Top 40 Canucks of All-Time Preliminary Discussion Thread - Lists Now Being Accepted

[MS]

i had cooke at 55 in an earlier draft, hansen has been around 45-50 this whole time for me.

i think in a vacuum they are pretty much the same player, actually. maybe cooke looked better for his spell with naslund and morrison than hansen has with the sedins, but basically both are good third line wings who forecheck very well, and PK. there are small differences: hansen gets pushed around less, but also doesn't draw penalties as effectively. but that gap between 47 and 61, which is actually a pretty small gap all told, is because hansen played on teams that did something; cooke didn't. not necessarily cooke's fault, but still. for this project, if i had basically the same guy but one contributed to a team that made a deep run and the other didn't, i'd go with the guy whose efforts resulted in success, even if the difference was really just circumstance.

all that said, cooke was solidly on my list in the 50s, but then i sort of just lazily couldn't figure out who did what between blight, gould, and sedlbauer and put them all at the bottom and pushed cooke out. the previous discussion about him by hardyvan might also have swayed me.

Cooke and Hansen were comparable offensively, but Cooke was a superior defensive player (top-10 in Selke voting one year) and physical player, and played a couple full seasons more as a Canuck.

Disagree that Cooke was 'pushed around'. There is a lot of revisionist history on his time here ... he was one of our most popular players for 5+ years and a machine in terms of physical play and finishing checks.

 

[Hardyvan123]

Just based on some of the comments here I feel like Cooke has been underrated. Very similar to Hansen. I think I had him in the mid 40s

Both guys missed my list, although I guess some argument could be made that they are in the 50-60 range but I doubt they come up for discussion in any actual top 40 list.

I was talking with a guy today, after quickly doing a list yesterday and he mentioned that I left off both Hanlon and Willie Mitchell, although neither guy had a legit place in my top 40.

I still can't get how guys like Hansen and Cooke can make it on lists and Barry Pederson gets left off.

The guy is still in the top 40 scorers of all time Cancuks and it's not like his Game by game impact is really low either.

 

[kmad]

I just woke up from a long nap, I hope I can still submit my list?!

 

[Captain Bowie]

I have received 7 lists, including my own that is 8. I am willing to go ahead with that, as long as everyone is willing to be active in the discussion stages every round.

My first step is quality assurance. Just to make sure that any glaring omissions aren't simple errors, and/or any outside the box placements can be logically defended or argued. The time this takes will fully depend on how many lists/placements need clarification and how long it takes to get adequate responses.

After that, it will just come down to tabulating the results and getting the first discussion thread underway.

Everyone will received a PM letting you know it is accepted or clarification needed. If you do not get one in the next 1 or 2 days, post in this thread that you have submitted a list and I will double check.

In the mean time, please continue the debates in this thread, but please do try to refrain from ranking players outright in this thread.

And if anyone is working on their lists still, or want to submit one, please post in this thread and give an idea how long until you are able to submit. The more the merrier.

 

[kmad]

I had Edler/Bieksa/Lidster in that order, pretty close to each other. Anyone else?

 

[Regal]

Both guys missed my list, although I guess some argument could be made that they are in the 50-60 range but I doubt they come up for discussion in any actual top 40 list.

I was talking with a guy today, after quickly doing a list yesterday and he mentioned that I left off both Hanlon and Willie Mitchell, although neither guy had a legit place in my top 40.

I still can't get how guys like Hansen and Cooke can make it on lists and Barry Pederson gets left off.

The guy is still in the top 40 scorers of all time Cancuks and it's not like his Game by game impact is really low either.

I put Pederson on, but Cooke and Hansen's longevity is tough to ignore. They also played a big role in two of the three bestimes periods in team.history. I had Mitchell around McCarthy. Maybe I had him too high by the sounds of others though. I guess in the end we all seem pretty set on around 35 or so guys so really the debate for most of these guys likely won't come up much for those final 5 spots or so

 

[Captain Bowie]

I have done a quick check of every list submitted, but only for clerical errors rather than quality assurance. A few with players being lists twice, and 1 with only 59 players listed have been notified. Please fix these issues ASAP so I can move on to the next step and we can get the whole thing moving along.

If you have not received a response yet, I will start the next step probably tomorrow night so expect something back from me in the next two nights.

Thanks again to everyone who took the time to make a list. This project is going to be a lot of fun!

 

[Barney Gumble]

I have done a quick check of every list submitted, but only for clerical errors rather than quality assurance. A few with players being lists twice, and 1 with only 59 players listed have been notified. Please fix these issues ASAP so I can move on to the next step and we can get the whole thing moving along.

If you have not received a response yet, I will start the next step probably tomorrow night so expect something back from me in the next two nights.

Thanks again to everyone who took the time to make a list. This project is going to be a lot of fun!

Dang....can't believe I was so careless. Sorry about that.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

I had Edler/Bieksa/Lidster in that order, pretty close to each other. Anyone else?

i have jovo, salo, bieksa, edler butcher, lidster all consecutive.

 

[kmad]

i have jovo, salo, bieksa, edler butcher, lidster all consecutive.

I have Salo way higher, closer to Lumme/Hamhuis, Jovo a little higher, and Butcher a little bit below

 

[Alan Jackson]

I'm a little unsure of my rankings later in the list, but wanted to get a list in and figured the rankings will be sorted out in the voting stage.

Should make for an interesting discussion.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

I have Salo way higher, closer to Lumme/Hamhuis, Jovo a little higher, and Butcher a little bit below

i had 7 spots separating lumme from jovo, 11 spots separating hamhuis from jovo.

salo was tough because he was so good at his best, and he was here for so long. but you really couldn't count on him to be the rock that his play suggested he should be (i.e., your steadying 1a defender, à la hamhuis or ohlund) because he'd get hurt and then you'd have to turn your roster upside down to fill the hole.

also, i have a significant gap between salo and bieksa, and edler and butcher, but they are consecutive because i didn't have anyone's careers as canucks fitting into those gaps. so it looks a lot closer (jovo to lidster) than it really is.

all that said, i think i like butcher a lot more than maybe others do.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

Cooke and Hansen were comparable offensively, but Cooke was a superior defensive player (top-10 in Selke voting one year) and physical player, and played a couple full seasons more as a Canuck.

Disagree that Cooke was 'pushed around'. There is a lot of revisionist history on his time here ... he was one of our most popular players for 5+ years and a machine in terms of physical play and finishing checks.

i noticed that top ten selke finish when i was going through his h-r page, which i'll be honest: totally surprised me. i really don't remember cooke being any better as a PKer than hansen has been. that 9th place selke finish is based on 3 first place votes and 1 fifth place vote. without knowing who cast those ballots, i wonder how much his 4 SHG factored, or also whether these were homer vancouver writers; but either way, 4 votes, even with 3 first place ones, isn't super significant is it?

as for "pushed around," i don't mean that cooke was weak or that he lost physical battles. because you're right: he was a fearless hitter and he hit hard. he was a guy you'd throw out there to wake up the team, and that was a very valuable role that he played because those crawford canucks were one hell of a sleepy complacent gutless team. but i do think hansen, while less of an agitator and certainly less of a "let's go boys" type of player, is stronger on the puck and stronger off the puck. he doesn't kill guys as often, but i think he comes out of the corners with the puck more often.

and cooke started a lot of stuff that neither he nor the team finished. not necessarily cooke's job to finish what he started, but i think hansen's contributions accomplished more in the context of what his team needed him to do.

but then maybe the issue here isn't so much that i'm underrating cooke but that i really like hansen?

and question for MS: do you have cooke higher or lower than fraser/rota/schmautz?

 

[MS]

i noticed that top ten selke finish when i was going through his h-r page, which i'll be honest: totally surprised me. i really don't remember cooke being any better as a PKer than hansen has been. that 9th place selke finish is based on 3 first place votes and 1 fifth place vote. without knowing who cast those ballots, i wonder how much his 4 SHG factored, or also whether these were homer vancouver writers; but either way, 4 votes, even with 3 first place ones, isn't super significant is it?

as for "pushed around," i don't mean that cooke was weak or that he lost physical battles. because you're right: he was a fearless hitter and he hit hard. he was a guy you'd throw out there to wake up the team, and that was a very valuable role that he played because those crawford canucks were one hell of a sleepy complacent gutless team. but i do think hansen, while less of an agitator and certainly less of a "let's go boys" type of player, is stronger on the puck and stronger off the puck. he doesn't kill guys as often, but i think he comes out of the corners with the puck more often.

and cooke started a lot of stuff that neither he nor the team finished. not necessarily cooke's job to finish what he started, but i think hansen's contributions accomplished more in the context of what his team needed him to do.

but then maybe the issue here isn't so much that i'm underrating cooke but that i really like hansen?

and question for MS: do you have cooke higher or lower than fraser/rota/schmautz?

I have Cooke very slightly ahead of Rota and Schmautz and 10 spots ahead of Fraser. I can definitely see the argument for having a couple of those guys slightly higher, though. And might change my viewpoint as we go along on that front.

At the time, I felt that Cooke was severely under-rated in Selke voting (much like Burrows later on, who I actually felt was a better defensive player than Kesler) because a) he was a winger, and b) people didn't like him. He was our top PK forward on excellent PK units for several seasons, anchored our checking line, and was an outstanding defensive forward. Would take him over Hansen easily in that regard (not that Hansen is poor).

Disagree completely that Hansen was stronger on or off the puck. Cooke is built like a tank and has always been a bull in puck battles.

 

[Hardyvan123]

I put Pederson on, but Cooke and Hansen's longevity is tough to ignore. They also played a big role in two of the three bestimes periods in team.history. I had Mitchell around McCarthy. Maybe I had him too high by the sounds of others though. I guess in the end we all seem pretty set on around 35 or so guys so really the debate for most of these guys likely won't come up much for those final 5 spots or so

Big role? not so sure about that.

damn I totally forgot about Kevin McCarthy for my top 60 list but not really sure if he could even crack my top 40 and I liked him when he played for us.

I also missed Sundstrom and slotted him in too low on my list, which was rushed as I was waiting for a phone call for work.

 

[Captain Bowie]

I have now sent confirmations for every list that I have received.

If you submitted a list and did not get a reply, please resend and post here that you did so.

Shortly I will post this first discussion thread.

 

[Regal]

I have now sent confirmations for every list that I have received.

If you submitted a list and did not get a reply, please resend and post here that you did so.

Shortly I will post this first discussion thread.

I pushed send on a list on Saturday morning, but no idea what happened as it's not showing up in my sent messages. I'll send it again.