Top 5 players all time for big 6 countries

[MajorLeafsFan]

Knew I was forgetting some. like Karlsson and Datsyuk. I'll edit..

Gotta admit, I know Ruotsalainen, but not much about him. He can't be third on the finns though. Isn't Numminen a better D-man?

The reason you don't know much about him, is because he only played 8 NHL seasons.
To answer your second question, without a doubt Numminen is a better D-man, but he also played 19 seasons in the NHL, far more than Ruotsalainen.

 

[Regal]

Bourque/Potvin?

As far as I can remember he was the only one who played for the soviet national team as a 17y.o. as a defenceman.

And at 18 he was pretty much a prime Lidstrom and got better after that obviously.

So the laughter is because? Bourque and Potvin were better than Lidstrom

 

[Jugitsu]

Bourque/Potvin?

As far as I can remember he was the only one who played for the soviet national team as a 17y.o. as a defenceman.

And at 18 he was pretty much a prime Lidstrom and got better after that obviously.

That's a pretty bold statement, considering prime Lidstrom is possibly the best European hockey player of all time.

I will only list Fins and Swedes:

Sweden

1. Lidstrom 2. Salming 3. Forsberg 4. Sundin 5. Karlsson (debatable)

Finland

1. Selanne 2. Kurri 3. Lehtinen 4. Numminen 5. Kiprusoff (honorary mentions: S. Koivu, Timonen, Ylonen, Salo)

 

[Jugitsu]

So the laughter is because? Bourque and Potvin were better than Lidstrom

Lidstrom's 7 Norris trophies and Conn Smythe disagrees with that assessment.

 

[agent082]

Nice to see that Marko is getting this much love.

 

[b in vancouver]

Can 1. Gretzky 2. Lemieux. 3. Orr 4. Howe 5. Richard

USA 1. Hull 2. Modano 3. Kane 4. Roenick 5. Chelios

Swe 1. Forsberg 2. Lidstrom 3. Karlsson 4. Sundin 5 Sedins

Fin 1. Selanne 2. Kurri 3. Koivu. 4. Tikkanen 5. Lehtinen

Cze 1. Jagr 2. Hasek 3. Elias 4. Hejduk 5. Straka

Rus 1. Ovechkin 2. Malkin 3. Fedorov 4. Datsyuk 5. Bure

Top of my head. Lets see yours?

That's the problem with your list. You think the russian group is stacked while probably not one of them would make the all-time top 5 list.

1.Kharlamov 2.Bobrov 3.Tretiak 4.Makarov 5.Fetisov

And the top 3 is not debatable.

The Russian group was the one that really jumped out. I'm not Russian so others would know better but... how would a Russian list not have Kharlamov as #1? never mind not in the top 5? How do you forget about Tretiak? Off the top of my head I forgot about Bobrov. But both Makarov and Larionov. Fetisov.

I think Ovechkin deserves a place in the top 5 but not sure any of the other 4 do.

 

[The Macho King]

Lidstrom's 7 Norris trophies and Conn Smythe disagrees with that assessment.

Bourque has better Norris finishes than Norris against better competition. Lidstrom didn't start winning Norris' until guys like MacInnis, Bourque, Leetch, and others were out of the game (or at least well past their prime). Lidstrom did not have nearly the competition for his wins. Pronger (who has 1 win and no other top 2 finishes), Niedermayer (who had a very brief peak), and... Chara?

 

[DaJackal]

OP's current list looks quite solid to me. Could swap some names here and there but not enough that making a list of my own would bring anything new to the conversation.

 

[Jugitsu]

Bourque has better Norris finishes than Norris against better competition. Lidstrom didn't start winning Norris' until guys like MacInnis, Bourque, Leetch, and others were out of the game (or at least well past their prime). Lidstrom did not have nearly the competition for his wins. Pronger (who has 1 win and no other top 2 finishes), Niedermayer (who had a very brief peak), and... Chara?

I'll admit, Bourque vs. Lidstrom is debatable. For my personal bias, I give the edge to Lidstrom. Never seen more perfect or poised hockey player. He also didn't regress like the rest of 'em when he got closer to 40 years old. Earning a Conn Smythe in a pretty stacked up Detroit Redwings team in 2001-2002 is also something I consider one of the greatest feats of modern era.

 

[The Macho King]

I'll admit, Bourque vs. Lidstrom is debatable. For my personal bias, I give the edge to Lidstrom. Never seen more perfect or poised hockey player. He also didn't regress like the rest of 'em when he got closer to 40 years old. Earning a Conn Smythe in a pretty stacked up Detroit Redwings team in 2001-2002 is also something I consider one of the greatest feats of modern era.

So preference of Lidstrom over Bourque is fine, but...

I mean, the one player in the league that has an argument of "length of prime" over Lidstrom (as a D) is Bourque. Bourque's prime was basically his entire career. He was a post-season all-star all but 3 seasons in his entire 21 season career (which is f***ing BONKERS), and finished 2nd in Norris voting in his final season at age 40.

 

[DashingDane]

Ehlers , Nielsen, Andersen, Hansen and Bjorkstrand.

Denmark is bigger than Finland and Sweden when you include Greenland and therefore must be included in the Big 6 countries

 

[Jugitsu]

So preference of Lidstrom over Bourque is fine, but...

I mean, the one player in the league that has an argument of "length of prime" over Lidstrom (as a D) is Bourque. Bourque's prime was basically his entire career. He was a post-season all-star all but 3 seasons in his entire 21 season career (which is ****ing BONKERS), and finished 2nd in Norris voting in his final season at age 40.

I know. My 'rest of em' remark wasn't aimed at Bourque since he was a tremendous D-man from start to finish.

Fitting to our conversation that Bourque finished second in Norris in his final season and the winner that season was Lidstrom for the first of his career.

 

[Frankie Blueberries]

Jesus man.

You don't make the top 10 over players like Modano, Hull, Roenick, Housley, Mullen, Weight, Leetch, Lafontaine, Chelios, Amonte, Leclair, Mcnab, Kane and plenty of others who have PPG or Near PPG careers with close to or over 1000 points and multiple cups and awards because you had a 69 point rookie season and lost in the first round.

Get a grip.

Rekt

 

[Regal]

Lidstrom's 7 Norris trophies and Conn Smythe disagrees with that assessment.

Lidstrom's poor competition for those Norris' disagrees. Regardless, they're all on a similar level, and I highly doubt Fetisov was as good as them in their prime at 18 and got better from there.

 

[Weztex]

I'll give it a shot. Top 6-10 aren't ordered

Canada
1 - Wayne Gretzky
2 - Bobby Orr
3 - Gordie Howe
4 - Mario Lemieux
5 - Jean Beliveau
(Top 10 - S. Crosby, D. Harvey, B. Hull, M. Richard, E. Shore)

USA
1 - Chris Chelios
2 - Frank Brimsek*
3 - Patrick Kane
4 - Mike Modano
5 - Brian Leetch
(Top 10 - M. Howe, P. LaFontaine, R. Langway, J. LeClair, J. Roenick)
* If listed as an american that's the Golden Brett's spot

USSR/Russia
1 - Alexander Ovechkin
2 - Vyacheslav Fetisov
3 - Sergei Makarov
4 - Valeri Kharlamov
5 - Vladislav Tretiak
(Top 10 - P. Datsyuk, S. Fedorov, A. Firsov, E. Malkin, B. Mikhailov)

Sweden
1 - Nicklas Lidstrom
2 - Peter Forsberg
3 - Borje Salming
4 - Erik Karlsson
5 - Mats Sundin
(Top 10+1 - D. Alfredsson, H. Lundqvist, Sedins Bros, S. Tumba, H. Zetterberg)

Finland
1 - Teemu Selanne
2 - Jari Kurri
3 - Jere Lethinen
4 - Esa Tikkanen
5 - Miikka Kiprusoff
(Top 10 - O. Jokinen, S. Koivu, T. Numminen, P. Rinne, K. Timonen)

Czech Republic
1 - Dominik Hasek
2 - Jaromir Jagr
3 - Vladimir Martinec
4 - Jiri Holocek
5 - Jan Suchy
(Top 10 - P. Elias, M. Hejduk, V. Nedomansky, M. Novy, F. Pospisil)

 

[jonlin]

For Finland there is a clear Top2:

1.Kurri
2.Selänne

After that theres Lehtinen, Tikkanen, Kiprusoff, Koivu, Ylönen(Urpo G)

Then Ruotsalainen, Numminen, Lumme, O.Jokinen

Then Salo, Timonen, Sinisalo etc.

I listed only inactive players. Of the active ones I`d imagine Barkov, Laine and Rinne are the best bets. M.Koivu, S.Aho I believe will be in the 2nd tier

 

[Brownbeard]

I miss Mats

 

[Hatter of the Beach]

Jesus man.

You don't make the top 10 over players like Modano, Hull, Roenick, Housley, Mullen, Weight, Leetch, Lafontaine, Chelios, Amonte, Leclair, Mcnab, Kane and plenty of others who have PPG or Near PPG careers with close to or over 1000 points and multiple cups and awards because you had a 69 point rookie season and lost in the first round.

Get a grip.

While I agree with the sentimemt, you can very easily put Matthews ahead of Amonte

 

[FrozenJagrt]

Beliveau over Richard, Hasek over Jagr.

 

[snipes]

Kharlamov has to be there for Russia/USSR

 

[Atas2000]

That's a pretty bold statement, considering prime Lidstrom is possibly the best European hockey player of all time.

As bold it may sound I've watched both players throughout their both careers and that's what I think while I obviously disagree about Lidstrom being the best european player of all time. Fetisov was a more physical type with the same great sence for positioning and reading the play and he was even better offensively. The so called Green Unit was a unit for a reason. Because all of them had the creativity and skill to play as a 5-men-creature with a hive mind. And Fetisov and Makarov stood out among them still. I couldn't count how many times I whitnessed the play - an outlet pass by Fetisov to Makarov that inevitably resulted in a breakaway and a goal(and there was a 2-line-pass rule back then).

And oh yeah, Fetisov was the captain obviously. A leader through and through.

 

[ManWithNoName]

Can 1. Gretzky 2. Lemieux. 3. Howe 4. Crosby 5. Roy

USA 1. Hull 2. Modano 3. Kane 4. Roenick 5. Chelios

Swe 1. Forsberg 2. Lidstrom 3. Salming 4. Lundqvist 5. Karlsson

Fin 1. Selanne 2. Kurri 3. S. Koivu. 4. Numminen 5. M. Koivu

Cze 1. Jagr 2. Hasek 3. Elias 4. Hejduk 5. Straka

Rus 1. Ovechkin 2. Malkin 3. Bure 4. Fetisov 5. Larionov

 

[Atas2000]

So the laughter is because? Bourque and Potvin were better than Lidstrom

And? Fetisov was better than any of them.

 

[Regal]

And? Fetisov was better than any of them.

Sure he was

 

[Crazy Cizikas]

Can 1. Gretzky 2. Lemieux. 3. Orr 4. Howe 5. Richard

USA 1. Hull 2. Modano 3. Kane 4. Roenick 5. Chelios

Swe 1. Forsberg 2. Lidstrom 3. Karlsson 4. Sundin 5 Sedins

Fin 1. Selanne 2. Kurri 3. Koivu. 4. Tikkanen 5. Lehtinen

Cze 1. Jagr 2. Hasek 3. Elias 4. Hejduk 5. Straka

Rus 1. Ovechkin 2. Malkin 3. Fedorov 4. Datsyuk 5. Bure

Top of my head. Lets see yours?

Daniel Sedin and Henrik Sedin are two individual people.