plank
Registered User
He visited me and told me to say that on HF Boards.
Glad to see a sense of humour, between that post and the Q is trying to keep Kane down line, I was questioning you sanity.
Speculation: Toews and Kane extensions
- Thread starter Illinihockey
- Start date
Glad to see a sense of humour, between that post and the Q is trying to keep Kane down line, I was questioning you sanity.
HjalmarFan
Registered User
It seems to be the common sense opinion that Patrick Kane is worth more than Jonathan Toews. This is completely false. Jonathan Toews is a +127, penalty killing, faceoff winning center.
Anyone who would rather have Kane than Toews is not serious.
If given the choice between Ovechkin or Crosby, I'd pick Toews, Perry or Datsuk.
Anyone who would rather have Kane than Toews is not serious.
If given the choice between Ovechkin or Crosby, I'd pick Toews, Perry or Datsuk.
1. Crosby
2. Datsyuk in his prime
3. Ovechkin
4. Toews
5. Perry
Patrick Kane is capable of being better than Toews and he is much better this year. Overall, I would draft Toews ahead of Kane that's me personally. Patrick Kane making more money than Toews has a good chance of happening. Comparing their games is just ridiculous they are completely different. Measuring who I would pay more I think Kane deserves 500,000 more a season than Toews.
HjalmarFan
Registered User
Yes, in 2010, the Sharks made us choose between Niemi and Hjalmarsson. I fear that the Hawks may face a similar choice between Saad and Leddy.
Kurtosis
GHG
I doubt it. They have pieces they can move for relief. Someone like Oduya would be really easy to pawn off.
Kurtosis
GHG
There's no hoping for me at least. They aren't losing either. They have expiring contracts and assets eating up cap space they can move enabling them to re-sign both. It isn't an issue in my mind.
The amazing fact about current team is they have already won 2 cups with the key nucleus.The team of Bobby Hull Stan makita Piere Pilot who won 3 norris and the great goalie Glen Hall.They won 1 single cup.Impossible to believe
HjalmarFan
Registered User
I think you're probably right. The only player they really need to bring back after this year is Raanta, and I'm using the word "need" loosely. Morin, Pirri, and Smith should all come back with a basic offer sheet. Bollig can come back cheap or walk, makes no difference to me. I'm seeing this team coming back next year at 69 million, maybe less, depending on how much Raanta needs to be paid. I'm picturing something like 3 yrs, 6 million.
Assuming you let both Oduya and Roszival walk, that clears 5.5 million. And hopefully, you get another 8 million in cap expansion.
So I think you have maybe 13 million to distribute between Kane, Toews, Saad, Leddy, two defensemen (Perhaps Clendening and Dahlbeck) and 3-4 third and fourth liners. That's a tight squeeze. If Kane and Toews have caphits pushing 10 million, that would mean 3.7 m more for each (7.4 between them). Saad has probably 3-4 million coming his way. Leddy perhaps has another 1 to 1.5 million coming.
That puts you right up there. And you've still got to think about Kruger, two defensemen, a second line center (probably Terravainen or McNeill), and 2-3 third and fourth liners.
I see four possibilities:
1) the cap expands more than I am estimating,
2) Toews, Kane, Saad and Leddy collectively get less money than I am estimating,
3) they clear a major salary off the books (e.g. Hossa, Seabrook, Bickell, Crawford),
4) Somebody offer-sheets Saad or Leddy and they lose him.
Every year I make the same prediction, and every year I'm right:
This season, Patrick Kane will score more points than Jonathan Toews, but Jonathan Toews will be more important to the team's success.
HjalmarFan
Registered User
I understand your feelings, but there's no way. They Hawks are almost certainly not bringing back Oduya or Roszival. And Keith and Seabrook aren't getting any younger. Saad might be a better player, but he's more expendable than Leddy. I feel sure that Stan Bowman would choose Leddy over Saad if it came down to that.
I'm not sure. Saad has shown much faster progression than Leddy has in much less time. Hossa isn't getting any younger, and Saad is basically a proto-Hossa waiting in the wings to take that spot when Hossa finally calls it a career (which, don't fool yourself, is going to happen before his contract is up, probably courtesy of LTIR).
Leddy is still problematic under a forecheck. He has tremendous offensive upside but is still, STILL being sheltered as far as zone starts and match-ups. We're not going to re-up a guy that can't move past the 5th defensemen slot for a ton of money. At least I hope not.
Kurtosis
GHG
Keith has at least 5 great seasons ahead of him the way he plays. Seabrook should be good for at least 4. The window is wide open.
HjalmarFan
Registered User
Assuming they were all in the same 18 y.o. draft class and that I have my current perspective on their careers, I would choose them in the following order...
1. Toews
2. Datsyuk
3. Crosby
4. Perry
5. Stamkos
6. Hossa
I don't want ANYTHING to do with Ovechkin, who makes too much money, doesn't backcheck or penalty kill, and is simply all flash and no substance. I don't think a team in the salary cap era can win with Alex Ovechkin on it.
I think Mike Babcock perfectly defined Jonathan Toews' existence during the 2010 Olympics when he said his best player was anyone who he put on the Toews line. Toews makes everyone around him better. And I don't mean that in some esoteric leadership sense. He wins faceoffs, back checks, goes to dirty areas, wins board battles, and it's simply impossible to see that game-in-game-out, see how it pays off and not imitate it. Jonathan Toews is Death To Hockey Punks.
Without Toews and Hossa, I think Kane would be just another Edmonton Oilers type punk.
Kurtosis
GHG
Kurtosis
GHG
HjalmarFan
Registered User
Defensemen often take longer to develop, and the development in Leddy's game has been tremendous. He's come a long way since the 11-12 season when they prematurely tried to put him into Campbell's role. Do you remember that? The only reason Leddy hasn't moved past the 5th slot is because the Blackhawks have an utterly ridiculous top four.
Don't forget that Bowman let Ladd, Versteeg, Byfuglien and Niemi go in order to keep Hjalmarsson who was older**, less accomplished, and had less upside than Nick Leddy. There is no way that Bowman keeps Saad over Leddy. I think he'll find a way to keep both, but I feel certain that Leddy is going nowhere.
I mean, Stan Bowman let go of Ladd and Niemi to keep Hjalmarsson. His priorities are pretty clear.
**CORRECTION: Hjalmarsson was younger in 2010 than Leddy and Saad will be when their contracts expire. Oops.
Last edited:
HjalmarFan
Registered User
When you look at the Anaheim roster, how do you explain the fact that they are 57-19-11 in the last two years (125 pts in 87 games)? They also have the remarkable distinction of being 4-0-0 against the Blackhawks over that time.
Corey Perry is an absolute beast. I have nightmares about that guy. I am tempted to put him first on this list. I would much sooner move him up than down. He simply takes over hockey games.
HjalmarFan
Registered User
Kurtosis
GHG
Blue Liner
Registered User
massivegoonery
Registered User
HjalmarFan
Registered User
I really like two way play and, for all it's flaws, corsi.
When I watch Anaheim play, I see just a few players turning a fairly weak roster into the second best team in the NHL. I'm very big on Perry and also Getzlaf. They are the only team that I can see knocking off the Hawks. I don't think anyone in the NHL gives the Hawks fits like Perry. And it's not just a strange matchup (like the trouble the Hawks have sometimes had with Edmonton or Colorado). Perry is just really good.
