Line Combos: Toews and Kane need to play together.

[ThatSaid]

It was always our go-to in the clutch. Jamie Benn plays with Seguin. Kucherov plays with Stammer. Getzlaf plays with Perry. When we're down and out in a playoff game, we put them together, and usually something good happens.

Let me preface this by saying that I understand why, in principle, it is better to spread out the talent. Kane is very capable of putting points up on a line by himself, and that has been a great luxury to have over this run. While Kane is still producing at an elite level, I'm sure I'm not the only one who sees how effective other teams have been at keying in on him and limiting his ES opportunities.

Toews on the other hand, well, he needs some help. We need to go on a MASSIVE run to even just sniff a wildcard. That means both Toews and Kane need to be producing at above career average for the remainder of the year. As unlikely as this seems, I would much rather go down doing something different than dragging our feet with the same useless line combos every game. Match-ups be damned, it's time to finally see what kind of damage Kane and Toews can do together, especially when you consider how off Anisimov has looked since he got back from injury. Kane and Schmaltz have been having to hold the puck up and wait 2-3 seconds on every entry just waiting for Anisimov to catch up to the play.

So here is my attempt at forward line combos to shake things up. I welcome your comments. Please try to keep it positive. I know the playoffs are a long-shot at this point, but we should be doing everything possible to make that slim chance a reality:

DeBrincat - Toews - Kane
Hinostroza - Schmaltz - Duclair
Saad - Anisimov - Hartman
Sharp - Kampf - Jurco

Thoughts?

Click to read more...

 

[migi]

Well our best C is already playing with Kane so..

But yeah, probably there is a case going ”nuclear” but I’d rather stick with what we have now and build chemistry. But please Cat with Kane.

If Kane with Toews:

Saad - Toews - Kane (vs. Ducks 2015)
DeBrincat - Schmaltz - Duclair (could be a lot of fun)
Sikura - Anisimov - Hinostroza
Hartman - Kampf - Jurco

 

[ThatSaid]

Well our best C is already playing with Kane so..

But yeah, probably there is a case going ”nuclear” but I’d rather stick with what we have now and build chemistry. But please Cat with Kane.

If Kane with Toews:

Saad - Toews - Kane (vs. Ducks 2015)
DeBrincat - Schmaltz - Duclair (could be a lot of fun)
Sikura - Anisimov - Hinostroza
Hartman - Kampf - Jurco

I don't mind these combos either. I also agree that Schmaltz has been our best center. But without Toews producing, this team goes nowhere. I don't personally care if we have to baby Toews and give him Kane. If nothing else, it would be a huge confidence boost for him.

I also think Kane and DeBrincat should always be playing together, especially now that DeBrincat has figured out he can snipe it in this league too. In the small samples we've seen with those together, Cat was forcing the puck to Kane too much. He should just take advantage of players keying in on Kane and walk it in. No idea why they ever play apart to be honest. They seem like on paper they would click even better than Panarin-Kane.

I like Saad with Anisimov though. I think if they can both crowd the net and take shots from in close, or even kick it back to the point and park, they should be effective. Hartman on that line to grind the puck out of the corners.

I was just going with what we had called up, but Sikura could be an interesting addition. I think I'd rather see Hayden called back up and keep Sharp scratched. Need some possession from the 4th line, and I think at this point in time Hayden just brings more to the table.

I think Hino-Schmaltz-Duclair has a lot of potential. Hino and Schmaltz are both great at creating turnovers in transition, and that combined with the speed on that line should create a more than serviceable 2nd line, even sans Kane.

Who knows though?

 

[Pez68]

I think putting Toews with Kane at this point just makes this team worse... Toews is playing like a 3rd/4th liner. Especially the last couple weeks. He is doing nothing to help Kane. He can't even pass well.

Hartman/Schmaltz/Kane (if Hartman plays like he did last game)
Duclair/Kampf/DeBrincat (speed)
Wingels/Toews/Jurco (shutdown(aka offensively useless)
Saad/Anisimov/Hinostroza (interesting)

 

[TQE]

Why not? It's only fair to point out though that the last few times they've gone to the Toews and Kane together well it's been bone dry.

But, if they do it, I'd prefer Cat with them. Hino with Schmaltz and Duclair. Saad-Anisimov-Hartman. I'd call Hayden back up and maybe bring Highmore up with him to play with Kampf.

 

[ThatSaid]

I think putting Toews with Kane at this point just makes this team worse... Toews is playing like a 3rd/4th liner. Especially the last couple weeks. He is doing nothing to help Kane. He can't even pass well.

Hartman/Schmaltz/Kane (if Hartman plays like he did last game)
Duclair/Kampf/DeBrincat (speed)
Wingels/Toews/Jurco (shutdown(aka offensively useless)
Saad/Anisimov/Hinostroza (interesting)

I get it, but at this point, I don't think its even possible for us to play worse. Toews' bad play is kind of my point. We pay the guy 10.5 AAV, and we can't afford to just bury him. If we do that, we may as well just ride into the sunset with the great memories. Toews certainly doesn't MERIT playing with Kane. But to say Toews is useless is pretty premature at this point. We all know that Toews is a bit of a headcase, and if you look at his body language lately, you can tell he's fighting it. Give him a 10 game stretch with Kane and see what happens. At this point, why not?

 

[Pez68]

I think he needs to be scratched, personally. They've done everything in their power to get him going. The effort just isn't there. Maybe if you chop that ego down a few notches, the Toews of old shows up. Maybe not.

I'll tell you one thing. Toews sitting a game sure as hell isn't going to make or break this team's playoff chances.

 

[jls24]

I would reunite Toews and Saad but change their deployment. Basically them and the Kampf line splitting shutdown duties at around 15min each. I hate to break up the Kampf line but Hino deserves top 6 min.

Cat-AA-Kane
Hino-Schmaltz-Duke
Saad-Toews-X
X-Kampf-Jurco

X=Sharp, Hartman, Wingles, Sikura, Hayden

D pairings are the much bigger problem with this team though.

Keith-Murphy
Kempny-Rutta
Gus-Oesterle/Seabs

If Seabs plays you fire Q mid-game the second he his 15:01 of ice time.

This doesn't fix systems which is the biggest problem right now but it's clear they have no intention of that.

 

[Pez68]

I would reunite Toews and Saad but change their deployment. Basically them and the Kampf line splitting shutdown duties at around 15min each. I hate to break up the Kampf line but Hino deserves top 6 min.

Cat-AA-Kane
Hino-Schmaltz-Duke
Saad-Toews-X
X-Kampf-Jurco

X=Sharp, Hartman, Wingles, Sikura, Hayden

D pairings are the much bigger problem with this team though.

Keith-Murphy
Kempny-Rutta
Gus-Oesterle/Seabs

If Seabs plays you fire Q mid-game the second he his 15:01 of ice time.

This doesn't fix systems which is the biggest problem right now but it's clear they have no intention of that.

This is pretty interesting. Not sure I like breaking up Schmaltz/Kane, but Schmaltz is driving that line just as much as Kane right now. Maybe this helps out two lines.

I also think Hartman has earned a bump. He had a damn good game the other night. In a game where not many guys did. If he's playing like he did last game...he's a huge bonus to the Schmaltz/Kane line. He will go to the dirty areas, and he has the speed to actually get there. Anisimov is obviously still getting over whatever LBI he had.

 

[ThatSaid]

I would reunite Toews and Saad but change their deployment. Basically them and the Kampf line splitting shutdown duties at around 15min each. I hate to break up the Kampf line but Hino deserves top 6 min.

Cat-AA-Kane
Hino-Schmaltz-Duke
Saad-Toews-X
X-Kampf-Jurco

X=Sharp, Hartman, Wingles, Sikura, Hayden

D pairings are the much bigger problem with this team though.

Keith-Murphy
Kempny-Rutta
Gus-Oesterle/Seabs

If Seabs plays you fire Q mid-game the second he his 15:01 of ice time.

This doesn't fix systems which is the biggest problem right now but it's clear they have no intention of that.

You'll see no argument from me on the latter point. No question that the offense is hindered by the D-pairings. I was mostly concerned with forward line combos ITT though, cause even with effective pairings on the back end I don't feel our forwards are on the correct lines. I find your forward combos interesting, but I'm just not sure Anisimov can carry that kind of offensive workload this year. He needs an offseason to hopefully return to form.

I still think it's too early to bury Toews. This team absolutely NEEDS him to play like a top-6 center again, and I think Kane and Cat are the best opportunity for that to happen this year. Doesn't mean I'm confident it would fix our offense, as there are a lot of other (Q!) factors in play. I just think we need him to be successful, and if we're going to go down, we should go down trying to return some confidence to our captain.

 

[b1e9a8r5s]

I have found it interesting that for the past few years it was just assumed that Toews and Kane wouldn't/shouldn't play together, after they played together for a large part of their earlier careers. I really don't have a strong opinion either way, but given Q's propensity to change things up, it seemed odd that they were always apart.

 

[b1e9a8r5s]

I think putting Toews with Kane at this point just makes this team worse... Toews is playing like a 3rd/4th liner. Especially the last couple weeks. He is doing nothing to help Kane. He can't even pass well.

Hartman/Schmaltz/Kane (if Hartman plays like he did last game)
Duclair/Kampf/DeBrincat (speed)
Wingels/Toews/Jurco (shutdown(aka offensively useless)
Saad/Anisimov/Hinostroza (interesting)

In what world is Kampf and his 6 pts considered more of an offensive threat than Toews? I understand everyone's frustration with Toews game and I share it too. But putting him below Kampf in terms of offensive roles just seems like cutting off your nose to spite your face.

 

[AmericanDream]

can anyone recall the last time a team Captain was just scratched for bad performance? Not because of off-ice issues, but because of performance? Maybe it happens more than one realizes, but I really can't think of many...maybe Dustin Brown got scratched a few times a few years back as the Captain for the Kings...outside of that I can't recall, so I doubt Toews ever gets scratched.

 

[Pez68]

In what world is Kampf and his 6 pts considered more of an offensive threat than Toews? I understand everyone's frustration with Toews game and I share it too. But putting him below Kampf in terms of offensive roles just seems like cutting off your nose to spite your face.

Well, they both have 3 points in their last 11 games. And Kampf actually appears to be giving 100% out there. So there's that.

can anyone recall the last time a team Captain was just scratched for bad performance? Not because of off-ice issues, but because of performance? Maybe it happens more than one realizes, but I really can't think of many...maybe Dustin Brown got scratched a few times a few years back as the Captain for the Kings...outside of that I can't recall, so I doubt Toews ever gets scratched.

No, but I can't recall a captain looking so disinterested, either.

 

[b1e9a8r5s]

Well, they both have 3 points in their last 11 games. And Kampf actually appears to be giving 100% out there. So there's that.

And Toews, while "not caring" is on pace for 52 pts. No wonder he's a top 100 player of All time.

 

[ThatSaid]

I didn't really want this to devolve into a Toews bashing thread. No doubt he needs to do better, and hey, I'm a Chicago sports fan who believes in accountability. I wouldn't be necessarily against him being scratched somewhere down the line if all other options are exhausted. I just don't think we're there yet. Remember, the guy captained us to three cups, and he's still pretty young. Let's not all write him off just because he'll likely never live up to the contract Stan gave him. Let's try to put him in the best possible situation to succeed. Our season is pretty much a write-off at this point. I can't see any harm in trying to shelter him and throwing him with Kane for the rest of the season.

We all know hockey isn't a zero-sum game. Toews and Kane has historically been better than the sum of its parts. Let's try to get that spark back. That's all I'm saying.

 

[Pez68]

He's been awful the last 3 games. Three games the Hawks really, really needed if they are going to have a shot at the playoffs. I will be shocked if he breaks 50 points this season.

I'm not against trying to get him going by putting him with Kane. I just don't think it's going to make a difference. Regardless, Q isn't going to do it, anyway. He just won't play them together.

Other teams are not matching their best defenders up against the Toews' line right now... Calgary actually targeted that line with the Monahan line, since they were kicking their ass up and down the ice. He will only get tougher matchups if he plays with Kane... Which is why I see it having the opposite effect.

 

[Enyaw]

Q to Kane: " Im putting Toews on your line"

Kane: "what the hell did I do wrong?"

 

[Rolo]

Not really a fan of this idea, but I would likely do:

Hartman-Toews-Kane
Saad-Schmaltz-Hinostroza
Debrincat-Anisimov-Duclair
Jurco-Kampf-Wingels

 

[ThatSaid]

Not really a fan of this idea, but I would likely do:

Hartman-Toews-Kane
Saad-Schmaltz-Hinostroza
Debrincat-Anisimov-Duclair
Jurco-Kampf-Wingels

Probably better possession lines than I proposed in the OP. I like the idea of having a guy good in the corner on every line. Still want Kane with a winger who can pot his cross-ice passes, and Hartman just hasn't had much luck finding the net lately. Also would prefer the Cat with someone of higher playmaking ability.

 

[Rolo]

Probably better possession lines than I proposed in the OP. I like the idea of having a guy good in the corner on every line. Still want Kane with a winger who can pot his cross-ice passes, and Hartman just hasn't had much luck finding the net lately. Also would prefer the Cat with someone of higher playmaking ability.

Ultimately I don't think Kane can even save Toews at this point..

Unless there was another Kane tier player on the LW (example: Stamkos-Toews-Kucherov or Benn-Toews-Seguin)

I think he is what he is now, a 45-55 point player, who is solid on faceoffs, PK, good at defense, 2nd line C.

This is why I am hoping Sikura develops into a C, rather then a LW, since we have an abundance of wingers in the system.

Debrincat-Schmaltz-Kane
Saad-Sikura-Duclair
Hartman-Toews-Hinostroza
Highmore-Kampf-Hayden

(assuming Anisimov traded)

 

[hawksfan50]

Well..Neither Toews nor Kane has been good the lastt 11 games which were crucial to get back I the playoff race...but we lost most of them because our big stats just were not starring ..Toews has been awful for 2 season plus now mist of this season too ..This nuclear idea was nuclear 4 years ago and before if postulated. .but since Toews went to Machu Picchu his game went to hell ..lost his stardom. .first dropped to meh level. .now ...not even 4th liner NHL .level ..his okay is a disgrace in that nowhere near a $10.5 ROI ..in fact not even tge $6.3 level he was at before in prior contract ..He may not even get to 50 points if his poor production pace continues. ...But . Even Kane is WY off "misdion " level Kane..he knows Hawks were going nowhere ..so why even try to carry the team on his back?I would not expect any improvement if you put them back o the same line.

 

[CokenoPepsi]

That is not fair to Kane, he deserves better

 

[hawksfan50]

Just wondering..We are last in Central ..How many 1st round forwards since Kane was drafted, currently on the rostersvtop Central teams ahead of us..?How many 1st round Dmen on rosters of these teams ahead of us via the Central since Kane was drafted (since the draft after Kane was drafted? ) and how many first round forwards and Dmen are on our roster since we drafted Kane?This alone may explain a lot ...Yes...we always drafted late in the round when we had first rounders and teams above us mow had usually better first round draft slots..still it would be interesting to see how first round draftees on other teams in the Central drafted since we drafted Kane have impacted our Central opponent's success this season vs. hehe first rounders we currently have on our team since the Kane draft
(Include first rounders we drafted still on the team plus any first rounders we got by trade still on the team today).

So in 10 drafts fromm 2008 thru 2017 we could have had 10 chances to add first rounders who ought to be in our lineup (maybe discountingbthevladtc2 drafts who might be too soon to arrive at tge NHL yet..except that some first rounders from 2016cand 2017 might already be on thevrosterscofvother Central teams. ..so count all 10 drafts and show all the numberscofvfirstsvonneach Central team roster cuurently) Of course we traded some firsts away and did not get call 10 chances as a result ..but still thebobjectvisctovsee if we maximized our normal planned 10 chances in thus period vs. The normal 10 chances of our opponents ..In other words even 8f say tean× in the Central got 10 chances to take first rounders (2 extra via trade) and if Team B only had chances causevtgey traded 2 away ..it does not really matter. ...10 drafts..how many total first rounders taken from these 10 drafts from 2008 thru 2017 are on our roster vs mother Central teams rosters?That probably telksvyoubabout current power ranking in the Central ...Simply..our opponents probably show a lot better results than us...we have ONLY 1 ....Nick Schmaltz. SO very little infusion help for Toews and Kane from our drafting where first rounds ought to ve the story of most help improvement or not.

Did we squander vourdaon chances to help TV and via the draft based on just first rounders?

 

[Conrad McBenis]

Correct title of this thread should be: "Toews needs to play for Winnipeg this season".