Friedman: Too many teams trying to sell, not enough teams buying

[KingPuckChoo]

I don't disagree, but JVR is on his way to a career high in goals, and is a great net front presence, perfect rental for a contender looking for scoring.

Now, that's not me condoning trading him, just making a point.

yea i like JVR a lot
actually never understood why a guy this productive is limited to 14mins ice time? i know there's a lot of personnel on the team

but Kadri Marner Bozak Brown Komarov all play more minutes, why does he not get around 16 mins a night consistently? 25 goals is serious business

i haven't seen him make any boneheaded mistakes (ive only seen a handful of leafs games, so i wouldn't know)

 

[CupsOverCash]

Price will go down eventually. Right now sell high. There's no reason not to. If team's want a big return you want to do it now because the draft is a different animal these days. I think it's harder to get draft choices now days because of the value of the entry level contract. All the team's are confident in their drafting skills so they want these guys on cheap entry level deals. It's the way of the new nhl. Younger faster players rule.

That's why all these team's are selling. They are adjusting to the new nhl. You don't go buy guys to solve your problems. That's a sure fire way to mess your roster up and long term too. Also you need to hit on these guys which makes the entry level contracts count. Do that right and then you go buy the players to solve problems. Hopefully without having to trade for them at the deadline. So it's both ways with this. You want to trade at the deadline? Be ready to get a good return but the days of going all in are over. At least for now it is.

 

[HOPE]

Lets all ignore kessel was the best player in their last 2 stanley cup playoffs!

 

[One Winged Angel]

You know who else was considered a 1 dimensional player??
This guy...

Like stated before, you're trying to tell me that he's not a one-dimensional player?

Not saying Kessel is bad, but he's definitely more than benefitted from playing with Sid and Geno, just like Rick Nash would from having Matthews, Nylander, Marner, Marleau, Kadri and JVR around him. A guy like Nash could help move Brown or Hyman down in the lineup.

 

[One Winged Angel]

Lets all ignore kessel was the best player in their last 2 stanley cup playoffs!

The first one, I'd argue that he was, although I'd eventually give the nod to Murray.

The second one, definitely not.

 

[rent free]

Not a shot at Toronto, but I think this is the best team they've had in years. Yes, Sundin is a generational player, but there wasn't enough depth behind him nor was there enough depth on defense. They added veteran after veteran from 99 - 04. I remember them adding Owen Nolan, Ron Francis and Brian Leetch in those years, but it never worked and I never thought they had a legitimate chance with those teams, as good as the names on them were.

They have the core of something special going forward and this is the most talent I think I've seen them have, at least offensively, in years.

Fair assessment.

 

[HOPE]

The first one, I'd argue that he was, although I'd eventually give the nod to Murray.

The second one, definitely not.

First one was hands down kessel or letang, second was kessel or malkin. Crosby robbed both of them. Don’t get me wrong he played great.

 

[rent free]

yea i like JVR a lot
actually never understood why a guy this productive is limited to 14mins ice time? i know there's a lot of personnel on the team

but Kadri Marner Bozak Brown Komarov all play more minutes, why does he not get around 16 mins a night consistently? 25 goals is serious business

i haven't seen him make any boneheaded mistakes (ive only seen a handful of leafs games, so i wouldn't know)

He doesn't do anything else other than stand infront of the net and tip picks. No forechecking no backchecking not a strong defensive player definitely not a guy you'd want defending a late lead.

 

[Liferleafer]

Are you saying he's not?

Funny how playing with Sid and Malkin can change how we view players. Phil is an exceptional talent who was put in the position every scoring winger dreams of...low pressure, high scoring opportunities, minimal defensive effort required.

Nope, i'm saying that a goal producing forward can be really effective to a contending team.

 

[pgk]

People also forget that there's JVR and then there's Playoff JVR. I mean, he is available just because of his contract situation, but you had better be prepared to pay top shelf. He's exactly the kind of guy who destroys matchup third lines in the playoffs. I would be shocked if Lou moves him.

The only way I could see him going is as one part of a Karlsson package. And no, I don't know what the other parts would be, but there would be a bunch.

 

[Liferleafer]

Like stated before, you're trying to tell me that he's not a one-dimensional player?

Not saying Kessel is bad, but he's definitely more than benefitted from playing with Sid and Geno, just like Rick Nash would from having Matthews, Nylander, Marner, Marleau, Kadri and JVR around him. A guy like Nash could help move Brown or Hyman down in the lineup.

As a Leafs fan, i have less than zero interest in giving up even 1 asset for Rick Nash. My point was that even if JVR is "one dimensional", a contending team could very much benefit adding a 30+ goal scoring forward at 4.5 for a playoff run.

 

[Prettyisland]

The leagues parody is detrimental to buyers and sellers. Sellers won’t get they want, buyers ( who aren’t clear cut contenders) will wasted assets when the inevitably get bounced in the first round when the tempo changes

 

[Pucker77]

This is easily a buyers market, if what is being reported is true. Usually the middle of the pack teams try to make a deal to hop in the playoffs, but with the draft becoming increasingly important every year, those same bubble teams would rather miss the playoffs and keep their youth for future playoff attempts/success.

The sellers usually create a bidding war on players to increase the value received to some ridiculous proportions. However, this year it looks as if the buyers will be setting the market price and that will reduce player costs exponentially.

Some buyers may still overpay for a rental, but I think this might be a more sensible market than recent years.

With that said, I dont think too many big trades will happen because the selling GM's will not want to trade their high priced guys for less than a massive overpayment (McDonagh, Karlsson, Hoffman, Pacioretty, etc.). Rentals will still go and maybe not for as much as originally expected, but I doubt any blockbusters occur.

 

[Pucker77]

Rick Nash is a better option for a playoff run than a one dimensional player who has far less playoff experience and has had one good post season series in his career.

Age doesn't matter nearly as much in this instance being that they're both pure rentals.

Nash may have more "playoff experience" but JVR over his career has been better than Nash in the playoffs. I admit it is a smaller sample size, but JVR has looked better and has a cheaper contract as well as being younger.

And being younger does matter because a team may be more willing to resign him because he is 4 years younger. Which Toronto may be able to turn into a conditional pick if he re-signs.

 

[Bedards Dad]

If teams want a player bad enough, they will pay the price.

You seem confused as to how a sales market works. Real quick for you: If more people are selling then buying the market gets flooded at that point the sell will need to lower their price to make said sale. There is no need for the buyers to pay more when there is an abundance of players available.

 

[Lemieuxs]

Or from the Buffalo perspective, you have a bunch of crap that no one wants. The one player you thought would draw interest many GM's want nothing to do with.

 

[CodeE]

finally! so sick and tired of the ridiculous price tags of 1st + 1st + 1st + 1st + 1st for 1 month of Keith Yandle scoring you 2 goals on PP or Shattenkirk and ****ty players like that

on paper some people would even hesitate to cough up a 2nd rd pick for the ****ty attitude Evander Kane

but yet, he's "worth" 1st + 1st + 1st + 1st + 1st

**** off!

I feel your pain brother.

I just read a post from a Habs fan saying Carey Price (with 0 retention) for Barzal+Pulock+Halak+NYI 1st+CGY 1st is a fair initial asking price for his goaltender.

It's almost impossible to discuss trade value because too many HFboards posters are simply concerned with only getting ridiculous overpayments back for their expendable veterans, willfully ignoring things like drops in production, contract status, and just overall lack of interest when they hurt their "my expendable player has humongous trade value" narratives.

Martin Hanzal got a 1st+, therefore my 3rd line center is easily worth that. Erat was traded for Forsberg, so trade your blue chip prospect for a veteran I trash regularly on my team's forum. My guy had a really good season back in 2012-13 and it's very likely your blue chip prospect is a complete and utter bust because he hasn't hit the NHL yet, so from my POV it's fair.

I actually had an Avalanche fan tell me I was wrong about valuing Barzal highly last year because more people agreed with his "very likely a bust" assessment of the current Calder favorite, and that nobody (myself included) could have seen his success coming. The need of some people to twist everything into a "win" really gets tedious.

 

[5cotland]

You seem confused as to how a sales market works. Real quick for you: If more people are selling then buying the market gets flooded at that point the sell will need to lower their price to make said sale. There is no need for the buyers to pay more when there is an abundance of players available.

You want the top rated rental, you will pay the value.

 

[varano]

You want the top rated rental, you will pay the value.

Not really. You may decide that you can get the 2nd best guy for half the price.

 

[Jumptheshark]

this is what most of us have been saying

 

[Brobust]

Well there are no comparable players on the block that Nash at the moment.

You mean guys making a ton of money and scoring at 0.5 ppg?

 

[David25]

Mark Stone

JVR.

 

[One Winged Angel]

Nash may have more "playoff experience" but JVR over his career has been better than Nash in the playoffs. I admit it is a smaller sample size, but JVR has looked better and has a cheaper contract as well as being younger.

He hasn't been better. JVR has had one good series. Otherwise he's been a relative non-factor.

It doesn't look like Nash is doing much because his offensive numbers aren't great, but the difference between him and JVR is that if Nash isn't scoring, he's at least making things happen. If JVR isn't scoring, he's invisible.

And being younger does matter because a team may be more willing to resign him because he is 4 years younger. Which Toronto may be able to turn into a conditional pick if he re-signs.

In a situation where it's pure rentals with no intent to re-sign, it's not going to matter at all.

Not only that, but JVR isn't going anywhere. Toronto is contending.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

If teams want a player bad enough, they will pay the price.

I don't think you understand what a buyers' market is...

If a team is asking too much, and there are LOTS of options out there (ie. more teams selling), then the buyer has all the power and can just go to one of the other teams.

 

[rent free]

I feel your pain brother.

I just read a post from a Habs fan saying Carey Price (with 0 retention) for Barzal+Pulock+Halak+NYI 1st+CGY 1st is a fair initial asking price for his goaltender.

It's almost impossible to discuss trade value because too many HFboards posters are simply concerned with only getting ridiculous overpayments back for their expendable veterans, willfully ignoring things like drops in production, contract status, and just overall lack of interest when they hurt their "my expendable player has humongous trade value" narratives.

Martin Hanzal got a 1st+, therefore my 3rd line center is easily worth that. Erat was traded for Forsberg, so trade your blue chip prospect for a veteran I trash regularly on my team's forum. My guy had a really good season back in 2012-13 and it's very likely your blue chip prospect is a complete and utter bust because he hasn't hit the NHL yet, so from my POV it's fair.

I actually had an Avalanche fan tell me I was wrong about valuing Barzal highly last year because more people agreed with his "very likely a bust" assessment of the current Calder favorite, and that nobody (myself included) could have seen his success coming. The need of some people to twist everything into a "win" really gets tedious.

worst part is price isn't even a rental