Top 10 defensemen of all-time?

[Canadiens1958]

It seems Chicago gave up a ton of PPGA in the playoffs from 1962-68:

Tm	GP	PPGA	PPGA/GP
Chicago	62	69	1.11
Toronto	58	42	0.72
Montreal	64	41	0.64
Detroit	44	33	0.75
NY Rangers	16	12	0.75
St. Louis	18	12	0.67
Minnesota	14	8	0.57
Philadelphia	7	4	0.57
Los Angeles	7	4	0.57
Boston	4	3	0.75

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Counting 1961 (when they won) it's a still high 77 PPGA in 74 games. Pilote wasn't often a highly used PK guy judging from the +/- data (18 PPGA from 62-68, mostly in 62 and 67). While keeping Pilote off of the PK may have been because of his size, Beliveau wasn't highly effective at ES (when Pilote was more likely to be out) until Pilote's last year in Chicago. The only real standout against Chicago at even strength was the fairly normal-sized Norm Ullman (24 ESP in 26 GP).

Whether it was from taking a bunch of penalties or simply not being able to kill them, PPGA seems to be a contributing factor in Chicago's inability to win in the playoffs after 1961.

Pilote's regular defensive partner was Moose Vasko obviously big and talented

1961 Chicago had big d-men St.Laurent, Evans who concussed Beliveau in the semis, Arbour. Arbour was claimed by Toronto in the June draft.

1962 Evans and St.Laurent had aged. St.Laurent retired in 1962 while Evans left the NHL in 1963. Both had slowed noticably. replaced by rookies and journeymen.

Stan Mikita their best PK forward was also the playoff PIM leader in 1965:

1964-65 Chicago Black Hawks Roster and Statistics | Hockey-Reference.com

Not an ideal situation since after 1961 Pilote was overplayed come the playoffs.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

It seems Chicago gave up a ton of PPGA in the playoffs from 1962-68:

Tm	GP	PPGA	PPGA/GP
Chicago	62	69	1.11
Toronto	58	42	0.72
Montreal	64	41	0.64
Detroit	44	33	0.75
NY Rangers	16	12	0.75
St. Louis	18	12	0.67
Minnesota	14	8	0.57
Philadelphia	7	4	0.57
Los Angeles	7	4	0.57
Boston	4	3	0.75

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Counting 1961 (when they won) it's a still high 77 PPGA in 74 games. Pilote wasn't often a highly used PK guy judging from the +/- data (18 PPGA from 62-68, mostly in 62 and 67). While keeping Pilote off of the PK may have been because of his size, Beliveau wasn't highly effective at ES (when Pilote was more likely to be out) until Pilote's last year in Chicago. The only real standout against Chicago at even strength was the fairly normal-sized Norm Ullman (24 ESP in 26 GP).

Whether it was from taking a bunch of penalties or simply not being able to kill them, PPGA seems to be a contributing factor in Chicago's inability to win in the playoffs after 1961.

Interesting. I've seen it said on this board that it's a fairly modern phenomenon for a defenseman to win the Norris without seeing much PK time. But this seems to indicate that Pilote did the same back in the 1960s.

 

[blogofmike]

Pilote's 1965 was especially low, but his overall usage was not out of line with many of those who followed. (Note Orr's 1968 Norris year saw him miss a significant amount of time. When he played he was likely used in line with his 1969 usage.)

Red is 50% or below.
Red Bold is below 40%

Player	Year	PPGA	TmPPGA	PK%
Harvey	1960	26	35	74.3%
Harvey	1961	22	31	71.0%
Harvey	1962	22	30	73.3%
Pilote	1963	20	46	43.5%
Pilote	1964	21	43	48.8%
Pilote	1965	16	47	34.0%
Laperriere	1966	31	46	67.4%
Howell	1967	15	31	48.4%
Orr*	1968	15	50	30.0%
Orr	1969	26	56	46.4%
Orr	1970	41	80	51.3%
Orr	1971	30	52	57.7%
Orr	1972	29	51	56.9%
Orr	1973	29	43	67.4%
Orr	1974	32	48	66.7%
Orr	1975	44	59	74.6%
Potvin	1976	33	55	60.0%
Robinson	1977	10	28	35.7%
Potvin	1978	30	45	66.7%
Potvin	1979	34	57	59.6%
Robinson	1980	30	46	65.2%
Carlyle	1981	49	99	49.5%
Wilson	1982	33	94	35.1%
Langway	1983	35	53	66.0%
Langway	1984	26	40	65.0%
Coffey	1985	26	76	34.2%
Coffey	1986	44	77	57.1%
Bourque	1987	33	60	55.0%
Bourque	1988	34	70	48.6%
Chelios	1989	36	58	62.1%
Bourque	1990	33	53	62.3%
Bourque	1991	32	64	50.0%
Leetch	1992	25	60	41.7%
Chelios	1993	45	81	55.6%
Bourque	1994	31	58	53.4%
Coffey	1995	11	28	39.3%
Chelios	1996	43	65	66.2%
Leetch	1997	39	69	56.5%
Blake	1998	36	63	57.1%
MacInnis	1999	22	47	46.8%
Pronger	2000	27	42	64.3%
Lidstrom	2001	35	55	63.6%
Lidstrom	2002	32	48	66.7%
Lidstrom	2003	41	55	74.5%
Niedermayer	2004	15	39	38.5%

[TBODY] [/TBODY]