Just throwing this out there, and I know it hasn't been too long at this point, but to date, only 2 of the players in your list there have won a Stanley Cup, and one of those players was on the 3rd line as a rookie and traded only two years later.
To Tank or To Tank
- Thread starter kihei
- Start date
Just throwing this out there, and I know it hasn't been too long at this point, but to date, only 2 of the players in your list there have won a Stanley Cup, and one of those players was on the 3rd line as a rookie and traded only two years later.
Mess
Global Moderator
Bobcock has a strong ego and beliefs in his abilities to be a difference maker.
I think he is looking forward to the challenge of getting this team to put in an honest effort each night and I believe he thinks he is going to surprise some with the results he gets out of this roster as he has a pretty veteran roster to work with.
He set expectations low and then going to shoot towards a shock and aw result.
I think he is looking forward to the challenge of getting this team to put in an honest effort each night and I believe he thinks he is going to surprise some with the results he gets out of this roster as he has a pretty veteran roster to work with.
He set expectations low and then going to shoot towards a shock and aw result.
WilliamNylander
Papi's home
- Jul 26, 2012
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Thats true and you are right - tanking alone won't build a contender. But its hard to argue that the players who go 1/2 overall are not better than the ones that go a few picks later in most drafts.
My point was just that losing a lot and setting yourself up with a first or second overall pick instead of a fifth or seventh pick gives you a better chance of getting an elite talent. Gems can still be found later in the draft - just more of a sure bet to get them at pick one or two.
Trapper
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- Nov 21, 2013
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The Devils compete every night. They have an excellent defensive system and goaltending. They are not usually out of games.
However, they can't score much and are average in whole. Their system compensated for a lot of that. As a team they support that well. Blue collar. They gave up 42 less goals than we did.
Finished the season with 78 points, 6th last in the league.
Even at Babcock's best (barring some ultra career years), I put us right around here.
if we get Chychrun, we are laughing all the way to the bank, next season could see: Stamkos 
, Marner, Nylander, Kapenen, Brown, Percy, Harrington etc etc all fulltime NHLers. Adding Chychrun on the back-end Leafs would instantly have a playoff bound team in 2-3 years (this also doesn't include possibly returns for JVR/Bozak/Phaneuf/Lupul/ rental players/ players who surprise etc etc)
, Marner, Nylander, Kapenen, Brown, Percy, Harrington etc etc all fulltime NHLers. Adding Chychrun on the back-end Leafs would instantly have a playoff bound team in 2-3 years (this also doesn't include possibly returns for JVR/Bozak/Phaneuf/Lupul/ rental players/ players who surprise etc etc)
Mess
Global Moderator
The 6-7 years of the Burke/Nonis rebuild was a complete waste leaving the Leafs with very little to work with, and most of the vets that Leafs would actually like to move out like Phaneuf, Bozak and Lupul but with little to no trade interest from others.
However these players while still here have the potential to impact any "tank" by producing points. If they were actually dealt for futures and Leafs playing the kids the results would be lower, but Babcock is going to play to win every minute he is behind the bench and I think the results are going to be better than most suspect.
Rielly might be the only player on the Leafs roster under 24 and Leafs added vets 30+ years old in Paranteau, Winnik, Hunwick etc
I agree in relationship to other teams Leafs on paper are not a very good team.
legendinblue
NHL in Seattle
With Babcock they will play hard. But looking at the roster as of now they will be bad, very bad. We should hope for a bottom 4 finish.
colchar
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- Apr 26, 2012
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Worth wild? Please tell me you meant to type 'worthwhile' and auto-correct screwed you.
I don't really care where we finish, because our rebuild will continue regardless. It's not about tanking for high picks- that obviously doesn't work. Edmonton is a prime example, though their unbelievable uselessness landed them McDavid and finally new hope.
Tanking won't solve this. It'll just instill more negativity into the club. Fighting to win and losing due to roster weakness is acceptable/ and I think what everyone means when they say pain is coming.
And hell, let's say we squeak into the playoffs- that would be awesome! It would be great for guys like Winnik, Parenteau, Polak, Lupul, etc. it would be their victory.
And for the youngsters, it would be a great experience and opportunity to show off. We can still ship away guys before/after the draft for picks/prospects. (And, if we made the playoffs these guys would have to have some great years, giving their value a nice little bump).
We won't tank. We'll compete. It may not be pretty, but it's about time this team felt the need to try. Babcock will bring that, and their long term sustainable plan will be followed.
Tanking won't solve this. It'll just instill more negativity into the club. Fighting to win and losing due to roster weakness is acceptable/ and I think what everyone means when they say pain is coming.
And hell, let's say we squeak into the playoffs- that would be awesome! It would be great for guys like Winnik, Parenteau, Polak, Lupul, etc. it would be their victory.
And for the youngsters, it would be a great experience and opportunity to show off. We can still ship away guys before/after the draft for picks/prospects. (And, if we made the playoffs these guys would have to have some great years, giving their value a nice little bump).
We won't tank. We'll compete. It may not be pretty, but it's about time this team felt the need to try. Babcock will bring that, and their long term sustainable plan will be followed.
This is a talent deprived team which should finish bottom 2 in league. However with Babs coaching I fear we will be around bottom 5 which hurts us as next year there are 2 prizes available which are franchise altering. Leafs need to get 3 bad years in and get a couple top end elite players. Nylander and Marner are not those guys.
I guess we can all go home now, it's been determined Nylander and Marner are not top end elite guys.
They very well maybe, we just need to add a few more to them.
They very well maybe, we just need to add a few more to them.
soulie
Registered User
- Jan 9, 2008
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I've been a Tank Nation member for the past 3 years, my stance does not change now with a new coach behind the bench. Until the kids (players under 24 year old) are promoted to the big club my opinion will not waiver.
The Leafs lineup is devoid of the talent necessary to win big; hard work alone does not equal winning. So whilst i expect more entertaining games due to them being closer in score (ie losing 2-1 as opposed to 7-1) this team is setup to lose.
The Leafs lineup is devoid of the talent necessary to win big; hard work alone does not equal winning. So whilst i expect more entertaining games due to them being closer in score (ie losing 2-1 as opposed to 7-1) this team is setup to lose.
tmlms13
Registered User
As long as they finish bottom 3 I'm all for it. Another year of 4-8 no thank you, would rather have a Wild Card playoff spot.
Getting Matthews, Chychun, or Puljujarvi is a lot better than whoever is in the next tier.
Getting Matthews, Chychun, or Puljujarvi is a lot better than whoever is in the next tier.
We need talent, we have a higher probability getting higher talent when picking higher, so for that purpose we should tank. At the same time we need winning culture to develope the talent. Best thing would be to play good 40 games and be in playoff hunt and then tank and let the kids lines 2nd lines be sheltered and play to win while the older (on the 1st line and 3/4 line) are overmatched. It would also help having a worse goalie than Bernier in my opinion. Just finish bottom 3rd and get puljujarvi. Next year the same thing but draft a Right handed Defenceman if there are any. That's the direction I think they should go with. Also trade JVR (if the right value comes) and later Kadri (know I will get lots of hate for that one).
So Yes tank, but at the same time develope
So Yes tank, but at the same time develope
Jimmy Firecracker
Fire Sheldon.
Even if we're bottom 3 there's no guarentee we'll pick there thanks to the Edmonton rule.
I'm still all for the tank regardless. The lower you finish the better your odds at a top 3 pick. Walking away with Chychrun is my best case scenario for the draft. Need that high end defense prospect.
I won't complain if the Leafs pick a forward though. And there's still a lot of time between then and now to see who'll be the best prospect available next year.
someone needs to write a sports dictionary so everyone has the same definition for these made-up phrases
tanking to me means absolutely prioritizing your own draft picks, which usually means trading most or all of your best players. The Leafs have not done that. In fact they've signed a few players they obviously know could win them a few extra games
what they've been doing is still better described as "rebuilding"
in my opinion anyway. Hopefully our media understands that and doesn't create a side-show all year about the ethics of tanking when the team is simply rebuilding. I am confident they will though.
tanking to me means absolutely prioritizing your own draft picks, which usually means trading most or all of your best players. The Leafs have not done that. In fact they've signed a few players they obviously know could win them a few extra games
what they've been doing is still better described as "rebuilding"
in my opinion anyway. Hopefully our media understands that and doesn't create a side-show all year about the ethics of tanking when the team is simply rebuilding. I am confident they will though.
True but...
This is one hella bad team, I believe is targeting Stamkos. They may finish 10 to 12 last but there won't be any miracles on ice next year. We still have to play some guys till TD who I think will drag us down , not up.
This is one hella bad team, I believe is targeting Stamkos. They may finish 10 to 12 last but there won't be any miracles on ice next year. We still have to play some guys till TD who I think will drag us down , not up.
This is how I see this conversation going....
Shanny: "Mike when you signed on we told you we wanted to rebuild this team so we are trading away everything worth value and building with our young players."
Mike: "Fine but don't you once think I am going to throw hockey games so we can get a better damn pick!"
Shanny: "That's fine but don't expect Hunter of Dubas to trade for any help. You play with what you got."
Mike: "Whatever I coached a team of youngsters in Detroit to the playoffs I can damn well do it here to."
I really don't expect a tank in the sense they are throwing games per say they just were trying to maximize on their current assets to get something in return which ultimately makes the team worse in the short term but gives a chance of improvement in the long term. Also Babcock will coach every game to win or at least be the hardest working team on the ice.
Shanny: "Mike when you signed on we told you we wanted to rebuild this team so we are trading away everything worth value and building with our young players."
Mike: "Fine but don't you once think I am going to throw hockey games so we can get a better damn pick!"
Shanny: "That's fine but don't expect Hunter of Dubas to trade for any help. You play with what you got."
Mike: "Whatever I coached a team of youngsters in Detroit to the playoffs I can damn well do it here to."
I really don't expect a tank in the sense they are throwing games per say they just were trying to maximize on their current assets to get something in return which ultimately makes the team worse in the short term but gives a chance of improvement in the long term. Also Babcock will coach every game to win or at least be the hardest working team on the ice.
Jimmy Firecracker
Fire Sheldon.
"Tanking by Design" would be the way I'd describe it. The Leafs won't try to lose, but they've built the team in such a way that it'll be difficult to finish anywhere but the bottom 10.
I think Mystifo's post is pretty accurate. I also feel it's better this way. We're going to suck, but damned if we don't make the other team earn their wins against us.
I think Mystifo's post is pretty accurate. I also feel it's better this way. We're going to suck, but damned if we don't make the other team earn their wins against us.
TLeafsFan
A True BeLeafer
"Trying to lose" isn't a thing for anyone below the GM.
I don't know why this is even a discussion.
"Tanking" is just in the reasoning of your moves. Trading Kessel for futures and not replacing him is as tanky as anything that would actually happen. Nobody is going to tell a goaltender not to make a save(or something).
I don't know why this is even a discussion.
"Tanking" is just in the reasoning of your moves. Trading Kessel for futures and not replacing him is as tanky as anything that would actually happen. Nobody is going to tell a goaltender not to make a save(or something).
