Morrow joined the team roughly the same time as Goring and played a huge role as well. Having him as a legitimate shutdown defencemen helped take some pressure off Potvin. Morrow's arrival also made Dave Lewis expendable in that Goring trade.

 

[Dark Shadows]

1982-83:
DEFENSE: (1115) Mark Howe 262; Rod Langway 228; Ray Bourque 218; Paul Coffey 111; Doug Wilson 96; Denis Potvin 38; Mike O’Connell 33; Charlie Huddy 27; Dave Babych 20; Paul Reinhart (19?); Larry Robinson 14; Gordie Roberts 10; Borje Salming 10; Phil Housley 8; Mike Milbury 7; Mike Ramsey 6; Barry Beck 5; Craig Hartsburg 4; Reijo Ruotsalainen 3; Tomas Jonsson 3; Brad Park 3; Brian Engblom 3; Dave Langevin 3; Reed Larson 1; Bob Murray 1; Curt Giles 1

Seeing Curt Giles name there, it's possible that the previous year he was the player the Clark Gillies vote was intended for. The names are a little similiar.

Nice. Thank you.

Someone should add that to the official post in the all star awards. Do you have the rest of the all star voting that year? For other positions?

 

[reckoning]

Nice. Thank you.

Someone should add that to the official post in the all star awards. Do you have the rest of the all star voting that year? For other positions?

It's somewhere in the All-Star voting thread. It was added later on.