Top 20 Prospects List

ReginKarlssonLehner

Let's Win It All
May 3, 2010
40,765
11,060
Dubai Marina
I think Wiercioch is playing like a #4 right now, or close to it. Putting good numbers on a low scoring team. Not really making mistakes out there defensively either.

I don't think Prince has 1st line potential, and I doubt you think that either. #3-4 D is at least = to 2nd line winger. Wiercicoh is more of a sure thing.

:dunno:

To say Wiercioch hasn't made mistakes defensively is to really speak highly of him. He is still very raw on the defensive spectra of the game. He has shown some good flashes but he's below average/slightly average at this point and time, imo.
 
Nov 16, 2007
15,705
2
in your head
To say Wiercioch hasn't made mistakes defensively is to really speak highly of him. He is still very raw on the defensive spectra of the game. He has shown some good flashes but he's below average/slightly average at this point and time, imo.

Agreed 100%.

He's a guy who still needs his ice time to be sheltered because of being overwhelmed at times in the defensive zone. He's a rookie, that's not unusual. To say he plays 'mistake free' is asinine though. He makes some really iffy plays in the Dzone almost every game.
 

WhiteLight*

Guest
To say Wiercioch hasn't made mistakes defensively is to really speak highly of him. He is still very raw on the defensive spectra of the game. He has shown some good flashes but he's below average/slightly average at this point and time, imo.

He's made some, but they're not glaring. I'd say he's average defensively but I'm cool with him playing against scoring lines 5-on-5.
 

WhiteLight*

Guest
Agreed 100%.

He's a guy who still needs his ice time to be sheltered because of being overwhelmed at times in the defensive zone. He's a rookie, that's not unusual. To say he plays 'mistake free' is asinine though. He makes some really iffy plays in the Dzone almost every game.

no more than Gryba. Wiercioch has been just as good defensively as Gryba if not better. I find his positioning and stick work to be better than Gryba's.
 

ReginKarlssonLehner

Let's Win It All
May 3, 2010
40,765
11,060
Dubai Marina
no more than Gryba. Wiercioch has been just as good defensively as Gryba if not better. I find his positioning and stick work to be better than Gryba's.

Ok, now you're just reaching. Gryba plays against much tougher competition and Gryba is relied on for his defensive side and there's a reason he is always racking up 20+ minutes in comparison to Wier.

Wiercioch has made some glaring mistakes from time-to-time. If he hasn't he'd be playing over 20+ minutes because his offensive game has been on point and nothing should be holding him back from being the best defender on this team.

It's kind of obvious to see, no?
 

WhiteLight*

Guest
He turns the puck over pretty often when they come at him physically. I'd like to see him engage physically more in the Dzone.

:dunno:

every single Sens d-man has more giveaways than Wiercioch.

Yes he's not very physical and could improve in that regard (has the frame), but it's still not a necessary skill to be successful.
 
Nov 16, 2007
15,705
2
in your head
:dunno:

every single Sens d-man has more giveaways than Wiercioch.

Yes he's not very physical and could improve in that regard (has the frame), but it's still not a necessary skill to be successful.

Its not the quantity, its the quality of turnovers. He tends to turn it over in some of the worst spots on the ice. I hate arguing with people who only stat watch.
 

WhiteLight*

Guest
Ok, now you're just reaching. Gryba plays against much tougher competition and Gryba is relied on for his defensive side and there's a reason he is always racking up 20+ minutes in comparison to Wier.

Wiercioch has made some glaring mistakes from time-to-time. If he hasn't he'd be playing over 20+ minutes because his offensive game has been on point and nothing should be holding him back from being the best defender on this team.

It's kind of obvious to see, no?

That's the thing, I disagree with the ice time distribution.

Wier - Gonch should play against top lines (as they did during the winning streak)
Methot - Gryba should play against 2nd lines.


Sometimes Gryba just looks overwhelmed. I like him and all but his positioning is bad at times and certainly makes more mistakes than Wiercioch with the puck.

Gryba gets scored on at even strength every game. That's a lot. Not Wiercioch.

Wiercioch deserves more ice time.
 

WhiteLight*

Guest
Its not the quantity, its the quality of turnovers. He tends to turn it over in some of the worst spots on the ice. I hate arguing with people who only stat watch.

I don't only stat watch. I watch games and I haven't found turnovers to be a problem. No more than other defensemen.
 
Nov 16, 2007
15,705
2
in your head
If I were the other team's top line, I would dream about playing against Gonchar/Wiercioch every shift. Play the body on them and you get the puck pretty easily.
 

WhiteLight*

Guest
If I were the other team's top line, I would dream about playing against Gonchar/Wiercioch every shift. Play the body on them and you get the puck pretty easily.

I specifically remember the MTL and TOR wins during the win streak. That was the pair against the 1st line and they did awesome.
 

FolignoQuantumLeap

Don't Hold The Door
Mar 16, 2009
31,084
7,399
Ottawa
Lehner (Best goaltender, player and overall potential)
Zibanejad (Best forward)
Ceci (Best defenseman)
Noesen
Stone
Prince
Da Costa
Hoffman
Claesson
Borowiecki
Wikstrand (Biggest Riser)
Pageau
Puempel
Dzingel
Dreidger
Cowick
Schneider (most underrated)
Grant
Sdao
Petersson (biggest faller, mostly due to injury)

HM: to McCormick and Wideman

Graduates: Wiercioch and Silfverberg
 

Lazarrr

Registered User
Apr 10, 2010
1,399
0
Ottawa
1. Robin Lehner
2. Mika Zibanejad
3. Jakob Silfverberg
4. Patrick Wiercioch
5. Mark Stone
6. Stephane Da Costa
7. Cody Ceci
8. Stefan Noesen
9. Eric Gryba
10. Shane Prince

11. Matt Puempel
12. Mike Hoffman
13. Mark Borowiecki
14. Jean-Gabriel Pageau
15. Derek Grant
16. David Dziurzynski
17. Andre Petersson
18. Mikael Wikstrand
19. Ryan Dzingel
20. Corey Cowick

21. Michael Sdao
22. Fredrik Claesson
23. Chris Driedger
24. Cole Schneider
25. Ben Blood
25. Jeff Costello
26. Jarrod Maidens

Put Weircioch because I think he's going to be a great NHL'er for many years to come.

Put Cowick on the top 20 cause he has really carried the load this season and looks like he could have a possible future in the NHL.

Everybody seems to right off Cole Schneider, however seems like a legit NHL prospect.

Jarrod Maidens hasn't even played this year, so that's why he's last.

Prince/Pageau have been great for Bingo since the callups and injuries. Don't expect a shot from the big club, but could seem them getting some time in the NHL next year.

Dreiger seems like a really goalie prospect and I'd like to see what he can do with better competition.

Finally anyone know when Sdao will sign and start playing with Bingo?
 

BonkTastic

ಠ_ಠ
Nov 9, 2010
30,901
10,092
Parts Unknown
they have starbucks in indonesia? awesome

Yeah. They're pretty prevalent in the wealthier areas of Jakarta, and most of the major malls have one.

However, Jakarta is where all the money is... once you leave the city, there's not much. For instance, I live in a city with over a million people in it, and we have one Starbucks. It is located in the one "western" mall in town. It's pretty much an expat petting zoo, for all intents and purposes.


I think Wiercioch is playing like a #4 right now, or close to it. Putting good numbers on a low scoring team. Not really making mistakes out there defensively either.

I don't think Prince has 1st line potential, and I doubt you think that either. #3-4 D is at least = to 2nd line winger. Wiercicoh is more of a sure thing.

:dunno:

Getting back to this: I don't think Prince will be a 1st liner at the moment, but I'd say the way he's improving with every game, and the combination of his skill AND ridiculous drive, he'll be a very good 2nd liner. Am I perhaps too high on Prince? Possibly... I just think he has more drive right now than any other prospect in the system save for Boro, but he's a heck of a lot more skilled. That combo of skill + a fire lit under his arse leaves me to believe he's going to be a heck of a player.

The thing is, I don't have a great impression of Weircioch. I mean, he's absolutely had an incredible year compared to his past two, credit where credit is due. If you'd have asked me last year, I'd say he was going to end up a "tweener", a guy who got under 100 career NHL games before moving on to Europe. He's had a fantastic rebound year, and I think the work he's put into his game (a work ethic I thought was nonexistant in years past, mind you) has paid off huge. He's an NHL defenceman.

I don't know, I guess I just don't see him as much more than the offensive half of a bottom pairing guy who is good enough to fill in on the 2nd pairing when needed, and I don't think he has much more upside than what he's currently showing. I think he can top out as a #4 defenceman, if he can fix some of his defensive miscues.

And "defensive miscues" is a good segue into my major criticism: I really don't like his defensive awareness. You said he has the fewest giveaways of any Sens defenceman (except Lundin and Boro, but of course they're part-timers and don't count), but you also forget that he's dead last among Sens defencemen in TOI, so he hasn't had the opportunity to commit as many turnovers. Up his icetime 2-3 mins a game and stop giving him sheltered minutes, and I guarantee you see that number rise.

Also: this is a Prospects list. I'm basing Prince over Weir based on upside, and the chance I think Prince hits his upside (I'm more confident about Prince being a 2nd liner than Puempel, for instance). Weir's clearly the better player right now, but I'm also not putting Daugavins ahead of Noesen on the organization's priority list (nor would any sane person).

I think he's doing OK filling in right now with all our injuries, but I just don't see enough in his game to keep him at the spot he's currently in. I like him. I hope he succeeds, I just don't see him ever becoming a #3 guy, ever. Defencemen develop slower, so he's got that on his side for sure. I'm not betting against the kid, because I want to see him do well, but I just think he's going to fill a Tom Preissing type role for us (without the 40+ point seasons, mind you): guy who can have his minutes managed on the 3rd line, log some PP time, and step up into a top 4 role as needed without the coach sweating too much about it. If he can find a clue defensively, he can be that #4 guy.

Hope he becomes the top guy on a 2nd pairing, though. I'd love for my gut call to be proven wrong.
 
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WhiteLight*

Guest
Getting back to this: I don't think Prince will be a 1st liner at the moment, but I'd say the way he's improving with every game, and the combination of his skill AND ridiculous drive, he'll be a very good 2nd liner. Am I perhaps too high on Prince? Possibly... I just think he has more drive right now than any other prospect in the system save for Boro, but he's a heck of a lot more skilled. That combo of skill + a fire lit under his arse leaves me to believe he's going to be a heck of a player.

I really like Prince. Very good 2nd liner is his top end I think. But if it doesn't work out, he could play on the 3rd line.

The thing is, I don't have a great impression of Weircioch. I mean, he's absolutely had an incredible year compared to his past two, credit where credit is due. If you'd have asked me last year, I'd say he was going to end up a "tweener", a guy who got under 100 career NHL games before moving on to Europe. He's had a fantastic rebound year, and I think the work he's put into his game (a work ethic I thought was nonexistant in years past, mind you) has paid off huge. He's an NHL defenceman.

Agreed

I don't know, I guess I just don't see him as much more than the offensive half of a bottom pairing guy who is good enough to fill in on the 2nd pairing when needed, and I don't think he has much more upside than what he's currently showing. I think he can top out as a #4 defenceman, if he can fix some of his defensive miscues.

And "defensive miscues" is a good segue into my major criticism: I really don't like his defensive awareness. You said he has the fewest giveaways of any Sens defenceman (except Lundin and Boro, but of course they're part-timers and don't count), but you also forget that he's dead last among Sens defencemen in TOI, so he hasn't had the opportunity to commit as many turnovers. Up his icetime 2-3 mins a game and stop giving him sheltered minutes, and I guarantee you see that number rise.

He plays sheltered minutes, but he doesn't deserve it. In the games he doesn't play sheltered, he plays well. Yeah his giveaway number would rise if given more ice time but giveaways are no more a problem for him than other defensemen.

Wiercioch plays solid defensively for the most part, when i watch him. and the stats back it up. He gives up the least amount of goals among Sens D-men, total and per ice time. Gryba gives up almost 3x as many goals per ice time than Wiercioch. Wiercioch definitely deserves more ice time.

His point totals are VERY good for a low scoring team.

I mean if Wiercioch is 3rd pair, so are Gryba, Phillips and Benoit. Methot and Gonchar are 2nd pair. How is it possible that the Sens are in a playoff position? How is it possible that they've given like the 3rd least amount of goals in the league or whatever it is?

I think you're underrating Wiercioch defensively. He rarely gets scored on and at the very least deserves to test his stuff against scoring lines consistently.

Also: this is a Prospects list. I'm basing Prince over Weir based on upside, and the chance I think Prince hits his upside (I'm more confident about Prince being a 2nd liner than Puempel, for instance). Weir's clearly the better player right now, but I'm also not putting Daugavins ahead of Noesen on the organization's priority list (nor would any sane person).

I think he's doing OK filling in right now with all our injuries, but I just don't see enough in his game to keep him at the spot he's currently in. I like him. I hope he succeeds, I just don't see him ever becoming a #3 guy, ever. Defencemen develop slower, so he's got that on his side for sure. I'm not betting against the kid, because I want to see him do well, but I just think he's going to fill a Tom Preissing type role for us (without the 40+ point seasons, mind you): guy who can have his minutes managed on the 3rd line, log some PP time, and step up into a top 4 role as needed without the coach sweating too much about it. If he can find a clue defensively, he can be that #4 guy.

Hope he becomes the top guy on a 2nd pairing, though. I'd love for my gut call to be proven wrong.

That player you're describing, he's already there. 3rd pair who plays PP and fills in the top 4 with injuries. He's doing that, and very well. He can improve still.
 

SenzZen

RIP, GOAT
Jan 31, 2011
16,935
6,038
Ottawa


I wouldn't classify this as a case of terrible defending- if that's why it was posted.

The whole group had been on for 50 seconds to the point where PW loses the race with McClement (on the boards).

Then Turris loses a battle with Kulemin, turns the wrong way to still recover, and the puck slides into the slot where McClement finds the 7 hole on Bishop- after PW lost him as a mark at the 56 second mark of the shift.

PW needs to work on his strength. This is pretty widely accepted.
 

YNWA14

Onbreekbaar
Dec 29, 2010
34,543
2,560
I think PW moved way too high in the zone at that point. He shouldn't be chasing the puck that far. Yes, that's a bad defensive play.

Anyway...my list (not including Silfverberg, Zibanejad and Wierchioch as they are all NHL "regulars" at this point):

1. Lehner
2. Ceci
3. Prince
4. Stone
5. Noesen

6. Da Costa
7. Hoffman
8. Borowiecki
9. Claesson
10. Maidens
 

SenzZen

RIP, GOAT
Jan 31, 2011
16,935
6,038
Ottawa
I think PW moved way too high in the zone at that point. He shouldn't be chasing the puck that far. Yes, that's a bad play.

For one, he was attempting to stay with his man- not "chasing the puck". He failed at that and yes that is a bad play. Never said it wasn't.

But fatigue doesn't just hit players in their body, it affects decision-making as well.

You can find any time a player is on for a goal against and scrutinize their contribution, but if the puck hits Bishop instead of going in- you'll never see the play again.

Good play? No. Example of PW's (in)ability to defend. Don't think so. Tired player at the end of a shift? I'd say so.
 

Holdurbreathe

Registered User
Jun 22, 2006
8,550
2
Ontario
So I'm just using this comment as a segue: Am I the only one here that would put Prince FIRMLY in our top-7? I mean, other guys are closer to the NHL than he is due to age, but I have him right after Noesen on the top list.

My Top 10
1) Lehner
2) Zibanejad
3) Silf
4) Ceci
5) Stone
6) Noesen
7) Prince
8) Weircioch
9) Puempel
10) Da Costa (Though he's going to get knocked out of the top-10 real soon, IMO)

I'll give Gryba an honorable mention here, but dude's almost 25. I have a hard time calling him a prospect anymore...

Maybe the criteria should be set before discussing lists.

Here's how I rank them.

1) Lehner
2) Zibanejad
3) Silfverberg
4) Prince
5) Wiercoich
6) Ceci
7) Noesen
8) Stone
9) Puempel
10) Da Costa

Honorable mention:
JG Pageau really like his skills and compete level
F Claesson been impressed with his ability and growth.
 

Holdurbreathe

Registered User
Jun 22, 2006
8,550
2
Ontario
I wouldn't classify this as a case of terrible defending- if that's why it was posted.

The whole group had been on for 50 seconds to the point where PW loses the race with McClement (on the boards).

Then Turris loses a battle with Kulemin, turns the wrong way to still recover, and the puck slides into the slot where McClement finds the 7 hole on Bishop- after PW lost him as a mark at the 56 second mark of the shift.

PW needs to work on his strength. This is pretty widely accepted.

PW did the right thing by pursuing his man high up the wall in the D zone, there was no mistake there. MacLean likes to pressure using his D to limit the cycle back on the side wall.

The problem started when Michalek decided to cutoff McClement who was already dumping the puck back into the zone along the wall.

The net effect, PW was trapped on the inside and couldn't continue to follow McClement and another Leaf is open in the zone.

Possibly PW should have switched-off McClement and returned to the net, only the coached knows for sure.

However if he should have switched-off, McClement became Michalek responsibility and he didn't sustain coverage .

Of course the fact that Kulemin owned Turris didn't help.

On that play there were a series of mistakes or poor decisions, only the coaches know if PW was one of them.
 

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