Tocchet?

[Honour Over Glory]

A lot of this team lacks motivation. The stars don't, because well...the game comes easier to them because they're talented and they work hard and that's a good combo to have. But for the others that need more guidance, Recchi is not drawing from a lot of Assistant Coaching experience here, Tocchet likely worked better because of his experience and being able to handle players better.

Tocchet has also done well with young players, he knows what needs to be identified to sort things out and to me that is a guy that is better when his role is specialized, as a Head Coach when he has to oversee everything, that is where he more or less is not good. But as an AM, when you define his role as player development, powerplay, etc...then he seems to do well.

I have never been a fan of Rex and not because its Rex, but because he literally came with ZERO professional coaching experience. None.

He was literally hired because of his ties to the team, that is it.

 

[Peat]

I have never been a fan of Rex and not because its Rex, but because he literally came with ZERO professional coaching experience. None.

He was literally hired because of his ties to the team, that is it.

Three years as a player development coach isn't quite zero, but it is the next closest thing and I think there's something to this.

When you compare him to Tocchet, its like a company lost a seasoned department manager and promoted an intern who'd just finished university to take their place. With Gonchar being in a similar position. Its not hard to imagine how this might be a weakness.

 

[Jacob]

Tocchet is an upgrade over Recchi but there are better candidates for assistant than Tocchet.

I’d hire Kevin Dineen. He & Sullivan should be familiar with each other from Chicago.

 

[Shady Machine]

Tocchet is whatever.

He is not the difference.

THANK YOU!

 

[Shady Machine]

What makes Recchi a bad assistant coach?

What makes Tocchet a bad head coach but a good assistant coach?


I’m trying to figure out this master plan where people are getting fired all over the place.

Nobody knows. They just make shit up and speak in absolutes about things they don't understand. Tocchet is a more dynamic personality and a better interview than Recchi, so people assume Tocchet is awesome and Recchi sucks.

 

[Shady Machine]

Your boy Tocchet just did to Strome (3OA pick, 20 year old PPG AHL pace as a C) the same thing you’re whining Sully did to Sprong. They then traded him. Stop acting like Sullivan isnt the much better coach with 2 Cups and has some agenda to ruin Sprong and the young talent. Every coach in the league does it.

Quoting just so more people see this.

 

[Shady Machine]

Honestly, Recchi is a punk *** ***** who was a ****ing weasel as a player and I don't trust him not to backstab the second it's safe for his fake toughguy acting *** to do so.

I have none of the above feelings about Tocchet.

That's why he would be better than Recchi. In my opinion. In any capacity.

If you need someone to explain the scope of responsibility differences, and how someone may handle one level better than another level, between head coaching and assistant coaching, I can't help you.

lol.

 

[Shady Machine]

Three years as a player development coach isn't quite zero, but it is the next closest thing and I think there's something to this.

When you compare him to Tocchet, its like a company lost a seasoned department manager and promoted an intern who'd just finished university to take their place. With Gonchar being in a similar position. Its not hard to imagine how this might be a weakness.

Yet they have one of the most experienced coaches in the game as the other assistant. It's totally possible Recchi is a downgrade over Tocchet (probably likely given experience gap as you mentioned), but it's very hard to quantify the difference. Since we aren't privy to anything going on behind the scenes, it's nearly impossible for us to analyze performance of assistant coaches with any credibility.

 

[ncm7772]

I think Tocchet was a great assistant coach. However, I don't typically like "going back to the past." Ray Shero and now Jim Rutherford love this. I hate it.

With that being said, it's widely believed that most of the team liked and bought into what Tocchet was selling. I'd "take him back."

 

[Peat]

Yet they have one of the most experienced coaches in the game as the other assistant. It's totally possible Recchi is a downgrade over Tocchet (probably likely given experience gap as you mentioned), but it's very hard to quantify the difference. Since we aren't privy to anything going on behind the scenes, it's nearly impossible for us to analyze performance of assistant coaches with any credibility.

Oh, impossible to quantify properly. We are the proverbial blind men around an elephant here.

We can kinda feel the shape of it though. We don't know the answers but it is (imo) fair to say that it looks like there's a question.

edit: p.s. re Martin's experience - this is true but it only takes removing one wheel from a car to make the thing pretty useless. Sometimes its like that with people. Again, we don't know, but its possible.

 

[Darren McCord]

Quoting just so more people see this.

To be honest this thread had nothing to do with Sprong until some poster brought him up for some reason like every other thread. This thread was purely about whether Tocchet would be a good addition if he was fired.

Not every thread has to be a bout Daniel Sprong. In fact this is more about getting players like Rust, Sheahan, Cullen, and Brassard going. I would say Kessel needs to get going to. He is putting up points but when he isn't with Malkin he is not producing outside of the PP.

 

[Pancakes]

Tocchet is whatever. People cling to what we did with the 2 Cup wins. Should we bring back Bonino too?

How is Cullen working this time around?

It's awesome we won 2 Cups but time to move on. Ever forward in this league. And that includes Sullivan. If he keeps struggling the leash should be short, 2 Cups or no. I'd give him this year as a mulligan but beyond that he gets no rope from me.

 

[Darren McCord]

How is Cullen working this time around?

I agree to a certain extent but comparing players to coaches is apple to oranges. Tocchet isn't skating out there trying to keep up with players 20 years younger than him.

 

[vodeni]

discussion about merits of assistant coaches in hockey is probably the most mystifying topic on these boards. Its like discussing the afterlife: pure speculation...

 

[Shady Machine]

To be honest this thread had nothing to do with Sprong until some poster brought him up for some reason like every other thread. This thread was purely about whether Tocchet would be a good addition if he was fired.

Not every thread has to be a bout Daniel Sprong. In fact this is more about getting players like Rust, Sheahan, Cullen, and Brassard going. I would say Kessel needs to get going to. He is putting up points but when he isn't with Malkin he is not producing outside of the PP.

I know, but it got hijacked by those that think Sully is ruining a top prospect. The poster I quoted made a very fair counter point that Tocchet also "ruined" an even better prospect and they shipped him out of town.

To your original point, if Tocchet was fired, I'd be moderately interested in bringing him back as an assistant.

 

[Peat]

I know, but it got hijacked by those that think Sully is ruining a top prospect. The poster I quoted made a very fair counter point that Tocchet also "ruined" an even better prospect and they shipped him out of town.

To your original point, if Tocchet was fired, I'd be moderately interested in bringing him back as an assistant.

Now I'm imagining turning Sprong + ZAR into someone like Schmaltz and it would be so good and I feel sad that it will never happen and this is all your fault.

Well. Your plural I guess. You didn't make the comparison. You just reminded me of it.

 

[HandshakeLine]

I hesitate to call Tocchet a "great" assistant coach for the simple reason that none of us actually know what the hell his duties were here when he was an AC.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Three years as a player development coach isn't quite zero, but it is the next closest thing and I think there's something to this.

When you compare him to Tocchet, its like a company lost a seasoned department manager and promoted an intern who'd just finished university to take their place. With Gonchar being in a similar position. Its not hard to imagine how this might be a weakness.

Sergei Gonchar spent some time in some coaching capacity with being an assistant to Martin before he was made a proper assistant. Even now, he's a guy that has to answer to Martin who answers to Sullivan. Recchi?

Recchi got his job because he's got Mario on speed dial and asked him for a job in their Whatsapp Group chat.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Tocchet is an upgrade over Recchi but there are better candidates for assistant than Tocchet.

I’d hire Kevin Dineen. He & Sullivan should be familiar with each other from Chicago.

I wanted Ulf Samuelsson the moment he became available, just reading up on his "coaching philosophy" it's very much in line with what Sullivan is wanting to do and did but then kind of lost it this season and parts of last season.

Oddly enough, Dineen and Ulf were both let go with JQ.

I hesitate to call Tocchet a "great" assistant coach for the simple reason that none of us actually know what the hell his duties were here when he was an AC.

There was an interview or something to that extent when players were talking about the coaching staff and a lot of players mentioned Tocchet as well, I think even Sullivan talked about Tocchet as the buffer the players need from him. Tocchet isn't an amazing assistant coach, but when you have a good fit, that's all that matters.

It's like anything to do with chemistry with even players, it matters with coaching staff as well. Recchi doesn't have "a style" as he was a player development guy, he did not spend any time behind the bench and should have at the AHL level for even 2yrs to start before anything. Tocchet has a style, it worked with Sullivan and he seemed like a good buffer between players and head coach and a lot of players liked that.

 

[ronduguayshair]

I hesitate to call Tocchet a "great" assistant coach for the simple reason that none of us actually know what the hell his duties were here when he was an AC.

Exactly

 

[froods]

I think Tocchet was a great assistant coach. However, I don't typically like "going back to the past." Ray Shero and now Jim Rutherford love this. I hate it.

With that being said, it's widely believed that most of the team liked and bought into what Tocchet was selling. I'd "take him back."

Because of Cullen? At the league min?

 

[LOGiK]

Trade Sully for Tocchet. This would be the second time in my life that we traded for Tocchet that I would be head over hills about. And both times, Recchi leaves as well.

How exactly does one get his 'head over his heels'? Heels over head I can see, but head over heels doesn't compute.

 

[LOGiK]

People act like they know what assistant coaches do but they have no real clue. I mean we know Recchi is in charge of the power play. It’s good. I’d guess it’s better than it was here with Tocchet.

Also I take nothing away from Tocchet head coaching record. He was a lame duck coach in Tampa and AZ has a flawed lineup.

If anything we see he couldn’t get top notch young talent to produce (Domi and strome).

Tocchet patched up the rift from between the players and the coach. Tocchet mainly dealt in keeping Phil happy from the Sullivan dictatorship. Outside of this I know less than Jon Snow.

 

[HandshakeLine]

I mean, usually people ARE head over hills, unless you done f***ed up pretty badly.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

THANK YOU!

Who else is a better bookie?

You know nothing.