Speculation: Too many wingers

[Mortimer Snerd]

I see our top 8 wingers as being:Wheeler, Ehlers, Dano, Armia, Perreault, Laine, Connor, Lowry. JMO and I'm not here to justify or argue those 8. The issue is that we also have Stafford who is a legitimate top 6 F and certainly doesn't belong below the top 9. We also have Thor and Peluso. Peluso can be moved one way or another but at the moment he is still with the Jets. I figure Thor for PB duty but a lot of posters feel he will still be a regular in the lineup somewhere. I can't see that myself but maybe they are right. Then, for some unknown reason Chevy added Matthias. If we don't count Peluso we still have 3 wingers that don't fit into my 8. Peluso would make 4. We have to subtract at least 2 and maybe 3 if Thor plays.

The only ones who are waiver exempt are Dano, Connor and Laine. Are we really going to send them down so that we can play Staff, Thor and Matthias? Send down Dano and Connor in order to play Staff and Matthias with Thor in the PB and Laine in? If Thor, Staff and Matthias all play are we tanking?

I don't think any of the players needing waivers clears. At least I wouldn't want to risk losing them that way. I honestly can't see sending any of the waiver exempt players down in order to play any of the 3 extras. Putting Thor in the PB reduces the problem to two.

The only way acquiring Matthias makes sense to me is if Chevy was already planning a trade. I think at least 2 forwards have to go. Recent signings say Perreault and Matthias won't be involved. So the possibilities include: Stafford, Thor, Peluso, Burmi, Lowry, Dano, Armia plus Petan and a few other Moose players but Petan and the other Moose don't address the glut on the NHL roster.

Thoughts?

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[broinwhyteridge]

Stranger things have happened concerning this team's line-up decisions.

 

[Sweech]

I don't get why people differentiate "top 6" and "top 9" when we basically give them even EV strength time. The only difference is PP and PK time and any of them can be on those units.

The way Maurice runs things it seems there's a "Top 9" and a 4th line.

Also Stafford in my opinion is not a "legitimate top 6 forward".

 

[Whileee]

Actually, I think the good thing about the Jets' depth is that they have quite a few forwards that can play C, as well as wing. Ignoring Thorbs and Peluso...

Wingers only: Wheeler, Ehlers, Laine, Stafford, Connor, Dano, Armia, Lemieux, Kosmachuk, etc.

Centers only: Scheifele, Little, (Burmistrov, Lowry).

C/W optional: Perreault, Matthias, Lowry, Petan, Copp, Roslovic, De Leo.

I still think that a big reason that Matthias was signed is so that the Jets can comply with the expansion draft requirements, in case they decide to protect 7 forwards. They probably still need to sign or trade for another F for 2 years, in that case.

If, for example, the Jets decide to trade Myers or Trouba and the return includes a top-end forward, they would almost certainly go for the 7/3 option. I don't think that's likely, but better to plan ahead.

 

[Whileee]

By the way, I do think that the Jets seem likely to make a trade. I could see them trading Stafford at some point during the season. They might also look at trading one of Burmi, Dano, Armia, Copp, Lowry or Petan.

 

[puck stoppa]

By the way, I do think that the Jets seem likely to make a trade. I could see them trading Stafford at some point during the season. They might also look at trading one of Burmi, Dano, Armia, Copp, Lowry or Petan.

I feel the same way, and have for a long time. but teams may wait to see if a guy (armia for ex) may be on waivers in October before they trade.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I don't get why people differentiate "top 6" and "top 9" when we basically give them even EV strength time. The only difference is PP and PK time and any of them can be on those units.

The way Maurice runs things it seems there's a "Top 9" and a 4th line.

Also Stafford in my opinion is not a "legitimate top 6 forward".

So, then by your standards he is not top 9 either. So what happens to him? Will he play for the Jets next season? If so who gets waived to make room?

 

[Sweech]

So, then by your standards he is not top 9 either. So what happens to him? Will he play for the Jets next season? If so who gets waived to make room?

Well no. You're mixing up Top 6 forward in general and Top 9 under Maurice. They're obviously different contextually.

Also, I don't think talent is going to dictate what we do with our over abundance of forwards. I fully believe Chevy will make at most 1 trade and then send down waiver exempt players and at most waive someone like Peluso.

 

[blues10]

Seems like a great mix to compete for jobs. the top 7 forwards are pretty much set and after that it will be a battle for 5 jobs and PB duty. Despite the hatred for Stafford he'll be in top 9 and I expect top 6.

Stafford will be dealt at the deadline if we are out of the playoffs, otherwise enjoy!

Looks like some great PB depth and talent to develop in the AHL with the Moose.

I don't expect this franchise to make much available on waivers unless it is a Peluso. Unless someone plays lights out while someone comes to camp out of shape and preforms poorly I fully expect waiver eligibility to be a large determining factor in the who makes the big club.

It is really nice to have competition for jobs and ice time - something we have lacked in the past.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Actually, I think the good thing about the Jets' depth is that they have quite a few forwards that can play C, as well as wing. Ignoring Thorbs and Peluso...

Wingers only: Wheeler, Ehlers, Laine, Stafford, Connor, Dano, Armia, Lemieux, Kosmachuk, etc.

Centers only: Scheifele, Little, (Burmistrov, Lowry).

C/W optional: Perreault, Matthias, Lowry, Petan, Copp, Roslovic, De Leo.

I still think that a big reason that Matthias was signed is so that the Jets can comply with the expansion draft requirements, in case they decide to protect 7 forwards. They probably still need to sign or trade for another F for 2 years, in that case.

If, for example, the Jets decide to trade Myers or Trouba and the return includes a top-end forward, they would almost certainly go for the 7/3 option. I don't think that's likely, but better to plan ahead.

OK, makes sense so far but how does he fit Into the lineup? One way or another we need to deal with all our forwards. Whether they are pigeonholed as wingers or centres doesn't matter. We have too many even if we consign 2 of them to the PB.

 

[Jets]

I don't see both Perreault and Lowry being wingers. That leaves Burmistrov and Copp as our 3-4 Cs. No way they both take those spots and send down a better player on the wing. Much more likely that Perreault and Lowry both take a bottom 6 C spot and we keep a guy like Armia or Dano up on the wing than Copp.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Well no. You're mixing up Top 6 forward in general and Top 9 under Maurice. They're obviously different contextually.

Also, I don't think talent is going to dictate what we do with our over abundance of forwards. I fully believe Chevy will make at most 1 trade and then send down waiver exempt players and at most waive someone like Peluso.

OK, waive Peluso. Still 3 too many. If 1 forward is traded then there is no room for Dano or Connor. If the trade doesn't come before the season opener then another gets squeezed out. Waive Armia or send Laine to the Moose? The choices get crazy.

I disagree about Stafford. I think he plays top 6 for most teams and top 9 for most others. The distinction between top 6 and top 9 may get overemphasized but it does exist. There is more to it than just TOI. But that really doesn't make any difference here because we are talking about 12 Fs here.

 

[meedle]

Probably not resigning Stafford at end of season and going to lose either Dano or Armia to expansion. So not as deep as you think

 

[Jetfaninflorida]

The glut of wingers that we had last year was a glut of AHLers /marginal NHLers / developing NHLers but probably too soon. Nice to have real competition at forward at training camp this year. I hope to see guys like Thorbs, Peluso, Burmi (or put whoever you didn't particularly think was right like Petan, Halischuk, Copp, Armia, Lowry etc) get pushed down, or pushed hard to improve to keep their spots.

 

[Jets]

Come to think of it, we have to play one or both of Perreault and Lowry at C otherwise it just doesn't work.

Slot in the sure things you have:

Ehlers - Scheifele - Wheeler
Laine - Little - (RW2)
Connor - Perreault - (RW3)
Matthias - (C4) - (RW4)
(PB1) - (PB2)

Chances are one of your two press box guys is a C and the other is a winger so that leaves:
Stafford, Armia, Thorburn, Dano, Peluso for 3 RW spots. Petan, Lowry, Burmistrov, Copp for 1 C spot and 1 PB spot. Plus Lemieux as a LW is making noise/other prospects could surprise. And then any of them can shake lose for the last press box seat.

9 guys for 6 spots. In an ideal world we send down Peluso, Thorburn and Copp/Petan but we all know Thorburn will either be a PB guy or RW4 so that leaves 8 guys for 5 spots and Peluso is likely the only sure thing to be sent down.

 

[surixon]

I don't think it's the worst thing in the world to have call up options such as Petan and Connor on the farm for when injuries hit.

 

[KingBogo]

Seems like a great mix to compete for jobs. the top 7 forwards are pretty much set and after that it will be a battle for 5 jobs and PB duty. Despite the hatred for Stafford he'll be in top 9 and I expect top 6.

Stafford will be dealt at the deadline if we are out of the playoffs, otherwise enjoy!

Looks like some great PB depth and talent to develop in the AHL with the Moose.

I don't expect this franchise to make much available on waivers unless it is a Peluso. Unless someone plays lights out while someone comes to camp out of shape and preforms poorly I fully expect waiver eligibility to be a large determining factor in the who makes the big club.

It is really nice to have competition for jobs and ice time - something we have lacked in the past.

I'd tend to agree with this perspective. I think the available roster is just getting to the point where the organization wants it. Still lots of waiver exempt guys so that you don't lose anyone they don't want to risk. No doubt the possibility of a trade exists, but I see it more likely the Jets will let some of the waiver exempt guys play prominent roles on the Moose and bring them up when the inevitable injuries happen. Next season the are likely to lose a forward in the expansion draft and Thor and Stafford are off the books. They then slot in 3 players that have got a lot of ice time with the Moose in a variety of situations and are a step closer to the players they can develop into. Being able to operate like a contender is long over due IMO.

 

[Puckatron 3000]

A planned trade is possible.

The other possibility is that they truly do plan on having a real competition for the NHL roster spots. This is what they've said in interviews. Those players who don't make it get waived, and probably claimed. The Jets grabbed other team's trash for a number of years. We owe the waiver wire some action.

So yeah, we'd likely lose some players for nothing. But there are only so many spots, and the competition should help ensure we got the best guys for the job. I would also expect everyone to show up in top form to TC, which is an additional benefit.

Anyone not claimed becomes an expensive Moose player, which is fine with me. I don't mind the additional depth, nor the extra talent on the Moose.

And of course, it just might end up that some of the guys who get cut are aren't waiver eligible. It wouldn't totally surprise me to see Dano go down if he's not in shape. Or perhaps even Connor if he's having some trouble transitioning.

 

[Hima777]

Survival of the fittest

First posting on this site. I am glad that we finally have depth. I remember year 1 where we were the waiver wire development team. From my point of view this abundance of forwards is a result of our patient 5 year wait as fans.

I think we should work with this overabundance of forwards and really find out who is the best. The real test is are we willing to get past "character" and shoot for "character and talent". Thats on the coaching staff/mgt. The real test is when we see players like thorburn, peluso, and other character players sent to the moose, waivers, whatever.

My sense is that Matthias is a bit of a lesson learned from last year when we should have kept tlusty and stempniak to encourage solid competition. It seems a little redundant now with all the players, but I think Matthias is also theoretical insurance for our penalty kill.

 

[mcpw]

Growing pains of a franchise who might be on the verge of starting to become competitive for the first time.

focus: wingers at start of season

stage one - omg our roster sucks

11-12 Ladd; Wheeler; EKane; Antropov; Wellwood; MacLean; Thorburn; Glass; Stapleton; Gagnon; Machacek

stage two - well these new bargain bin aquisitions might turn it around, they have upside but I remain skeptical (fast forward two months: ok doesn't work)

12-13 Ladd; Wheeler; EKane; Antropov; Wellwood; Miettinen; Ponikarovsky; Tangradi; Wright; Peluso; Thorburn
13-14 Ladd; Wheeler; EKane; Frolik; Setoguchi; Halischuk; Tangradi; Thorburn; Peluso; Klingberg

stage three - we're actually seeing better results from our kids, couple of decent FAs, future is bright

14-15 Ladd; Wheeler; EKane; Frolik; Lowry; Byfuglien (lol); Galiardi; Halischuk; Thorburn; Peluso
15-16 Ladd; Wheeler; Perreault; Ehlers; Stafford; Burmistrov; Petan; Thorburn; Peluso; Halischuk; Lipon

stage four - wait you did too much there. I only asked for 4 top6 wingers, 2 more top9 wingers one of whom could play second line, two good fourth line wingers one of whom could play third line and a pressbox forward who could play fourth line. How dare you bring in so much talent and depth? We might lose a player to waivers! We might have a bona fide NHL talent sitting in the pressbox! Think of the children! of course if two of our higher-profile wingers get injured, we can still ice a regular NHL roster but I DON'T CARE BECAUSE A GOOD PLAYER MIGHT SIT IN THE PRESSBOX GAME ONE WHEN NOBODY'S INJURED!

16-17 Wheeler; Ehlers; Laine; Connor; Dano; Stafford; Matthias; Armia; Lowry; Burmistrov; Thorburn; Peluso; Petan; Lipon; Howden

=================

It's a new feeling for all of us. It's called depth.

Watch other team's boards all the time in the offseason. "There's a clear logjam at F/at D. Clearly the plan is to trade $MidLevelVet, some team is clearly gonna be interested (even though $MidLevelVet and $MidLevelVet are still UFA). If not, we're gonna lose one of our better young guys like $NotSoShinyAndPrettyOldToy on the waiver wire. We're probably getting 100 points, but still, fire the GM!"

=================

I'm actually willing to give PauMau the benefit of doubt here.
Once Trouba is signed, we're spending more than ever, and probably closer to the cap than ever except for that weird 13-14 season.
Management has, for the first time ever, provided the team with enough forward depth to cover one injury. Remember when one injury in the 14-15 starting roster meant top6 forward Byfuglien.
Maybe they actually feel like they are in "contending mode" starting this season. 3 very good U21 wingers, let's use their ELC windows.

=================

That said, my leash has become shorter. After watching last season I've become impatient. I won't comment much on voodoo decisions (aka goalies). Player lost to waivers with Peluso making the starting roster? Fire everybody. Dano tearing apart the AHL for the first 20 games of the season while big team is slumping? Fire everybody. Stuart playing first 10 games with bad results? Fire everybody. Peluso playing two games in a row without destroying somebody in a fight on the level of at least some opponent's fans calling for legal action? Fire at least the coaching staff, probably everybody. Third line Thorburn? Fire everybody. Fourth line sub eight minutes? Fire at least the coaching staff, probably everybody. Stop being ****ing stupid.

 

[KingBogo]

First posting on this site. I am glad that we finally have depth. I remember year 1 where we were the waiver wire development team. From my point of view this abundance of forwards is a result of our patient 5 year wait as fans.

I think we should work with this overabundance of forwards and really find out who is the best. The real test is are we willing to get past "character" and shoot for "character and talent". Thats on the coaching staff/mgt. The real test is when we see players like thorburn, peluso, and other character players sent to the moose, waivers, whatever.

My sense is that Matthias is a bit of a lesson learned from last year when we should have kept tlusty and stempniak to encourage solid competition. It seems a little redundant now with all the players, but I think Matthias is also theoretical insurance for our penalty kill.

Welcome aboard! Also very glad to see that the days of running with other team's garbage is long gone.

 

[northendninja]

Burmi and Stafford would be my bets to see sent packing... Would love to get a serviceable d-man in return, but I'm thinking a 2nd for Stafford and like a 4th for Burmi is more realistic.

 

[Sweech]

OK, waive Peluso. Still 3 too many. If 1 forward is traded then there is no room for Dano or Connor. If the trade doesn't come before the season opener then another gets squeezed out. Waive Armia or send Laine to the Moose? The choices get crazy.

I disagree about Stafford. I think he plays top 6 for most teams and top 9 for most others. The distinction between top 6 and top 9 may get overemphasized but it does exist. There is more to it than just TOI. But that really doesn't make any difference here because we are talking about 12 Fs here.

I can easily envision Chevy sending down Connor and Dano.

Like I said it will have nothing to do with talent, but it seems this is how we want to do things.

 

[LimpDave]

I'm sure one of our wingers for a LHD is on the table, but only if relative value is where the jets want it to be ... I get the impression that the internal competition is just fine with the jets management.

I just hope the standard vets (Stu and Thorns) earn every minute this year....we have the depth for the first time, I'll be upset if Maurice doesn't allow for some young talent to shine

 

[Heldig]

Burmi and Stafford would be my bets to see sent packing... Would love to get a serviceable d-man in return, but I'm thinking a 2nd for Stafford and like a 4th for Burmi is more realistic.

On the Coyotes board it was agreeable to trade a second for Stafford.