Tippett's Performance as Head Coach

[Karson37]

I'd say it's a bit early to be calling for heads at this point. It's not like our team was expected to make the playoffs this year. We simply don't have the talent yet.

Tippett is the best coach the Coyotes have ever had, in my opinion. However, recently he has been given EVERY tool to make the team he wants, and even has his hands deep into GM role at this point. It's obvious this is Tippett's team, and he is in the driver seat. If this doesn't work out within a few years, it IS Tippett's fault and he'll be to blame from a management perspective. Tippett knew he had to go all-in with the Coyotes if he wanted to keep his job, and he did just that. Luckily for him he was able to convince executives to give him the reigns for one last try.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

I'd say it's a bit early to be calling for heads at this point.

I don't know about anyone else but I started talking about systemic weaknesses three years ago and I keep raising the same points over and over again, so it's not like a 1-5 start has spurred me to new Chicken Little-ing.

Tippett is the best coach the Coyotes have ever had, in my opinion.

That's hard to dispute, but that's also not an extremely high bar. He's also the longest-tenured coach the Coyotes have ever had.

If this doesn't work out within a few years, it IS Tippett's fault and he'll be to blame from a management perspective.

Tippett was lucky that IceArizona took over when they did, because that gave him a few more years' worth of largesse. Had the ownership been consistent from the time he was hired until now, he'd have been fired already, IMO. Better coaches than him on better teams have gotten canned in the interim.

 

[knich]

I don't know about anyone else but I started talking about systemic weaknesses three years ago and I keep raising the same points over and over again, so it's not like a 1-5 start has spurred me to new Chicken Little-ing.

That's hard to dispute, but that's also not an extremely high bar. He's also the longest-tenured coach the Coyotes have ever had.



Tippett was lucky that IceArizona took over when they did, because that gave him a few more years' worth of largesse. Had the ownership been consistent from the time he was hired until now, he'd have been fired already, IMO. Better coaches than him on better teams have gotten canned in the interim.[/QUOTE]

I agree 100%. He is by far our best coach ever. And we might not be here but for Tip. That said, I really do think his coaching hasn't evolved with the personnel we have. I am reminded we lost Turris because of our system. I think our system is holding back this team. Gogo didn't overnight become the worst hockey player in the world. Something is not right with the system. And for this, Tip has responsibility.

 

[RemoAZ]

I think many of us have hated his system for a long time. When I had season tickets at the FO circle on the end we shoot twice, watching most of the game in the other end was extremely frustrating. Now that we have more skill, he needs to develop them into a team that controls the puck and applies offensive pressure a lot more. How much would that help the defense and goalies? Right now it's mostly dump and chase with the occasional one shot rush and done.

That being said, more skill on the ice is still more entertaining than the slugs of the past. If he chases any of the talented youth away with his boring system and/or Turrising them, ownership better pull up their pants and step in.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

I think many of us have hated his system for a long time. When I had season tickets at the FO circle on the end we shoot twice, watching most of the game in the other end was extremely frustrating. Now that we have more skill, he needs to develop them into a team that controls the puck and applies offensive pressure a lot more. How much would that help the defense and goalies? Right now it's mostly dump and chase with the occasional one shot rush and done.

That being said, more skill on the ice is still more entertaining than the slugs of the past. If he chases any of the talented youth away with his boring system and/or Turrising them, ownership better pull up their pants and step in.

The military has a phrase that I think applies very well to this situation: "asymmetric warfare." It describes a situation where two sides of a battle are contested by sides not considered equal in strength, strategy, or tactics.

A corollary to the asymmetric warfare discussion is the principle that a smaller, weaker opponent can achieve victory over a more powerful one by refusing to engage in "predictable" tactics. This has played out over time in military history. For instance, the Japanese Navy, in preparing for what turned into the Battle of Midway in 1942, ran a series of war games in which the officers in charge of playing the role of the American fleet destroyed the Japanese battle group. The admirals in charge of the games refused to accept the results and changed the outcome arbitrarily because they could not accept that the American fleet could possibly respond in that manner. As it happened, the American strategy and tactics conformed very closely to what had happened in the war games and the Combined Fleet lost four aircraft carriers and the battle itself.

This is relevant to hockey because it seems to me that Tippett's system assumes that an opposing team will react a certain way to the manner in how he positions his players and moves the puck on the ice. His system works great - as long as the opposing team responds in a predictable fashion. What I've seen is that our opponents respond unpredictably - asymmetrically, you might say - and therefore our system breaks down.

At the speed of today's game and with the scouting and review resources all teams have, any sort of rigid system is going to collapse unless the home team executes it 100% and the visitor responds exactly as expected. I don't know if Tippett is flexible enough to admit this and open up the Coyotes' game to give our talented kids more room and time to create.

 

[BUX7PHX]

At times, I think people get too hung up on "the system isn't working." Are there improvements that can be made? Sure. But every team in the NHL has a system and we don't necessarily see teams changing their system or trying to implement many different systems throughout the year. It does come down to execution, and we don't do as well on the defensive end. Hard to play catch-up in a high-quality league.

I think our scoring chances have gone up this year, relative to previous years. We look like we are getting better quality shots on goal, even if the shot numbers and offensive possession are the same as last year.

I envision the following:
1. Player's only meeting when they get back from the road trip
2. We may get a small spark out of a meeting, but if things are still pitiful defensively heading into December, then I think a change with Playfair must be done.
3. Give it one more year (roughly) from when Playfair gets canned to determine what happens with Tippett. I think he is a fine coach who has a sub-par defensive coach on the roster. We masked a lot of the mistakes in the 11-12 season with the WCF run, and I think people were quick to write off the next year as a bit of an anomaly with only 48 games played.

 

[Matias Maccete]

I'd really like to see what the team looks like without playfair. I'd prefer him and tippett go personally, but I remember a reporter asking tippett about an oel line change decision and tippett replied that it was playfair's call. This makes me wonder if playfair has a lot of control, and maybe even dictates our defensive zone coverage for all players. I have seen some changes and progress in the neutral and offensive zone, but our D zone coverage is actually getting worse, and imo it's not personnel, it's our system. We routinely pull a dman up to cover the high slot this year, and every player on the ice seems confused by who to cover. I don't think getting rid of playfair alone would fix all of our problems, but I'd be curious to see what would change and what wouldn't.

 

[Vinny Boombatz]

Tippett was assisting coaching for Team North America and they were fun to watch and won games.

The talent level of this team is so much higher than we've had in the past 4 years, but yet we continue to see the same offensive struggles we've seen the last 4 years.

it's the system, executing a bad system is still bad. There is 'zero' creativity in our system...it's Tippett's way be damned.

Domi & Duclair & Strome & Dvorak it's got to be painful. For meat & potatoes players like Martinook it is dream come true.

There is a difference, however our coach is stuck in the mud.

 

[BUX7PHX]

I'd really like to see what the team looks like without playfair. I'd prefer him and tippett go personally, but I remember a reporter asking tippett about an oel line change decision and tippett replied that it was playfair's call. This makes me wonder if playfair has a lot of control, and maybe even dictates our defensive zone coverage for all players. I have seen some changes and progress in the neutral and offensive zone, but our D zone coverage is actually getting worse, and imo it's not personnel, it's our system. We routinely pull a dman up to cover the high slot this year, and every player on the ice seems confused by who to cover. I don't think getting rid of playfair alone would fix all of our problems, but I'd be curious to see what would change and what wouldn't.

Yeah, I think it is fairly standard to have the head coach with a finger on the pulse of the team with some additional in-game management and decisions being made as to the overall lineup quality. I don't think that every head coach is the one drawing up every single option during the game.

But it just becomes clearer and clearer that as we digress on defense year over year, there should be some smoking gun behind that trend. It made sense in certain years when we were riddled with injury and veteran players who were slowing down. Incorporating a less talented lineup on defense will have some pains. But this is the first year that we appear to have a truly competent lineup from #1 through #7/8 D since the playoff runs (on paper, at least). To continue to be this poor suggests that Playfair is part of the problem. Wish he would show as much anger in our defense as he did here:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=video&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjy-MK3xPvPAhXMJCYKHXiiCOEQuAIIIzAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3D21nBVuCMPuQ&usg=AFQjCNFWmDSTqgv433GtPq92mJfd15ZWoA&sig2=5PobqGnokbAY3xgi7VAUkg&bvm=bv.136811127,d.eWE

 

[The Feckless Puck]

Tippett was assisting coaching for Team North America and they were fun to watch and won games.

You know why? Because Tip didn't have enough time to shoehorn them into a system. Really, none of the World Cup teams did. So they had to rely more on their inherent skill and creativity - and that's what Team North America had in spades.

 

[BUX7PHX]

Tippett was assisting coaching for Team North America and they were fun to watch and won games.

The talent level of this team is so much higher than we've had in the past 4 years, but yet we continue to see the same offensive struggles we've seen the last 4 years.

it's the system, executing a bad system is still bad. There is 'zero' creativity in our system...it's Tippett's way be damned.

Domi & Duclair & Strome & Dvorak it's got to be painful. For meat & potatoes players like Martinook it is dream come true.

There is a difference, however our coach is stuck in the mud.

We have scored one goal fewer in our first 6 games of 2016 than we did in our first 6 games of 2015. I am not worried about the offense. We have repeatedly at least come back to tie games that we were down by two goals, or at least brought a wave of momentum back to at least push the other team. A GFA of above 2.5 or 2.6 is commendable. Anything above 2.8-2.9 is awesome.

It all goes by the way of an underperforming defensive effort, which involves not just the D-men, but the forward play as well. Too much indecisiveness, too much watching the puck or man only, too much inactivity in our own defensive zone. We give up 4.33 GAA. You can't win and certainly can't expect your offense to make up for that when you are giving up that many goals.

 

[kihekah19*]

HOLY CRAP BOYS - There's nothing wrong with the system!

Most here wouldn't be able to recognize a system if challenged to anyhow. The problem (despite the common perception that DT must be a liar, or something) is one of execution. Execution is not exclusive to passing tape to tape, it includes positioning and my personal favorite PUCK SUPPORT, which basically is positioning. There needs to be a minimum of one support outlet for every possible breakdown. Be it a lack of an open passing lane, an errant pass, or a player out of position etc. This is applicable in all three zones. What we see are breakdowns in support and it's NOT the system, it really is EXECUTION. I don't think this is happening due to a lack of talent, but rather players adjusting to systems and each other, while having the ever present pesky opposition attempting to thwart their every move.

Something that has changed since the two line pass has been allowed is more aggressive play in the defensive zone, to take advantage of the rule. This takes away much of the ability to support, or hasten's the decision making process substantially, thus (in part) further allowing the rule to offer increased opportunity at both ends of the ice. None of this is rocket science, or even all that new.... it just needs to be executed.

Do you honestly think that DT and Playfair are so inept as to have a system that can't compete? The notion is absurd at best.

 

[BUX7PHX]

HOLY CRAP BOYS - There's nothing wrong with the system!

Most here wouldn't be able to recognize a system if challenged to anyhow. The problem (despite the common perception that DT must be a liar, or something) is one of execution. Execution is not exclusive to passing tape to tape, it includes positioning and my personal favorite PUCK SUPPORT, which basically is positioning. There needs to be a minimum of one support outlet for every possible breakdown. Be it a lack of an open passing lane, an errant pass, or a player out of position etc. This is applicable in all three zones. What we see are breakdowns in support and it's NOT the system, it really is EXECUTION. I don't think this is happening due to a lack of talent, but rather players adjusting to systems and each other, while having the ever present pesky opposition attempting to thwart their every move.

Something that has changed since the two line pass has been allowed is more aggressive play in the defensive zone, to take advantage of the rule. This takes away much of the ability to support, or hasten's the decision making process substantially, thus (in part) further allowing the rule to offer increased opportunity at both ends of the ice. None of this is rocket science, or even all that new.... it just needs to be executed.

Do you honestly think that DT and Playfair are so inept as to have a system that can't compete? The notion is absurd at best.

You said it much better than I did a few posts ago. Systems are what they are, and if Tippett hasn't changed his system since coming here, then it should be clear that execution is the issue. After all, that same system produced three straight years of being in the playoffs. The players have changed, and thus, the execution has as well.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

Do you honestly think that DT and Playfair are so inept as to have a system that can't compete?

A system that demands 100% execution in order to have a prayer of being competitive is not a good system.

And yes, I do believe there are coaches out there who have systems that can't compete. It's why they get fired. Usually.

The jury's out on the offensive system - you can say that we just need some puck luck or whatever - but the defensive system is a disaster.

A systemic failure - rather than execution - is the only plausible explanation for why the roster can change almost completely over the course of several years, and yet the same mistakes are being made, the same weaknesses are exploited, etc.

 

[rt]

Dave Tippett is obviously an elite level coach with a spotless track record of success and I really don't see how anyone can question that.

 

[Jakey53]

HOLY CRAP BOYS - There's nothing wrong with the system!

Most here wouldn't be able to recognize a system if challenged to anyhow. The problem (despite the common perception that DT must be a liar, or something) is one of execution. Execution is not exclusive to passing tape to tape, it includes positioning and my personal favorite PUCK SUPPORT, which basically is positioning. There needs to be a minimum of one support outlet for every possible breakdown. Be it a lack of an open passing lane, an errant pass, or a player out of position etc. This is applicable in all three zones. What we see are breakdowns in support and it's NOT the system, it really is EXECUTION. I don't think this is happening due to a lack of talent, but rather players adjusting to systems and each other, while having the ever present pesky opposition attempting to thwart their every move.

Something that has changed since the two line pass has been allowed is more aggressive play in the defensive zone, to take advantage of the rule. This takes away much of the ability to support, or hasten's the decision making process substantially, thus (in part) further allowing the rule to offer increased opportunity at both ends of the ice. None of this is rocket science, or even all that new.... it just needs to be executed.

Do you honestly think that DT and Playfair are so inept as to have a system that can't compete? The notion is absurd at best.

Bingo. I like how everyone hates DT talking about "execution", yet you go to other teams website and that is all their coach talks about. Every opponent knows our system and we know theirs, it's who ever executes better that wins.

 

[kihekah19*]

Dave Tippett is obviously an elite level coach with a spotless track record of success and I really don't see how anyone can question that.

Someone, somewhere on this forum should be able to offer something specific then. All I keep reading are generalizations that have offered absolutely nothing that resembles anything more than minimal knowledge of some hockey terms, that are loosely thrown around.

Now if someone doesn't like the line juggling, or thinks (on a hunch) that the message is being lost, I can accept that for what it is. Hell if they want a change for the sake of change, or think a new voice would work, it's understandable. But if a poster wants to take it to the ice - give us some specifics.

 

[_Del_]

We managed a (barely) over .500 season with defensive stalwart "executing players" like Cal O'Reilly and Patrick O'Sullivan. Since they left (along with Ulf a year before), we're a substantially under .500 club. The problem is clearly the talent on the roster. It has nothing to do with systems or a coach's shelf life.
If you are Dave Tippett, you can literally point anywhere and find someone else with more responsibility for the fragile mental state of this team and lack of execution. It's not like he deemed Turris unable to execute, and he immediately flourished elsewhere after we ruined our working relationship with him by playing him in the bottom six with scrubs when he was allowed to play. It's not like he handpicked this roster or anything.
The people who are really responsible are the fans who didn't re-up their season tickets to pay to watch this gongshow and who don't know the game. They wouldn't know what good hockey is if they saw it. No wonder we're not successful or spending the promised extra 10M on player salaries, you malcontents.

 

[Jakey53]

Dave Tippett is obviously an elite level coach with a spotless track record of success and I really don't see how anyone can question that.

Who said that?

 

[kihekah19*]

Bingo. I like how everyone hates DT talking about "execution", yet you go to other teams website and that is all their coach talks about. Every opponent knows our system and we know theirs, it's who ever executes better that wins.

Don't forget line match ups, pairings etc., but yes.... players must execute.

 

[kihekah19*]

Who said that?

They don't know how to find this:

 

[Jakey53]

Don't forget line match ups, pairings etc., but yes.... players must execute.

Correct. I think DT does a good job of line match ups etc. Like every other coach, DT's match ups don't always work, and then all you hear is that he was out coached.

 

[kihekah19*]

It's not like he deemed Turris unable to execute, and he immediately flourished elsewhere after we ruined our working relationship with him by playing him in the bottom six with scrubs when he was allowed to play.

This is the only point even worth a shred of consideration. I would argue that we did not have the player personnel that would allow Turris to play his way and be successful as a team. We can disagree on that, I won't even claim to be absolutely 100% correct (as I normally am), but that ship has sailed and there isn't evidence (yet) that DT or the front office are making similar decisions.

 

[kihekah19*]

Come on _Del_, I'm waiting for some clever response concerning where/when Duke is being played.....

 

[Ebb]

Come on _Del_, I'm waiting for some clever response concerning where/when Duke is being played.....

I'm not _Del_ but I am surprised that Tipp hasn't scratched Duclair, yet. Of course, the alternative is to play a rookie (I think), so it's understandable...