Top 20 non-NHL players all-time

[VMBM]

Not meaning this to be a HOHHOF thread per se, but it might be useful to list the players who you think are the best non-NHL players of all-time. I took the "non-NHL" very literally, so no KLM, Fetisov, Kasatonov, Balderis, Hlinka, Novy, Sterner etc. even though their 'claim to fame' are rather their international/national careers. There might be some omissions/brain farts.

1. Valery Kharlamov
2. Anatoly Firsov
3. Vladislav Tretiak
4. Boris Mikhailov
5. Jiri Holecek
6. Alexander Maltsev
7. Vladimir Petrov
8. Vladimir Martinec
9. Vyacheslav Starshinov
10. Valery Vasiliev
11. Vsevolod Bobrov
12. Jan Suchy
13. Frantisek Pospisil
14. Alexander Yakushev
15. Sven Tumba
16. Alexander Ragulin
17. Vladimir Zabrodsky
18. Jiri Holik
19. Nikolai Sologubov
20. Venjamin Alexandrov

Honorable mention (in no particular order):
Erich Kühnhackl, Lasse Oksanen, Pekka Marjamäki, Jorma Valtonen, Vitaly Davydov, Sergei Kapustin, Vladimir Shadrin, Vladimir Vikulov, Vyacheslav Bykov, Andrey Khomutov, Viktor Konovalenko, Vladimir Dzurilla, Oldrich Machac, Josef Malecek, Bohumil Modry, Vlastimil Bubnik, Vincent Lukac, Lennart Svedberg, Mats Waltin, Leif Holmqvist, Nils Nilsson...

Click to read more...

 

[kmad]

Vlad Dzurilla, Nikolai Sologubov, ...Tony Hand?

 

[ES]

Still active player from a small hockey country, but look at those stats. British League is not a great league, but 2.5 points per game at the age of 43.

http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=20964

Only a short visit outside Britain, three games in WHL back in 1986-87, 4 goals and 4 assists.

 

[VMBM]

Vlad Dzurilla, Nikolai Sologubov, ...Tony Hand?

Dzurilla (HM) and Sologubov (#19) I did have there. Mr. Hand, yep, forgot about him

 

[VMBM]

Peter "Pekka" Lindmark should be there (honorable mention)

 

[jkrx]

Peter "Pekka" Lindmark should be there (honorable mention)

Both him and "Honken" should be considered.

Edit: Sorry, I missed out on "Honken" in your HM list.

 

[unknown33]

Cyclone Taylor?

 

[begbeee]

Jozef Golonka
He should be somewhere there for sure (HM).
This is quite a hyperbole, but Golonka definetly was elite player.

Golonka is the Slovak Ice Hockey Legend of the late 1950s and the 1960s. In the early 1960s he was valued as Europe's most gifted player and his 298 scored goals in 330 confrontations in the CSSR national league and 82 goals accumulated during 134 games in the national team bear record to his prowess as hockey crack.

"If he had the chance to play the NHL, he had been a Star as Wayne Gretzky was" said the baron of sports journalism George Gross a decade ago about Jozef Golonka.

During a match against the powerful CSKA Moscow in 1957 Golonka's line was set up against legendary Russian crack Vsevolod Bobrov. Golonka sporting 60 kilograms that time bodychecked the 90 kilogram Bobrov so fierce and delicate that the Russian star nearly left the ice over the boards.

Golonka was very balanced all-round talent, he was apt in all facets of the game. He was creative, fast, technically able and strong. And he had a great tactical understanding of what was going on, or had to go on during the game. Anytime needed it was him setting the tone for the course in the game. The fans loved his self confident and provocative style and he was often called Muhammed Ali on skates.

The Swedish press found the following words for Golonkas performance: "There's a player amongst the CSSR team, his name is Golonka. One can only talk in words of superlatives about him. He is the Pele on ice, the Caruso on the puck, the Boticelli with the hockey stick, he is the only player in the tournament able to play the puck full speed skating backwards in unmatched precision. He's slogging without end, wrestles the puck from his opponents, he attacks, he defends, he directs the course of play, he assists and he scores by himself..."

Russian national trainer Tarasov: "If I had a player like Golonka, I'd take the WM title one hundred percent..."

Jozef Golonka is offical member of the Slovak, the German and the IIHF Hall of Fame.

 

[VMBM]

Jozef Golonka
He should be somewhere there for sure (HM).This is quite a hyperbole, but Golonka definetly was elite player.

Absolutely. And thanks for the bio.

 

[VMBM]

Cyclone Taylor?

Heh. I guess I meant European "non-professional" (even though especially the Russians were no amateurs) players who never played in the NHL. But since I didn't express that very clearly, you are right.

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

Heh. I guess I meant European "non-professional" (even though especially the Russians were no amateurs) players who never played in the NHL. But since I didn't express that very clearly, you are right.

In that case, Hobey Baker.

 

[seventieslord]

It's a good list to start with. I personally don't see how such an exclusive list can have room for Dzurilla, Lindmark & Golonka. As great as they were, this is just a top-20.

Tony Hand, I'm not sure there's any way to truly compare to anyone that is a known quantity. My guess is that in north america he's a career minor leaguer, so he wouldn't get my vote.

Should Ragulin be before Suchy?

 

[Stray Wasp]

Tony Hand, I'm not sure there's any way to truly compare to anyone that is a known quantity. My guess is that in north america he's a career minor leaguer, so he wouldn't get my vote.

Hand assuredly had enough natural talent to reach the NHL, perhaps to earn a pension, but for the purposes of this list that in itself clearly isn't enough. It's a major stretch to see him as a career top 6 player, unlike other names cited.

 

[Slapshooter]

I believe that Erich Kühnhackl would have made a fine NHL career, had the time been different. As a big, tough sniper he would have adjusted to NHL game much better than many of those overhyped Soviet ballerinas.

6,5", 220+ lbs and PPG in World Championships. Carried (West) German hockey on his shoulders.

 

[begbeee]

It's a good list to start with. I personally don't see how such an exclusive list can have room for Dzurilla, Lindmark & Golonka. As great as they were, this is just a top-20.

True. But whole trio is HM worthy.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Surprised you of all people didn't include Jiri Lala as an HM. Definitely no room for him in the Top 20, though.

 

[begbeee]

I believe that Erich Kühnhackl would have made a fine NHL career, had the time been different. As a big, tough sniper he would have adjusted to NHL game much better than many of those overhyped Soviet ballerinas.

There were some Soviet players with very good physical game.

 

[justsomeguy]

Herb Carnegie

 

[BillyShoe1721]

Gennady Tsygankov and Vladimir Lutchenko deserve an HM at least.

 

[SharksAttack]

Urpo Ylönen.
http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=42857

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Gennady Tsygankov and Vladimir Lutchenko deserve an HM at least.

Good calls. Lutchenko in particular.

 

[crobro]

rudi hiti from slovenia

 

[Dreakmur]

Ronald Pettersson - IIHF Hall of Famer and 6x Swedish All-Star

Jiri Lala - IIHF Best Forward and great scorer

Jiri Krilak - Golden Stick winner

 

[VMBM]

It's a good list to start with. I personally don't see how such an exclusive list can have room for Dzurilla, Lindmark & Golonka. As great as they were, this is just a top-20.

Tony Hand, I'm not sure there's any way to truly compare to anyone that is a known quantity. My guess is that in north america he's a career minor leaguer, so he wouldn't get my vote.

Should Ragulin be before Suchy?

Dzurilla, Lindmark and Golonka are HM worthy (here), but I wouldn't make an effort trying to get them elected to HOHHOF, that's for sure. In fact, I might be wrong, but maybe only Kharlamov, Tretiak and possibly Mikhailov will be locks... but I'm looking forward to the arguments/debates; I will surely try my best to 'sell' players like Firsov, Maltsev, Holecek, Petrov, Martinec. We'll see.

If one puts emphasis on longevity, then Ragulin should absolutely be ahead of Suchy. I think Suchy, on the other hand, had clearly better peak. Tough comparison; two such different defensemen, style-wise and physically.

Surprised you of all people didn't include Jiri Lala as an HM. Definitely no room for him in the Top 20, though.

I'm a man of surprises!

Yes, he probably should get an HM. He achieved more in those 4-5 seasons (on top) than a few bigger names did during much longer international careers. Still a small mystery (from de Lala land).

 

[VMBM]

Good calls. Lutchenko in particular.

Outside Vasiliev (of course), the Soviet defensemen of the 1970s (Tsygankov, Lyapkin, Lutchenko, Gusev...) are tough ones for me to crack, so to speak; i.e. to put them in order. Have you or anyone studied them/compared them to one another or something like that? For example, why do you think that Lutchenko was better than Tsygankov and so forth?

Personally, I've seen enough games to conclude that I don't like Alexander Gusev very much, even though he played a few seasons behind the top line; too mistake-prone (for starters, look at the 1st goal of the CSSR-USSR game in the 1976 Winter Olympics, lol).