Top 40 Canucks of All-Time Preliminary Discussion Thread - Lists Now Being Accepted

[vancityluongo]

i prefer a steady role player who contributed important but underheralded dirty work to winning teams than a first line player scoring above average points on mediocre-to-terrible teams.

Agreed completely. Pretty much any above average NHL player can score 40-50 points when given first line minutes and top powerplay minutes.

Sorry, but 48 total points in 3 partial seasons does not get you anywhere close to the top 60 canucks all-time, even if he was the best 3rd line centre the canucks ever had.

I don't disagree, but I think there's more merit to the second part of your sentence than the first. Malhotra's one season as the best defensive player in the league on the best team in Canucks history is worth more to me than Anson Carter scoring 33 for simply shooting right while playing with the Sedins on an utterly disappointing team.

 

[Hardyvan123]

Agreed completely. Pretty much any above average NHL player can score 40-50 points when given first line minutes and top powerplay minutes.

Sure there is something to that but I doubt there are going to be any one season guys in the top 60 and being able to be a top line player should mean something right?

I don't disagree, but I think there's more merit to the second part of your sentence than the first. Malhotra's one season as the best defensive player in the league on the best team in Canucks history is worth more to me than Anson Carter scoring 33 for simply shooting right while playing with the Sedins on an utterly disappointing team.

Pretty sure Carter wasn't going to make anyone's top 60 list but really how much is Manny worth?

He played an important role on that 11 team but played under 11MPG in 11 playoff games with a doughnut line.

Regular season he played in 16:10 in that peak 11 season then

78 GP, 12:21 MPG
9 GP 11:08 MPG

Even on a weak, comparatively Canucks top 60 players of all time he needs a larger resume to garner serious consideration right?

As for the best defensive player in the league that year he did finish 5th and has a legit top 5 argument but actually rating best defensive player is soooo subjective

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

Do we think we are ready to start submitting our top 60 lists?

I would target to start accepting them January 10th, with the deadline being January 25th. That leaves a good 2 weeks for people to see this and get their lists in. Thoughts?

Though if it was only like 5 or 6 of us probably wouldn't be worth it.

maybe we should get a show of hands, either here in the thread or via PM, before this gets more serious/time consuming?

 

[MS]

maybe we should get a show of hands, either here in the thread or via PM, before this gets more serious/time consuming?

I'm in for sure.

Going through the thread, it looks like there are 9-10 people for sure. Would be nice to get up to 15 or so.

 

[Captain Bowie]

I guess I should figure out what the minimum is to do this. I dunno, would 10 be enough? I was hoping for at least 15.

 

[Hardyvan123]

I guess I should figure out what the minimum is to do this. I dunno, would 10 be enough? I was hoping for at least 15.

Considering how many people come to this forum one would hope we could get 10 guys at least but who knows maybe it's easier for some of these posters to take pot shots at other teams than actually look at the history of their team?

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

not sure what the best thread to post this into is, but here are their career stats in case there's still anyone who still prefers the old swedish captain to the current one:

1047 games, 201 goals, 675 assists, 876 points (240, 777, 1017 adjusted), all in a canucks uniform

vs.

1117 games, 395 goals, 474 assists, 869 points (434, 506, 940 adjusted; 884 games and 346, 410, 756 in a canucks uniform; 384, 443, 827 adjusted in a canucks uniform)

i noticed this because they are currently 111 and 112 all-time in NHL scoring.

henrik is 33rd and 77th in career adjusted assists and points, respectively; markus is 69th and 97th in adjusted goals and points. henrik is 60th all-time in assists; naslund doesn't hit the top 100 in anything unadjusted.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

^ and also, this is pretty amazing. as of today, the all-time points list:

111 Henrik Sedin 1047 201 675 876
112 Markus Naslund 1117 395 474 869
113 Cliff Ronning 1137 306 563 869
114 Trevor Linden 1382 375 492 867
115 Ivan Boldirev 1052 361 505 866

 

[Captain Bowie]

^ and also, this is pretty amazing. as of today, the all-time points list:

111 Henrik Sedin 1047 201 675 876
112 Markus Naslund 1117 395 474 869
113 Cliff Ronning 1137 306 563 869
114 Trevor Linden 1382 375 492 867
115 Ivan Boldirev 1052 361 505 866

That's just bizarre.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

and for no particular reason except that i know how to make charts now:

ranking | name | games | goals | assists | points
27 | Mats Sundin | 1346 | 564 | 785 | 1349
70 | Alexander Mogilny | 990 | 473 | 559 | 1032
111 | Henrik Sedin | 1047 | 201 | 675 | 876
112 | Markus Naslund | 1117 | 395 | 474 | 869
113 | Cliff Ronning | 1137 | 306 | 563 | 869
114 | Trevor Linden | 1382 | 375 | 492 | 867
115 | Ivan Boldirev | 1052 | 361 | 505 | 866
129 | Daniel Sedin | 1016 | 315 | 525 | 840
146 | Peter McNab | 954 | 363 | 450 | 813
154 | Geoff Courtnall | 1048 | 367 | 432 | 799
159 | Rick Vaive | 876 | 441 | 347 | 788
163 | Pavel Bure | 702 | 437 | 342 | 779
169 | Todd Bertuzzi | 1159 | 314 | 456 | 770
170 | Pavol Demitra | 847 | 304 | 464 | 768
175 | Murray Craven | 1071 | 266 | 493 | 759
177 | Mike Ridley | 866 | 292 | 466 | 758
185 | Russ Courtnall | 1029 | 297 | 447 | 744
186 | Greg Adams | 1056 | 355 | 388 | 743
187 | Mathieu Schneider | 1289 | 223 | 520 | 743
192 | Andrew Cassels | 1015 | 204 | 528 | 732
199 | Marian Gaborik | 837 | 359 | 365 | 724

 

[Hardyvan123]

and for no particular reason except that i know how to make charts now:

ranking | name | games | goals | assists | points
27 | Mats Sundin | 1346 | 564 | 785 | 1349
70 | Alexander Mogilny | 990 | 473 | 559 | 1032
111 | Henrik Sedin | 1047 | 201 | 675 | 876
112 | Markus Naslund | 1117 | 395 | 474 | 869
113 | Cliff Ronning | 1137 | 306 | 563 | 869
114 | Trevor Linden | 1382 | 375 | 492 | 867
115 | Ivan Boldirev | 1052 | 361 | 505 | 866
129 | Daniel Sedin | 1016 | 315 | 525 | 840
146 | Peter McNab | 954 | 363 | 450 | 813
154 | Geoff Courtnall | 1048 | 367 | 432 | 799
159 | Rick Vaive | 876 | 441 | 347 | 788
163 | Pavel Bure | 702 | 437 | 342 | 779
169 | Todd Bertuzzi | 1159 | 314 | 456 | 770
170 | Pavol Demitra | 847 | 304 | 464 | 768
175 | Murray Craven | 1071 | 266 | 493 | 759
177 | Mike Ridley | 866 | 292 | 466 | 758
185 | Russ Courtnall | 1029 | 297 | 447 | 744
186 | Greg Adams | 1056 | 355 | 388 | 743
187 | Mathieu Schneider | 1289 | 223 | 520 | 743
192 | Andrew Cassels | 1015 | 204 | 528 | 732
199 | Marian Gaborik | 837 | 359 | 365 | 724

What's with Gaborik?

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

^ bad intel

 

[Captain Bowie]

Bump.

You can now submit your Top 60 Canucks lists to me via PM. The Deadline will be Sunday, January 18th at 6:00pm PST.

Might as well get this going, if for no other reason than to see who is actually interested in doing the project.

Anyone interested in participating and hasn't already done so, please review the first post for the rules and format, then take a quick look through this thread.

 

[Regal]

Bump.

You can now submit your Top 60 Canucks lists to me via PM. The Deadline will be Sunday, January 18th at 6:00pm PST.

Might as well get this going, if for no other reason than to see who is actually interested in doing the project.

Anyone interested in participating and hasn't already done so, please review the first post for the rules and format, then take a quick look through this thread.

I wonder if members of the history board would be interested in participating. They might not be fans, but some of them have more knowledge of the 70s and 80s guys and it could help prop up the numbers.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

to get the ball rolling--

in alphabetical order, here's the bottom half of my list, plus names from this thread that i didn't consider but maybe should:

aucoin
babych
blight
boldirev
j. brown
butcher
cassels
cooke
d. cloutier
diduck
fraser
gelinas
gould
guevremont
halward
hansen
hlinka
kearns
lanz
lever
l. lindgren
malhotra
mitchell
momesso
morrison
oddleifson
odjick
pederson
reinhart
rota
ruutu
m. samuelsson
schmautz
sedlbauer
skriko
g. smith
sundstrom
tallon
tanev
ververgaert
williams

bolded are guys where my placements are basically just looking at stats and guessing

italics are guys who probably weren't around long enough to make my list

as i start doing research, i'll try to start posting what i find about the bolded guys. but others are invited to join in, of course.

 

[Regal]

Am I the only.one who doesn't consider Jeff Brown having too much of a case here. I know he was seen as a bit of a missing piece in '94, but he was basically a guy who was here post-trade deadline in '94, the lockout year, then traded early the follow on year, playing 11, 33 and 28 games with the team in the regular season.

 

[Alan Jackson]

I've not any completed any sort of formal list yet, but I think I have my top 10 more or less set. In no particular order, you've got the twins, McLean and Luongo, the 4 retired numbers and I think Gradin and Kesler might get in there, too. We'll see.

Looking at the next tier of guys, say 10 through 30 or so, things start getting a little bit trickier. In terms of defenders, you've got Ohlund, Lumme, Jovanovski, Kearns, Snepsts and then guys like Lidster and Salo and Babych. I have a feeling I might be ranking Harold a bit higher than some.

In terms of forwards, I'm thinking a couple of the key guys from 94 will mostly fall in this range: Ronning, Adams for sure, I think. Maybe Geoff Courtnall. I think the remainder of the West Coast Express probably slots in this range, too. Obviously Mogilny, and Boudrias and Tanti and possibly Skriko, Lever, Rota and Sundstrom are contenders here. Vervegart and Oddleifson are guys I don't know much about, but the numbers probably fall right in this range, too. I'm thinking Burrows is the only current Canuck forward that gets consideration here, but then I haven't yet given much thought yet to where Edler and Bieksa slide in. Richard Brodeur probably finds a spot in there somewhere.

After that, things get even more interesting. I'm just thinking out loud here, but do you guys see a name there that doesn't belong in the top 30-35ish range? Am I missing anybody obvious?

 

[Barney Gumble]

Am I the only.one who doesn't consider Jeff Brown having too much of a case here.

Especially when one considers "rumor" that we shouldn't be talking about here.

 

[Hardyvan123]

Especially when one considers "rumor" that we shouldn't be talking about here.

Ya Jeff brown doesn't get any bonus points for team intangibles does he.

that being said I doubt he makes my list, or Kirk McLeans for that matter.

 

[Regal]

I've not any completed any sort of formal list yet, but I think I have my top 10 more or less set. In no particular order, you've got the twins, McLean and Luongo, the 4 retired numbers and I think Gradin and Kesler might get in there, too. We'll see.

Looking at the next tier of guys, say 10 through 30 or so, things start getting a little bit trickier. In terms of defenders, you've got Ohlund, Lumme, Jovanovski, Kearns, Snepsts and then guys like Lidster and Salo and Babych. I have a feeling I might be ranking Harold a bit higher than some.

In terms of forwards, I'm thinking a couple of the key guys from 94 will mostly fall in this range: Ronning, Adams for sure, I think. Maybe Geoff Courtnall. I think the remainder of the West Coast Express probably slots in this range, too. Obviously Mogilny, and Boudrias and Tanti and possibly Skriko, Lever, Rota and Sundstrom are contenders here. Vervegart and Oddleifson are guys I don't know much about, but the numbers probably fall right in this range, too. I'm thinking Burrows is the only current Canuck forward that gets consideration here, but then I haven't yet given much thought yet to where Edler and Bieksa slide in. Richard Brodeur probably finds a spot in there somewhere.

After that, things get even more interesting. I'm just thinking out loud here, but do you guys see a name there that doesn't belong in the top 30-35ish range? Am I missing anybody obvious?

I think that's generally where the cutoff for the definites is, though I'm not too sure on Vervegart and Oddleifson either. The only other one I'd say is probably Kurtenbach, who I'm struggling with where to place, but I feel has to be in a top 40 somewhere.


What are people's thoughts on Garth Butcher? The longevity is tough to ignore, but was he ever good enough to really warrant a spot?

 

[Hardyvan123]

are we emailing in our top 40 or top 60?

 

[Captain Bowie]

are we emailing in our top 40 or top 60?

PM your top 60 to me.

 

[Captain Bowie]

Well... 3 days and no lists submitted. Should I be worried?

 

[Regal]

Well... 3 days and no lists submitted. Should I be worried?

If anyone else is like me, they'll procrastinate and tinker until near the deadline

 

[Barney Gumble]

If anyone else is like me, they'll procrastinate and tinker until near the deadline

Same here....I'm making no promises but I'll try and work out my list.