Toews vs Backstrom

[Bad News Benning]

I don't think that's quite accurate. The number of European captains who had a legitimate shot at a cup are probably no more than a handful. You probably can't look back more than 15 years to find European captains, whereas the entire breadth of NHL history is full of Canadian leaders. Since the fall of communism I'd hazard a guess and say there hasen't been more than 20 European captains in the league, total.

Sundin, Koivu, Forsberg, Lidstrom, Norstrom etc...are all great leaders and I'm sure no one would have any problem with them as captains.

It's only a matter of time before a European captain wins a Cup and I don't think it should be looked upon as a oddity. It's easier to find examples of Canadian leaders because there have been of them throughout the years.

But hey, if Joe Thornton is good Canadian boy you want leading your squad in the playoffs, more power to you. I'll build my team around Forsberg and we'll see which team goes further.

European captains have had plenty of opportunities to get it done, and not one has lead his team to a cup. Please don't give me the "they were a bottom seed stuff" cause each of the last two finals, canadian players have taken average teams to the stanley cup finals. Since my team (the Canucks) have had Markus Naslund as captain, we've one a single playoff round which was only because the Blues were beat up and had the flu go through their lineup. He has yet to put this team on his shoulders in the playoffs and win anything, and I doubt we will ever go anywhere with him as captain. The culture in europe towards the stanley cup will never allow for great leaders like Sakic, every Canadian dreams of winning the stanley cup where as most european players dream of playing in the NHL.

 

[Joretus]

European captains have had plenty of opportunities to get it done, and not one has lead his team to a cup. Please don't give me the "they were a bottom seed stuff" cause each of the last two finals, canadian players have taken average teams to the stanley cup finals.

So now it's reason they had canadian captain. So every team just need Canadian captain.

Why shouldn't every team then just have canadian captain&players, why they are so stupid they are having some loser europeans?

 

[GlueleG]

European captains have had plenty of opportunities to get it done, and not one has lead his team to a cup. Please don't give me the "they were a bottom seed stuff" cause each of the last two finals, canadian players have taken average teams to the stanley cup finals. Since my team (the Canucks) have had Markus Naslund as captain, we've one a single playoff round which was only because the Blues were beat up and had the flu go through their lineup. He has yet to put this team on his shoulders in the playoffs and win anything, and I doubt we will ever go anywhere with him as captain. The culture in europe towards the stanley cup will never allow for great leaders like Sakic, every Canadian dreams of winning the stanley cup where as most european players dream of playing in the NHL.

You can look at it another way too .... there is a MUCH larger number of Canadian Captains who have failed to win the Stanley Cup.

 

[Quiet Robert]

European captains have had plenty of opportunities to get it done, and not one has lead his team to a cup. Please don't give me the "they were a bottom seed stuff" cause each of the last two finals, canadian players have taken average teams to the stanley cup finals. Since my team (the Canucks) have had Markus Naslund as captain, we've one a single playoff round which was only because the Blues were beat up and had the flu go through their lineup. He has yet to put this team on his shoulders in the playoffs and win anything, and I doubt we will ever go anywhere with him as captain. The culture in europe towards the stanley cup will never allow for great leaders like Sakic, every Canadian dreams of winning the stanley cup where as most european players dream of playing in the NHL.

No you're missing the point. The very argument I'm challenging is the "plenty of opportunities" nonsense.

Here is a list of the current European captains in the NHL:

Chara (Named this season)
Lidstrom (Named this season)
Jokinen (Since 2003)
Norstrom (Since 2001)
Koivu (Since 1999)
Timonen (Named this season)
Elias (Named this season)
Yashin (Since 2005)
Jagr (98-01 Pittsburgh, Since this year NYR)
Alfredsson (Since 1999)
Forsberg (Named this season)
Sundin (Since 1997)
Naslund (Since 2000)

You'll notice that plenty of these guys are very new, or haven't been on good teams. Of these, the only ones who have had a legitimate shot of winning the Cup are Alfredsson, and very debatably Naslund and Sundin. Other than that these teams have either been missing the playoffs or have made early exits

The only one who falls under the category of "Euro chocker" is Yashin. (Sorry NYI fans, but a PPG drop like his is unacceptable imo) And even he wasn't captain during his previous playoff performances, so we'll see how he does now, he certainly looks to be leading NYI into a playoff position.

The others have either not been captain long enough, or haven't had legitimate shots at the Cup. Now you're telling me this is an accurate sample for determining a European's heart?

Basically leadership is not determined by birthplace. Historically speaking, Canadians have been more willing to "get their noses dirty" to win, but I think that is changing. Europeans are paying the price in the postseason, and Forsberg, Koivu, Sundin etc...are examples of European guys who have performed well under pressure.

Times have changed. The days of "the Euro" not wanting to compete for the Cup are gone (If they ever really existed-guys like Federov/Fetisov/Larionov didn't want to win???) There might not be as many traditionally gritty Europeans, and this I won't debate, the "grinder" is predominantly a NA player, but Europeans are more than willing to pay the price the win the Cup, and in the next few years we're going to see it, this isn't even debatable.

*I didn't look back further, but I can't really think of many more Europeans who have been captains. I remember Bure being co-captain of the Panthers for a bit. Guys like M. Naslund, Salming etc...were never captains of their teams. I think Mikita was captain for a few seasons though. Kenny Jonsson was captain on the Island for a time as well. Renberg was captain in Tampa as well. There've been others, and you can look them up, but I doubt they're been many.

 

[UvBnDatsyuked]

Canadians simply produce better captains and leaders. Perhaps the culture in Europe makes the players not value the cup as much as Canadians I'm not sure. If I'm going into the playoffs, I want Sakic, Yzerman, Brind'Amour, Smyth, etc leading my team. There has been plenty of euro captains and they've all failed to get it done, give me a call when one of them wins a cup.

Derian Hatcher was the first and I'm pretty sure only US born player to captain a Stanley Cup champion. When I think of great or even good captains, Derian Hatcher doesn't come to mind. Did Dallas win because of their captain? Great leader?
Are some captains wearing the "C" out of longevity with thier current team? Would Yzerman have been decalared a great captain if he was drafted by the Kings and spent his entire career there? (I"m a huge Yzerman fan but I'm not sure he could overcome the mismanagement of some of these NHL franchises if he were to play for them)

A captain is a big piece of the puzzle but it's still just a piece. Darien Hatcher proves that. Andreychuk I think proves that. Dave was the captain out of seniority in my opinion.

The first European captain was Mogilny 15 years ago on an interim basis. Very short history of Euro captains to proclaim that it's their lack of leadership that stands between them and captaining a Stanley Cup champion

 

[Drake1588]

Hypothetically, it would simply be interesting to see how Backstrom would have produced as the top center for Team Canada, and Toews for Sweden.

There is a talent depth discrepancy between the two clubs, to say the least.

Toews certainly passed with flying colors... I'm just not sure how much you can gauge from Backstrom's performance on a very thin team. I'd grade Toews an A and Backstrom an Incomplete, probably, if this tourney is being used as the be all and end all.

If we're going by 2006-07 seasons, Backstrom has certainly produced in the SEL this season over a prolonged stretch of ground, and I'm not sure the same is said for Toews with North Dakota. All depends on your measuring criteria. Both look like awfully good players to me.

 

[Bruins4Lifer]

It looks like it's gonna be close between them both. Backstrom has excellent stickhandling skills and I would say he's a better playmaker than Toews. Toews is the total package and a great two-way player as well as a great sniper. Toews reminds me of a Bergeron-type and will be a great leader. I don't know who to pick.

 

[dieseleric]

Hypothetically, it would simply be interesting to see how Backstrom would have produced as the top center for Team Canada, and Toews for Sweden.

There is a talent depth discrepancy between the two clubs, to say the least.

Toews certainly passed with flying colors... I'm just not sure how much you can gauge from Backstrom's performance on a very thin team. I'd grade Toews an A and Backstrom an Incomplete, probably, if this tourney is being used as the be all and end all.

If we're going by 2006-07 seasons, Backstrom has certainly produced in the SEL this season over a prolonged stretch of ground, and I'm not sure the same is said for Toews with North Dakota. All depends on your measuring criteria. Both look like awfully good players to me.

I am sure that Backstrom would have been able to produce more points on a stronger Canadian team. I believe Backstrom has more offensive upside than Toews.

I believe that what made Toews so impressive though was not only his offensive and power play ability, but his incredibly complete game (good defensively and penalty killing, wins faceoffs, is a leader) and raising his game in key situations.

Both are exceptional players, and will both likely become stars at the next level. I'm a Chicago fan and am very happy with having Toews' rights but would also be very happy to have Backstrom.

 

[Drake1588]

Agreed. It's not so much a question to be asked by Washington (which didn't have a choice) but for Chicago (which did) in the years ahead, but right now, based on their play since the draft, both look like outstanding selections.

 

[SChan*]

backstrom would had thrived on a more talented canada for sure

 

[sonnytheman]

way too hard to decide

but a team that has both of them would be dangerous every year (and a lot of fun to watch!)

 

[CapsWolverinesUSA]

I'd probably lean towards Toews right now, but as a Caps fan, I'm not exactly crying about having to get the consolation prize of Backstrom!! With that skating ability and passing, can you imagine how beautiful the Ovechkin/Backstrom/Fehr line will be in a couple years? Skill, speed, grit, flash out the wazzoo.

 

[ARS]

I've finally found one thing I don't like about Toews


Jonathan Toews joined the group The Ottawa Senators are ****.

 

[Zine]

Both are in opposite situations.
Backstrom is doing insanely well in the SEL - something that is rarely seen for someone his age, yet had a mediocre WJC.
Toews has been painfully average for UND - a team that's seriously underachieving and lacking leadership, yet he stepped it up big time this tourney.

Too tough to call right now.

 

[sansabri]

Toews has the make up of Yzerman/Sakic, he's everything you want in a center IMO. Toews will be a captain in the NHL, I don't think Backstrom has the makeup to captain an NHL team, he'll still be a great player don't get me wrong but never a leader. How many European captains have won a cup? I can't think of any. Bottom line is I want Toews leading my team in the playoffs, not Backstrom. Toews is just one of those special players that doesn't come along very often.

and backstrom has been compared to forsberg.

as far as i know - forsberg > sakic.

 

[SoundwaveIsCharisma]

Backstrom. He didn't play his best hockey and he still skated around the opposition. He has two major problems in my opinion, his skating, it's good but not great. I think with a lot of power skating sessions he could be an amazing skater, we're talking strong, fast, immovable here.

Another thing is that he seemed very hesitant to shoot the puck, I think he would have had a lot more points had he decided to shoot instead of pass the puck, which he did on numerous occassions. Mind you the passes he made looked like sure goals until his teammates came up with some major shankage.

Toews can do a little bit of everything, he can do it well. Backstrom in my opinion is the same, only difference is he is more naturally talented.

 

[Atlas]

Both guys figure to be important pieces at the NHL level. I think Drake makes a great point that if the players swapped teams it is likely that Backstrom would look infinitely better. Canada is so deep and talented that Backstrom would have gotten a lot more help.

I'm happy as can be with Backstrom. My only worry is that he might be a guy who gives up a good scoring chance to make a pass. I watched him do that once against Russia. He had a clear path to the goalie but he circled out instead and tried to make a pass. If the kid can become a goal-scoring threat that would elevate his game big-time and it would give the Caps a legit #1 center.

 

[hockeyfrenchfan]

backstrom is compared to forsberg as henrik zetterberg...

at his age who's the better ?? backstrom or zetterberg?

 

[Joretus]

backstrom is compared to forsberg as henrik zetterberg...

at his age who's the better ?? backstrom or zetterberg?

Bäckström.

 

[Crazyhorse]

backstrom is compared to forsberg as henrik zetterberg...

at his age who's the better ?? backstrom or zetterberg?

The comparisons between Forsberg and Bäckström is only based on the vision and passing. I can't see why people compare him with Zetterberg though, just because he plays PK? He certainly not have Zetterbergs trademark, the skating, thats for sure.

I think Bäckström will have the most upside. He is more offensivly talented, but Toews is the more complete player.

And the leader discussion...

Anyone would say that Hatcher is a better leader then Sundin, just because he won a cup? Ridiculous...

 

[SChan*]

backstrom himself sees the faults with his game which i think is very positive. I also liked that he took much of the blame for the results. He is a very nice guy indeed.

 

[Chimaera]

They're two different players. Toews is billed as a 2 way forward with leadership gifts.

Backstrom as an offensive centerman with very solid passing skills.

All I know is Backstrom is going to look mighty good next year passing layups to Semin or Ovechkin all year. They won't shank like his Swedish teammates seemed to do a few times.

If Backstrom plays like he has the talent to do from the start, you probably can add 10 goals to whoever he plays with out of the two.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

I don't think that's quite accurate. The number of European captains who had a legitimate shot at a cup are probably no more than a handful. You probably can't look back more than 15 years to find European captains, whereas the entire breadth of NHL history is full of Canadian leaders. Since the fall of communism I'd hazard a guess and say there hasen't been more than 20 European captains in the league, total.

Sundin, Koivu, Forsberg, Lidstrom, Norstrom etc...are all great leaders and I'm sure no one would have any problem with them as captains.

It's only a matter of time before a European captain wins a Cup and I don't think it should be looked upon as a oddity. It's easier to find examples of Canadian leaders because there have been of them throughout the years.

But hey, if Joe Thornton is good Canadian boy you want leading your squad in the playoffs, more power to you. I'll build my team around Forsberg and we'll see which team goes further.

I don't disagree with your stance on nationality's role in good captainship, but that's a straw-man argument if I ever saw one. Just because some people might prefer a Canadian captain, it doesn't mean they'd want any Canadian.

Nobody wants Big Joe to lead their team.

 

[Kipper933]

Backstrom is much better than Toews.

 

[usiel]

At the draft I liked both of them so which ever fell to the caps would have been great. I think Backstrom filled more of a need as the caps need a #1 passing center so I think it worked out for both teams.