Post-Game Talk: Tippett sucks

[Soundwave]

So you think Tipp over plays them or do the 2 feel entitled and stay on for full 2 mins?

We do have a 2nd unit but Tipp can piss off his stars and give the 2nd unit a full min of PP.

McD is great for gaining the zone and Drai for his one timer. There really isnt much they do on PP that 2nd unit cant do.

You mean aside from actually scoring a goal? edit: I think you mean cycle in other players around those two but that can throw things off too.

 

[LTIR]

You mean aside from actually scoring a goal?

Im sure if the 2nd unit started all PPs instead of first the production would have been higher

 

[Oilhawks]

The issue with Turris is he isn't a shutdown center, but is being used like one.

His line should be getting softer matchups. That or throw him on the wing in the top 6. Could see him being an upgrade on Kassian for Connor. Not like Kassian is really doing the board work etc anyhow

 

[belair]

Most teams actually have a 2nd unit that gets some time. We don't. We have the top unit and the second unit is still McDrai. And then he overplays them 5v5 too.

Again I don't think Tippett is a bad coach. He is just is not the right coach for this roster.

This isn't something that Dave Tippet is incapable of doing. Split Draisaitl and McDavid up for a handful of games. Run Draisaitl - Nuge - Yamamoto on one unit, McDavid - Barrie - Neal on another. Split the ice time more evenly. Load the top unit only when necessary. When guys like Turris, Kahun, Puljujarvi, Nurse and Bear get to see some meaningful ice time while a man up on a unit that actually has some chemistry, maybe you get to see them with a little more swagger at five on five.

A Toronto unit goes two for two against us on Friday. One of the goals goes in off of Adam Brooks, a guy with a handful of NHL games under his belt. The shot taken by Jason Spezza, a guy waived a week prior. The one unit thing isn't working, guys.

 

[MaxR11]

Take this roster and put it with Gretzky back in the day and Gretzky makes some of them Hall of famers.

It's apples and oranges.

Ya, that's part of Gretz's legacy. I remember hearing a long time ago about guys in that organization talking about how Gretz made them all better. I think even Mess said that. I don't think those guys would be as good as they turned out without Gretz. Coffey specifically said something about how he was way less inclined to be offensive and join the rush at the beginning until Gretz kept telling him to do so.

They spoke of how Gretz was so good in practice/demanded a high standard and it made everyone else practice so much harder, smarter and sharper with high pace and in turn a lot better players. I think one of Gretz's greatest legacies is how he help make a bunch of these guys a lot better players and thus created a dynasty here.

 

[Soundwave]

Ya, that's part of Gretz's legacy. I remember hearing a long time ago about guys in that organization talking about how Gretz made them all better. I think even Mess said that. I don't think those guys would be as good as they turned out without Gretz. Coffey specifically said something about how he was way less inclined to be offensive and join the rush at the beginning until Gretz kept telling him to do so.

They spoke of how Gretz was so good in practice/demanded a high standard and it made everyone else practice so much harder, smarter and sharper with high pace and in turn a lot better players. I think one of Gretz's greatest legacies is how he help make a bunch of these guys a lot better players and thus created a dynasty here.

Wayne Gretzky 0 Cups in 11 seasons outside of Edmonton.

You're kidding yourself if you don't think you could replace Gretzky with McDavid on those 80s Oilers or even Draisaitl and still win 4 Cups.

It actually should be humbling how much help even the best players need to win a Cup.

Gretzky - nothing without an All-Star team, 1 Cup Finals with a pretty loaded LA Kings team that got manhandled by the Habs.

Lemieux - struggled to even make the playoffs without an All-Star team around him (no salary cap so easier to just collect high end players in those days).

Crosby + Malkin - Two of the best players plus good supporting cast by 09, managed to beat an aging Red Wings squad. Then nothing for many years, only able to win again when a third superstar player (Kessel) was gift wrapped to them.

No one wins anything in this league with only 3 players doing anything of impact.

 

[King1s]

Do you guys still watch the games? This team is trash and not worth your time. Waiting for the next rebuild though.

 

[Brown Cat]

Do you guys still watch the games? This team is trash and not worth your time. Waiting for the next rebuild though.

I do...

Spoiler

I don't pay for it though

 

[Missing smitty]

Wayne Gretzky 0 Cups in 11 seasons outside of Edmonton.

You're kidding yourself if you don't think you could replace Gretzky with McDavid on those 80s Oilers or even Draisaitl and still win 4 Cups.

It actually should be humbling how much help even the best players need to win a Cup.

Gretzky - nothing without an All-Star team, 1 Cup Finals with a pretty loaded LA Kings team that got manhandled by the Habs.

Lemieux - struggled to even make the playoffs without an All-Star team around him (no salary cap so easier to just collect high end players in those days).

Crosby + Malkin - Two of the best players plus good supporting cast by 09, managed to beat an aging Red Wings squad. Then nothing for many years, only able to win again when a third superstar player (Kessel) was gift wrapped to them.

No one wins anything in this league with only 3 players doing anything of impact.

You're wrong. McDavid should be able to pull a LeBron and will the team to a cup. Anything else is just poor leadership.

 

[Missing smitty]

Do you guys still watch the games? This team is trash and not worth your time. Waiting for the next rebuild though.

You're soooooooo edgy.

 

[Soundwave]

You're wrong. McDavid should be able to pull a LeBron and will the team to a cup. Anything else is just poor leadership.

Even LeBron has never won a title "by himself". He had to run away from Cleveland to start forming super-teams that stacked the deck in his favor and then simply got one upped in that regard by Kevin Durant for a few years before forcing the Lakers to go get Anthony Davis and sneaking in a win where Durant was hurt.

 

[Missing smitty]

Even LeBron has never won a title "by himself". He had to run away from Cleveland to start forming super-teams that stacked the deck in his favor and then simply got one upped in that regard by Kevin Durant for a few years before forcing the Lakers to go get Anthony Davis and sneaking in a win where Durant was hurt.

It's almost like these are team sports.....

 

[MaxR11]

Wayne Gretzky 0 Cups in 11 seasons outside of Edmonton.

You're kidding yourself if you don't think you could replace Gretzky with McDavid on those 80s Oilers or even Draisaitl and still win 4 Cups.

It actually should be humbling how much help even the best players need to win a Cup.

Gretzky - nothing without an All-Star team, 1 Cup Finals with a pretty loaded LA Kings team that got manhandled by the Habs.

Lemieux - struggled to even make the playoffs without an All-Star team around him (no salary cap so easier to just collect high end players in those days).

Crosby + Malkin - Two of the best players plus good supporting cast by 09, managed to beat an aging Red Wings squad. Then nothing for many years, only able to win again when a third superstar player (Kessel) was gift wrapped to them.

No one wins anything in this league with only 3 players doing anything of impact.

I'm not sure where I said Gretz could have won it all himself. I think you did not understand the post. I said his greatness/leadership, his standards in game and in practice etc raised the other guys up and made them much better players.

 

[Soundwave]

I'm not sure where I said Gretz could have won it all himself. I think you did not understand the post. I said his greatness/leadership, his standards in game and in practice etc raised the other guys up and made them much better players.

Apparently not high enough to ever win a Cup for LA, St. Louis, or New York though.

The 80s Oilers would've won multiple Cups even without Gretzky.

 

[MaxR11]

Apparently not high enough to ever win a Cup for LA, St. Louis, or New York though.

The 80s Oilers would've won multiple Cups even without Gretzky.

Disagree. If Gretz never went to the Oil, I think they would have had zero cups. That's how much influence I think he had in raising up the other players. That's what I'm saying. I don't think any of those guys would develop to be the players they became without Gretz being there. Again, this comes from interviews many years ago when those guys specifically said as much... that they would not be as good as they were as players without gretz's standards/skills/work effort in practice etc, and just learning and playing with him to raise up their own skills/effort etc.

 

[Soundwave]

Disagree. If Gretz never went to the Oil, I think they would have had zero cups. That's how much influence I think he had in raising up the other players. That's what I'm saying. I don't think any of those guys would develop to be the players they became without Gretz being there. Again, this comes from interviews many years ago when those guys specifically said as much... that they would not be as good as they were as players without gretz's standards/skills/work effort in practice etc, and just learning and playing with him to raise up their own skills/effort etc.

I don't buy it because why didn't he bring that same impact to LA and St. Louis in that case?

Drew Doughty brought a Cup to LA at last not Gretzky, thats pretty surreal to think about.

The 80s Oilers were an All Star team and players like Coffey, Fuhr, Anderson, etc deserve credit for their own excellence.

 

[MaxR11]

I don't buy it because why didn't he bring that same impact to LA and St. Louis in that case?

Drew Doughty brought a Cup to LA at last not Gretzky, thats pretty surreal to think about.

The 80s Oilers were an All Star team and players like Coffey, Fuhr, Anderson, etc deserve credit for their own excellence.

LA became a much better team when he came and the Kings still had to get past a pretty good Oil team which he helped to make great. In the 90s he became old, the game was changing and was different than the 80s. He was peak greatness in the 80s. Those other guys definitely deserve a lot of credit for their own excellence but imo i think without gretz there, they all might have had very different and lesser career paths. Maybe still very good but not the same level of greatness as individual players.

 

[Tobias Kahun]

I don't buy it because why didn't he bring that same impact to LA and St. Louis in that case?

Drew Doughty brought a Cup to LA at last not Gretzky, thats pretty surreal to think about.

The 80s Oilers were an All Star team and players like Coffey, Fuhr, Anderson, etc deserve credit for their own excellence.

Doughty > Gretzky confirmed. Heard it here first.

It's almost like Gretzky was starting to leave his prime when he was traded.

 

[Soundwave]

LA became a much better team when he came and the Kings still had to get past a pretty good Oil team which he helped to make great. In the 90s he became old, the game was changing and was different than the 80s. He was peak greatness in the 80s. Those other guys definitely deserve a lot of credit for their own excellence but imo i think without gretz there, they all might have had very different and lesser career paths. Maybe still very good but not the same level of greatness as individual players.

Gretzky's actually lucky the Oilers completely fell apart due to Pocklington being broke.

We would have beaten the Kings again in 1993 and denied him a Cup appearance.

Even without Messier and Kurri, we were still thumping the Kings. We owned that ass.

 

[MaxR11]

I don't buy it because why didn't he bring that same impact to LA and St. Louis in that case?

Drew Doughty brought a Cup to LA at last not Gretzky, thats pretty surreal to think about.

The 80s Oilers were an All Star team and players like Coffey, Fuhr, Anderson, etc deserve credit for their own excellence.

Keep in mind Anderson, Mess, Kurri... a 3rd and couple of 4th round draft picks. Not like they were high end first rounders that were going to be sure fire superstars.

 

[Soundwave]

Players like RNH (no.1 overall pick), Larsson (no.4 overall pick), Kassian (1st round pick), Chiasson (played on a Cup winning team) shouldn't need an "example" on how to play like a professional and show up to a season ready to contribute.

That's not on McDavid and Draisaitl and Yamamoto that these other guys are soft and/or lazy.

If these players need a Wayne Gretzky or Connor McDavid to hold their hand and get them to compete -- f*** those players. Be a professional. Nothing is stopping Kassian from giving even 50% of the effort Patrick Maroon did here, what is Maroon some superstar?

Nothing is stopping RNH from being a top leader who sets the tone on this team, except himself.

No reason Chiasson can't be a servicable energy player on the 3rd/4th line ... except he comes into this season with this dog shit effort. Who's fault is that?

 

[Spawn]

This isn't something that Dave Tippet is incapable of doing. Split Draisaitl and McDavid up for a handful of games. Run Draisaitl - Nuge - Yamamoto on one unit, McDavid - Barrie - Neal on another. Split the ice time more evenly. Load the top unit only when necessary. When guys like Turris, Kahun, Puljujarvi, Nurse and Bear get to see some meaningful ice time while a man up on a unit that actually has some chemistry, maybe you get to see them with a little more swagger at five on five.

A Toronto unit goes two for two against us on Friday. One of the goals goes in off of Adam Brooks, a guy with a handful of NHL games under his belt. The shot taken by Jason Spezza, a guy waived a week prior. The one unit thing isn't working, guys.

To be fair it isn't working right now but tt worked last season to the tune of the best powerplay the league has seen in more than 40 years. Of all the things to not change yet, I think the PP is the one that I would give Tippett the longest leash with. It was historically good last season. Meanwhile we sucked at 5v5 last season too. No excuse not to change lines that never worked in the first place.

 

[belair]

To be fair it isn't working right now but tt worked last season to the tune of the best powerplay the league has seen in more than 40 years. Of all the things to not change yet, I think the PP is the one that I would give Tippett the longest leash with. It was historically good last season. Meanwhile we sucked at 5v5 last season too. No excuse not to change lines that never worked in the first place.

The only way the single unit makes any sense is if it operates at a truly elite level. The difference between that unit and the median is anywhere between 12 and 15 goals on the powerplay over a full season. When you take into account the amount of strain you're putting on your top players and add it to the lack of opportunity some of your secondary forwards have to create offense, there's a valid question as to whether it's beneficial running this method.

It sure as hell doesn't make sense when the unit doesn't work at all.

 

[MaxR11]

The only way the single unit makes any sense is if it operates at a truly elite level. The difference between that unit and the median is anywhere between 12 and 15 goals on the powerplay over a full season. When you take into account the amount of strain you're putting on your top players and add it to the lack of opportunity some of your secondary forwards have to create offense, there's a valid question as to whether it's beneficial running this method.

It sure as hell doesn't make sense when the unit doesn't work at all.

Yup, giving a 2nd unit consistently 40-50 sec of pp time might actually benefit the entire team in the long run. Gives more forwards a chance to create offence and get some offensive confidence that may spill over to 5v5 play. I think it could really be beneficial for a guy like Yamo to learn to control the play himself more and not defer to drai all the time... it could really take him to another level. It might really ignite some offence from guys like Turris and Kahun etc. as well. People underestimate how much getting pp time does spark offence and get players a good feel of the puck and controlling the play with skill.

 

[belair]

Yup, giving a 2nd unit consistently 40-50 sec of pp time might actually benefit the entire team in the long run. Gives more forwards a chance to create offence and get some offensive confidence that may spill over to 5v5 play. I think it could really be beneficial for a guy like Yamo to learn to control the play himself more and not defer to drai all the time... it could really take him to another level. It might really ignite some offence from guys like Turris and Kahun etc. as well. People underestimate how much getting pp time does spark offence and get players a good feel of the puck and controlling the play with skill.

I'm not even talking about increasing the second unit's time. Blow. It. Up. Split up McDavid and Draisaitl unless the team absolutely needs a goal. Spread. The. Wealth.