Flyers' History: Top 10s in Flyers history and other recollections

[BiggE]

I disagree that the rest of his time was unspectacular. He's scoring a ppg in 2001 without Lindros or LeClair and outscoring Brind'Amour from the time of the trade until he started breaking down.

Primeau as a Flyer 312 games, 87 goals, 213 points. Solid, not spectacular

Prior to 2004, 40 playoff games with the Flyers, 12 points. Again, nothing to get excited about. One good regular season and one great playoff run. Good, not great.

 

[Here4ThaLids]

Coffey is the most overrated player in history. When he came to the Flyers it was quite clear he had no idea how to play defense. And he wasn't that great on offense either. I remember Scotty Bowman talking to reporters about Coffey, saying he wasn't really that good at QBing the power play. He wasn't. While Coffey won a ton, his teams had this curious habit of trading him away and then winning Stanley Cups.

The only real competition Howe has for top defenseman of the 1980s is Ray Bourque.

I mean ... Denis Potvin, Rod Langway, Larry Robinson ... even get seven years of pre-prime Chelios, and comparable attackers in Larry Murphy and Al MacInnis. It's stiff competition.

 

[Kermit the Prog]

I mean ... Denis Potvin, Rod Langway, Larry Robinson ... even get seven years of pre-prime Chelios, and comparable attackers in Larry Murphy and Al MacInnis. It's stiff competition.

And as much as I hate to add this name - Scott Stevens.

 

[dragonoffrost]

And as much as I hate to add this name - Scott Stevens.

F HIM!

 

[baudib1]

I mean ... Denis Potvin, Rod Langway, Larry Robinson ... even get seven years of pre-prime Chelios, and comparable attackers in Larry Murphy and Al MacInnis. It's stiff competition.

Those are great players but it's pretty easy to slot them in behind two Hall of Famers, one of whom is top 3 at worst at the position, at their peak who played the entire decade.

 

[BiggE]

And now, to hopefully help us all forget last night's debacle in San Jose, here are the top 10 centers in Flyers history. For the record, I'm considering Giroux a center for this list. Same with Dave Poulin who started his career on LW and occasionally moved to the wing at various times throughout his career. Following the players name is GP/G/A/PTS. And away we go!

Honorable Mentions
Keith Primeau 312 87 126 213 - the 03-04 playoffs almost put him in the top 10
Peter Forsberg 100 30 85 115 - too small a sample size for Peter the Great
Jeff Carter 461 181 162 343 - just missed, the Flyers list of great centers is a deep one

10. Ken Linseman 269 73 184 257
Linseman was an undisciplined nasty f***, but he could play the game. His 53 points in only 41 playoff games puts him on this list. Linseman had very good wheels and skills, but his inability to stay out of the penalty box kept him from fully reaching his potential. Still, he was a very good player and a legit 1C for most of his first stint in Philly.

9. Mike Richards 453 133 216 349
Richards career certainly did not end well, but that doesn't lessen his impact as a Flyer. Richards was one of the best penalty killers in team history (hmm, possible future list there) and he put up very good offensive numbers. Looking back, Paul Holmgren moved him at just the right time, but overall, as a Flyer, he was an excellent player

8. Sean Couturier 616 143 229 372
When it's all said and done, Couts may move up a few spots on this list. One of the best shutdown players in team history, he has blossomed into a legit 1C. Couturier is also a top notch penalty killer and faceoff man. It's hard to believe that he's only turning 27 this season as it seems he's been a mainstay on this team forever.

7. Dave Poulin 467 161 233 394
Leadership and character matter, and Dave Poulin oozed both. The second greatest captain in franchise history, Poulin was also very skilled offensively and killed penalties as well as anyone I've ever seen. While probably not a true 1C, Poulin did a great job centering Brian Propp and Tim Kerr on the Flyers top line in the mid 80s. A playoff warrior who played through severe injuries and tremendous pain, his goal while 2 men short against Quebec in the 85 playoffs was one of the most amazing goals in team history and one of the signature moments that I was lucky enough to witness in person. Trading Poulin for a well past his prime Ken Linseman in 1990, was one of the worst moves Bob Clarke ever made as GM. Dave Poulin should have been a career Flyer.

6. Danny Briere 364 124 159 283
There are no bigger games in the NHL than in the playoffs, and that's where Danny Briere played his best hockey. One of the 2 best big game players in franchise history (hint, the other is higher up the list), Briere was pure money in the playoffs. In 68 playoff games as a Flyer, he put up 37 goals and 72 points and it seemed that every goal he scored was a huge one. He was also one of the classiest guys off the ice and getting to sit and chat with him at a JCC Sports Night in Margate, NJ a few years back was just awesome. Some will probably think that Briere is too high on this list, but I think his playoff performances warrant it.

5. Rod Brind'amour 633 235 366 601
Another old school warrior, it was almost impossible to get Brind'amour to miss a game. Playing most of his career in Philly at the same time as Eric Lindros, he often gets overshadowed. However, Brind'amour would have been the 1C on quite a few teams during the time he was in Philly and he was one of the best two way centers in the league. Brind'amour added 51 points in 57 playoff games and he was one of the few Flyers to play well against Detroit in the 97 finals.

4. Claude Giroux 858 247 541 788
Many younger fans will say that Giroux should be 3rd on this list, but I disagree. First off, his best all around season came as a left wing and secondly, I don't think fans realize just how vital the guy at #3 was when it came to the Flyers winning back to back Stanley Cups. That being said, Giroux is a great captain and one of the best playmakers in franchise history. He is unquestionably in any top 10 list of all time Flyers, and is an ace on both special teams. He also has a very impressive 65 points in 69 career playoff games and hopefully he will captain the Flyers to a Cup before he's gone.

3. Rick Macleish 741 329 369 698
The Hawk was the greatest big game money player in team history. Macleish put up 53 goals and 105 points in 108 playoff games including the Cup winner in 1974. During the 2 Cup runs, he put up 24 goals and 42 points in only 34 games and it seemed that every goal he scored was a huge one. Macleish had out of this world skills, but often played on cruise control during the regular season. However once the playoffs started, Macleish became a franchise center in every way. His loss, due to injury, during the 1976 finals as much as Parent's injuries, probably cost the Flyers a 3rd Stanley Cup. The Habs own coach, hall of famer Scotty Bowman, has said that his biggest worry when it came to the Flyers was their one/two punch at center of Clarke and Macleish and Bernie Parent in net. Sadly, with 2 of those 3 missing, the Flyers really never stood a chance.

2. Eric Lindros 486 290 369 659
The numbers only tell part of the story when it comes to big guy. Lindros was a combination of top line skill and physical force the likes of which the NHL had never seen before or since. Injuries and an ugly end to his time in Philly aside, Lindros was still an all time great and the only Flyer not named Clarke to ever win a Hart or Pearson trophy. Lindros also added 57 points in 50 playoff games, but did not have a good series against Detroit in the 97 finals and that has to count against him just a bit. Still, when it comes to pure dominance, he's the Flyers greatest player of all time, but overall he still ranks second to the guy at the top of this list.

1. Bobby Clarke 1144 358 852 1210
Bobby Clarke is the greatest Philadelphia Flyer of all time. Don't believe me? Well, all he did was win 3 Hart trophies, a Pearson, a Masterston and even a Selke late in his career. Clarke was the ultimate NHL captain and his will to win was indomitable. No one played harder than Bobby Clarke. A slight, 170 pound diabetic, Clarke went undrafted in the first round in the 1969 draft. Fun fact: the Habs passed on Clarke 3 times! just imagine how scary the mid 70s Canadiens are with Clarke added to that team! At the start of the 2nd round, Flyers scout Jerry Melnyk all but begged GM Keith Allen to take Clarke and thankfully Keith the Thief listened. From 1972-1976, Clarke was the best center and best 2 way forward in the NHL. He was the QB of the Flyers powerplay and their best penalty killer and faceoff man. Finally, his OT goal in game 2 of the 74 finals may just be the most important in team history. If the Flyers don't win that game, they are going back to Philly down 0-2 and in pure desperation mode. Instead they returned home with the series tied, full of confidence and knowing that all they now needed to do was win on home ice and the Cup was theirs. Bobby Clarke is not only the greatest Flyer of all time, he is one of the all time great figures in Philadelphia professional sports history.

And there you have it, as always, please let me know what you think and feel free to post your own list!

 

[Captain Dave Poulin]

Top 10 worst 1st round draft picks:

1. Ryan Sittler, RW, 7th overall, 1992
2. Bob Currier, C, 6th overall, 1969
3. Danny Lucas, RW, 14th overall, 1978
4. Glen Seabrooke, C, 21st overall, 1985
5. Steve Smith, D, 17th overall, 1981
6. Mike Stothers, D, 21st overall, 1980
7. Maxime Ouellet, G, 22nd overall, 1999
8. Darren Rumble, D, 20th overall, 1987
9. Claude Boivin, LW, 14th overall, 1988
10. Larry Wright, C, 8th overall, 1971

The ones that trigger me the worst on that list are Sittler, Rumble and Boivin. Really depressing stuff.

 

[Captain Dave Poulin]

And now, to hopefully help us all forget last night's debacle in San Jose, here are the top 10 centers in Flyers history. (snip for space)

I would have Poulin 4th, but I'm not the least bit objective, which is why me doing any of these lists would be ridiculous.

When it comes to G, I think we desperately need him to have some games that matter here down the stretch run of his career. He's maybe/probably the fourth "best/most talented" center we have had (Lindros, Clarke, MacLeish - Forsberg's best was elsewhere or he would be there too), but having lived through the 80s and 90s, it's really hard for me to see him in the same light as I see Poulin, Clarke and the others. It's not that I doubt his ability to be clutch - it's just the simple fact that he has barely been in those situations, so we didn't careen up and down the emotional roller coaster with him like we did with the others. In other words, he's reputationally mired in the funk of the Hakstok Dark Ages.

Fire ****ing Hakstok.

 

[BiggE]

I would have Poulin 4th, but I'm not the least bit objective, which is why me doing any of these lists would be ridiculous.

When it comes to G, I think we desperately need him to have some games that matter here down the stretch run of his career. He's maybe/probably the fourth "best/most talented" center we have had (Lindros, Clarke, MacLeish - Forsberg's best was elsewhere or he would be there too), but having lived through the 80s and 90s, it's really hard for me to see him in the same light as I see Poulin, Clarke and the others. It's not that I doubt his ability to be clutch - it's just the simple fact that he has barely been in those situations, so we didn't careen up and down the emotional roller coaster with him like we did with the others. In other words, he's reputationally mired in the funk of the Hakstok Dark Ages.

Fire ****ing Hakstok.

Dave f***ing Hakstol was one of the two huge mistakes Hextall made as GM. The other was not committing to a full rebuild after missing the playoffs in 14-15 and moving both Simmonds and Voracek shortly thereafter.

But, by far, the biggest gaffe was Hakstok. He was totally in over his head and had no business being the head coach of an NHL franchise. When Mimsy Beanpot Gordon is an upgrade, well, that pretty much says it all.

I truly hope Giroux, and for that matter Couturier get to play meaningful playoff games once again in the near future. Both deserve a lot better than what they’ve been surrounded with the last 7 or so years.

 

[Vikke]

Solid list. Fire Hakstok!

 

[landsbergfan]

Not really "top 10" but on the Greatest goals of the decade video the NHL put out, only Giroux's backhand GWG against Columbus made the list for the Flyers. I had a conversation with a buddy about which goal was our favorite for the decade and for me it was very obviously Richards' goal from "The Shift"

 

[CanadianFlyer88]

Not really "top 10" but on the Greatest goals of the decade video the NHL put out, only Giroux's backhand GWG against Columbus made the list for the Flyers. I had a conversation with a buddy about which goal was our favorite for the decade and for me it was very obviously Richards' goal from "The Shift"

The shift was last decade (2009-10).

Edit: I see how it could count to this decade, though, if we're strictly looking at events from January 2010 through December 2019.

 

[BiggE]

The three greatest Flyers goals that I ever saw in person:

Dave Poulin scores while 2 men short versus Quebec in the 1985 conference final

JJ Daigneault scores the game winning goal in game 6 of the SCF vs Edmonton in 1987

Simon Gagne’s OT goal in game 6 of the conference final vs Tampa in 2004

 

[lancer247]

If I was going to rank the 10 best pure fighters in team history, it would be:

Honorable Mentions:
Jack McIlharghy
Craig Berube
Ed Hospador

10. Glen Cochrane
Cochrane fought with reckless abandon and was actually a pretty decent Dman when he was able to stay out of the box.

9. Wayne Simmonds
Pound for pound, the stick legged Simmer was of the toughest players in team history and he routinely fought players who outweighed him by 30 lbs or more

8. Eric Lindros
The Flyers didn’t want him fighting too much but when the big guy dropped the gloves, it was bad news for the other guy. His destruction of multiple Lightning players in the 96 playoffs was epic

7. Rick Tocchet
A classic old school power forward, Toc could throw down as well as anyone. His bouts with Wendell Clark were amazing

6. Mel Bridgman
As MSE mentioned, his fights with Terry O’Reilly were a sight to behold. I really can’t remember Bridgman ever getting beaten cleanly.

5. Donald Brashear
Brash would have made a great Bullie. He was actually a pretty solid player and defensively responsible, but his fists won him an NHL job. Never forget, Ottawa didn’t find their courage in the famous brawl game until Brashear was ejected

4. Dave Schultz
Schultz was pure brutality unleashed. Playing in a much less regulated era, he was known for his vicious headbutts and his taped fists. His beatdown of Dale Rolfe in the 74 playoffs took the heart out of the Rangers. As MSE pointed out, Schultz was a also a fine player (he was a point per game scorer in Junior). He was at his best in the 74 playoffs, especially in game 2 of the finals.

3. Paul Holmgren
Early in Homer’s career, Dave Schultz was traded to LA. In his first game he and Homer dropped the gloves and Holmgren won decisively. Holmgren probably won half his fights from just his menacing stare alone. He was not a guy to mess with and he is solely responsible for Ken “The Rat” Linseman surviving his rookie year

2. Behn Wilson
Wilson was supremely skilled and strong on his skates, but his lack of all around hockey sense and bonehead lapses in judgements always held him back. When it came to fighting, he was a terror. Wilson had some great bouts with the Rags Nick Fotiu (a former gold gloves boxer) and he’s one of the few guys I ever saw beat the Isles Clark Gillies clean. He was known for his jackhammer knockout punch

1. Dave Brown
A 6’5 220 southpaw, Brown used his strength and great reach to his advantage. Rarely have I seen a guy that big with hands that fast. Very few guys wanted any part of Brownie and most who did regretted it. Brown also worked his tail off to be a better player and over the years he went from being a pure goon playing 4-5 minutes per game, to a smart, defensively responsible winger who could take a regular shift.

And there you have it, let me know what you all think.

Berube probably had his best years as an enforcer with WAS and CAL but tough to leave off.

i would swap Cochrane with Brashear. Cochrane really made life miserable for anyone that got close to Howe early on.

 

[lancer247]

Some off the top of my head, in no order cept (vaguely) chronological

Allen Stanley
He was hall of fame player who spent most of his career with Toronto. By the time he got to Philly in 68 though, he was over 40 and pretty much done.

Rob Ramage
He was, due to injury, pretty much done when he got to Philly. In his prime though, he was a borderline top pair guy

Al Secord
He was a pretty good goal scorer in Chicago but here, at the end of his career, he was a generic 4th liner.

Dale Hawerchuk
Hawerchuk didn’t suck in Philly, he was actually pretty good but his ravaged hip had cost him a couple of steps and he was nowhere near the superstar he was in his prime.

Paul Coffey
Coffey was really good for a few games but after getting run over by teammate Eric Lindros, he was never the same and was probably playing with post-concussion symptoms the rest of that season

Derian Hatcher
Hatch didn’t suck in Philly, but his ravaged knees took away whatever speed he once had and he was far from the dominant top pair shutdown guy he was in Dallas

Vinnie Lecavalier
We all know how that worked out. A terrible signing in retrospect, VLC had lost a step and just couldn’t keep up anymore.

Nick Schultz
A solid top four guy in his prime in Minnesota, he was a middling bottom pair guy in Philly

Chris Stewart
A few years back, Ol Biceps was one of the NHLs better power forwards. Today? Today he’s basically an AHL 4th liner masquerading as an NHL player. Cut the cord Chuck!

how about forsberg? PPG player with the flyers but was at the end of the line health wise with the foot issue.

 

[BiggE]

how about forsberg? PPG player with the flyers but was at the end of the line health wise with the foot issue.[/QUOTE

Foppa was disappointing due to injury, but when on the ice he was the best player on the team.

 

[Kermit the Prog]

Berube probably had his best years as an enforcer with WAS and CAL but tough to leave off.

i would swap Cochrane with Brashear. Cochrane really made life miserable for anyone that got close to Howe early on.

I would honestly swap Wilson with Brown. I've seen the entirety of their careers and while Dave Brown was undeniably a freaking monster, Behn Wilson simply unbeatable. He'd take several blows to the face without wincing simply to get into position to pummel a guy.

 

[prototypical4thliner]

Not really "top 10" but on the Greatest goals of the decade video the NHL put out, only Giroux's backhand GWG against Columbus made the list for the Flyers. I had a conversation with a buddy about which goal was our favorite for the decade and for me it was very obviously Richards' goal from "The Shift"

I still think his stick lift and dangle on McDonough and then deking vas against the lightning was his best.

 

[IronMarshal]

This.

I was there for that one and the Poulin shorty against the the Nordiques

 

[Normand Lacombe]

Top 10 "What If's"

What if?

1. Pelle had decided to stay home like he planned rather than going to the team party that horrible night
2. Stickle calls the offside in game 6 of the 1980 SCF
3. Parent and MacLeish were healthy for 1976 SCF
4. Tim Kerr was about somewhat healthy and able to go in the 1987 SCF
5. Lindros is awarded to New York
6. Lindros played with his head up
7. Hextall stops Claude Lemieux's 40 foot shot in game 5 of the 1995 ECF
8. The Flyers had just an average goalie for the 2010 SCF
9. The Flyer had healthy defensemen for the 2004 playoffs
10. Ed Snider declined that invitation to go the Rangers-Bruins game where he came up with the idea of having a NHL team in Philadelphia

Question for @MiamiScreamingEagles or @BiggE. Besides financing the building of the Spectrum, what was Eagles owner Jerry Wolman's involvement with the Flyers? It's been years since I read Full Spectrum, through I do remember Snider and Wolman being business partners who had a falling out concerning Eagles coach Joe Kuharich.

 

[baudib1]

Berube probably had his best years as an enforcer with WAS and CAL but tough to leave off.

i would swap Cochrane with Brashear. Cochrane really made life miserable for anyone that got close to Howe early on.

It was weird because when Berube left the Flyers there was a lot of talk about him being the best fighter in the league and I'd go, "Hmmm he was roughly the third- or fourth-best fighter on the Flyers."

 

[MiamiScreamingEagles]

Top 10 "What If's"

What if?

1. Pelle had decided to stay home like he planned rather than going to the team party that horrible night
2. Stickle calls the offside in game 6 of the 1980 SCF
3. Parent and MacLeish were healthy for 1976 SCF
4. Tim Kerr was about somewhat healthy and able to go in the 1987 SCF
5. Lindros is awarded to New York
6. Lindros played with his head up
7. Hextall stops Claude Lemieux's 40 foot shot in game 5 of the 1995 ECF
8. The Flyers had just an average goalie for the 2010 SCF
9. The Flyer had healthy defensemen for the 2004 playoffs
10. Ed Snider declined that invitation to go the Rangers-Bruins game where he came up with the idea of having a NHL team in Philadelphia

Question for @MiamiScreamingEagles or @BiggE. Besides financing the building of the Spectrum, what was Eagles owner Jerry Wolman's involvement with the Flyers? It's been years since I read Full Spectrum, through I do remember Snider and Wolman being business partners who had a falling out concerning Eagles coach Joe Kuharich.

"What ifs" could drive the most sane person batty. If we focus on negatives we could also do the same with how the good came towards us.

Bobby Clarke: What if the Bruins, who had three first rounds picks in 1969, selected Bobby Clarke instead of the Flyers in the second round

Bernie Parent: My screen name is a play on a riddle. The Miami Screaming Eagles were an original WHA team in 1972. Bernie Parent, since traded by the Flyers to the Toronto Maple Leafs, signed a lucrative contract and jumped leagues. The team failed in its arena plan, never played under its name, and moved desperately to Philadelphia where it flopped prior to relocating to Vancouver after one year. Parent refused to play for a financially strapped franchise and made it known he wanted to return to the NHL but not to Toronto who maintained his contract; yet his one year in the WHA for Philadelphia got him home sick. If not for the initial relocation of the Miami Screaming Eagles… does Parent return to Philadelphia?

Patrick Roy/John Stevens: What If the Flyers drafted Patrick Roy instead of John Stevens when both were on the board [four picks apart] and remember how that played into Colorado winning the Cup after the Lindros trade.

Lindros 2000: The great debate about Lindros returning during the 2000 playoffs against NJ.

Wolman/Snider: As far as your question, Wayne Fish penned a good article a few years ago on the matter, There was much disagreement about the relationship of Wolman and Snider. I will search for it.

EDIT: Ed Snider, Jerry Wolman and how the Flyers came to be

Here is the 2009 Hochman piece which is behind a paywall:

Stan Hochman: Snider-Wolman feud outliving Spectrum​

 

[Kermit the Prog]

Top 10 "What If's"

What if?

2. Stickle calls the offside in game 6 of the 1980 SCF

A pox on your house.

Many people don't remember Denis Potvin scored a goal earlier in the game with a high stick and it wasn't called.

I'd better calm down. I'm getting the vapors (fanning self)

 

[MiamiScreamingEagles]

A pox on your house.

Many people don't remember Denis Potvin scored a goal earlier in the game with a high stick and it wasn't called.

I'd better calm down. I'm getting the vapors (fanning self)

As I mentioned recently, there was something awry with that playoff year. The NHL did not want the Flyers to win. I mentioned the prior series against Minnesota in which the Flyers won 4-1 that the North Stars had a 40-18 PP advantage. I generally lose the initial emotion of botched calls and the woe is me is something that can get tired. Not with this situation however. Never. Any Flyer fan who witnessed 1980 should remain incensed.

And don't forget Game 1. The Islanders got a PPG in the last five minutes of regulation and then in OT the latter with one second left on the kill. Whether the calls were justified or not, it was a time in history when refs looked the other way. Andy Van Hellemond was praised or vilified afterwards. He did something unorthodox and helped changed course of events.

Scotty Morrison of the NHL said "It was a great call" after the game. Nice words from someone who headed the officiating crew but how about a little diplomacy from someone who should have some neutrality considering the importance and sensitivity ?! One of my favorite Pat Quinn lines was "If you put a bunch of Flyer sweaters out there on coat hangers, they'd draw penalties." Later when asked about the terrible refereeing in the series he said "You're getting into a situation that's very touchy with me." Sad to say but true.

 

[Kermit the Prog]

As I mentioned recently, there was something awry with that playoff year. The NHL did not want the Flyers to win. I mentioned the prior series against Minnesota in which the Flyers won 4-1 that the North Stars had a 40-18 PP advantage. I generally lose the initial emotion of botched calls and the woe is me is something that can get tired. Not with this situation however. Never. Any Flyer fan who witnessed 1980 should remain incensed.

And don't forget Game 1. The Islanders got a PPG in the last five minutes of regulation and then in OT the latter with one second left on the kill. Whether the calls were justified or not, it was a time in history when refs looked the other way. Andy Van Hellemond was praised or vilified afterwards. He did something unorthodox and helped changed course of events.

Scotty Morrison of the NHL said "It was a great call" after the game. Nice words from someone who headed the officiating crew but how about a little diplomacy from someone who should have some neutrality considering the importance and sensitivity ?! One of my favorite Pat Quinn lines was "If you put a bunch of Flyer sweaters out there on coat hangers, they'd draw penalties." Later when asked about the terrible refereeing in the series he said "You're getting into a situation that's very touchy with me." Sad to say but true.

The refereeing was atrocious in those playoffs. Leon Stickle. I'll never forget that name. Regardless, it was felt to be a fait accompli that the Flyers would win Game 7 back at The Spectrum. They'd only lost five games there all year. To not have a chance to slug it out back on home ice was the emptiest feeling.