Time to abandon ties between KHL and IIHF?

[Peter25]

After watching another episode of a long series of "IIHF refs ruining a Russian tournament" today I finally made up my mind that the KHL should cut ties to IIHF.

What is KHL and Russian hockey getting from IIHF? Only regulations and restrictions and no benefits. And terrible refereeing, that for some reason always ends up benefiting Russia's opponent.

KHL should not be under any rules or regulations that are set by the IIHF.

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[Coramoor]

how would the KHL separating help you in international competition? The IIHF would still run the WJC, WC and Olympics

 

[Jonimaus]

how would the KHL separating help you in international competition? The IIHF would still run the WJC, WC and Olympics

Seems more like the post should be about Russia refusing to participate in Olympics, WJC and WC?

 

[Fugu]

After watching another episode of a long series of "IIHF refs ruining a Russian tournament" today I finally made up my mind that the KHL should cut ties to IIHF.

What is KHL and Russian hockey getting from IIHF? Only regulations and restrictions and no benefits. And terrible refereeing, that for some reason always ends up benefiting Russia's opponent.

KHL should not be under any rules or regulations that are set by the IIHF.

Peter-- the WJC is a prospects tournament, while the KHL is a professional man's league. In fact, I believe that the KHL is free to accept or reject whatever the IIHF wishes to impose. The agreements between them are negotiated ones, as is the case with the NHL.

 

[Killion]

Indeed. A perfectly valid premise for a thread. The logistics & legalities of the issues pursuant to everything from player transfers to participation in tournaments would be thrown Helter Skelter however on several levels for the KHL itself, its a battle they may wish to wage. Their objective is to become the preeminent professional league throughout the continent & Northern Europe. If they deem that the IIHF is standing in their way you betcha they'd be willing to go full-on Outlaw & opt out. And I for one could understand & appreciate just why they might do that. Be some serious anarchy for awhile but dont underestimate the resolve of the KHL. They are gunning for #1 world wide status and are not timid individuals afraid of fights.

 

[Jussi]

Peter-- the WJC is a prospects tournament, while the KHL is a professional man's league. In fact, I believe that the KHL is free to accept or reject whatever the IIHF wishes to impose. The agreements between them are negotiated ones, as is the case with the NHL.

No, they operate under Russian hockey federation.

 

[Sokil]

No, they operate under Russian hockey federation.

you're thinking of the RSL

 

[Jussi]

you're thinking of the RSL

Nope, in another thread someone linked some rules or laws (I think it was about the foreigner limit), seems the federation could decide what they want and the KHL would have to follow it (obviously won't go that route).

 

[vorky]

Jussi, you are not right, again

 

[alce*]

Jussi, you are not right, again

There is law in Russia that only organizations that could hold professional sports events are corresponding all-Russian sport federations. For hockey it's RHF. According to that law federation could give such rights to other organization(in our case it's KHL) on period of 3 or less years.
It isn't like KHL must take all orders from RHF, of course, but it couldn't do some things without RHF permissions. Like changing foreign limit or ignoring NT events.

 

[zorz]

IMO, it would completely destroy the system hockey is working in the world and prevent its growth for many years.

 

[vorky]

There is law in Russia that only organizations that could hold professional sports events are corresponding all-Russian sport federations. For hockey it's RHF. According to that law federation could give such rights to other organization(in our case it's KHL) on period of 3 or less years.
It isn't like KHL must take all orders from RHF, of course, but it couldn't do some things without RHF permissions. Like changing foreign limit or ignoring NT events.

and now look at reality

 

[alce*]

and now look at reality

Sorry, what do you mean? Where current reality contradict that law?

KHL still needs permission of FHR to change limit of foreign players and would still break regular season for NT matches.

 

[thevreelander]

Sorry, what do you mean? Where current reality contradict that law?

KHL still needs permission of FHR to change limit of foreign players and would still break regular season for NT matches.

I find this hard to believe because wouldn't the KHL have a harder time changing the foreign players limit then? It seems like their foreign players limit is decided by the internal of the KHL. Of course it's influenced by the IHFR, but it just seems the KHL gets the deciding decision.

 

[Jussi]

There is law in Russia that only organizations that could hold professional sports events are corresponding all-Russian sport federations. For hockey it's RHF. According to that law federation could give such rights to other organization(in our case it's KHL) on period of 3 or less years.
It isn't like KHL must take all orders from RHF, of course, but it couldn't do some things without RHF permissions. Like changing foreign limit or ignoring NT events.

Exactly as I remembered it.

I was right again.

 

[vorky]

Sorry, what do you mean? Where current reality contradict that law?

KHL still needs permission of FHR to change limit of foreign players and would still break regular season for NT matches.

Do you know how negotiations work? If you understood it, you would not write this ....

There is something like "negotiations power". FHR has no neg.power. So it is not important what law or FHR say/want, only KHL´s point of view is important. So if KHL wants no player restrictions, there will be no restrictions.

I give you an example. NHL wanted from Europe to ssignt PTA which say that euros going to NHL for pennies. Europe had no neg.power, so.. you know how it ended. The same here.

Another scenario is what Peter25 wrote.

 

[alce*]

I find this hard to believe because wouldn't the KHL have a harder time changing the foreign players limit then? It seems like their foreign players limit is decided by the internal of the KHL. Of course it's influenced by the IHFR, but it just seems the KHL gets the deciding decision.

KHL can't change foreign limit by yourself at all. There is some agreement between KHL and FHR to return to that question after Olimpics and last words will be by FHR. Because there is special punkt in that law about foreign players (more exactly they named as "players who have no rights to play for national teams of Russia") and this punkt is clearly state that FHR could set restrictions on that players.

Here is quote about it from that law:

Общероссийские спортивные федерации вправе:
......
устанавливать ограничения на участие во всероссийских официальных спортивных соревнованиях по соответствующим видам спорта спортсменов, не имеющих права выступать за спортивные сборные команды Российской Федерации в соответствии с нормами международных спортивных организаций, проводящих соответствующие международные соревнования;

 

[alce*]

Do you know how negotiations work? If you understood it, you would not write this ....

There is something like "negotiations power". FHR has no neg.power. So it is not important what law or FHR say/want, only KHL´s point of view is important. So if KHL wants no player restrictions, there will be no restrictions.

I give you an example. NHL wanted from Europe to ssignt PTA which say that euros going to NHL for pennies. Europe had no neg.power, so.. you know how it ended. The same here.

Another scenario is what Peter25 wrote.

BS. KHL wanted to hold independent championship from the start, but couldn't do it because of that law. Until that law isn't changed all power will be in the hands of FHR.

Your example have no sense because Europa and NHL are completely independent sides unlike FHR and KHL.

 

[vorky]

It is sad you dont understand it.

 

[alce*]

It is sad you dont understand it.

What exactly I don't understand? Sorry, bro, but I've given you all information about this problem. You could keep ignoring reality, but it changes nothing.

 

[Den]

IIHF is not even an issue here. You need to cut the ties between FHR and KHL

 

[Jussi]

IIHF is not even an issue here. You need to cut the ties between FHR and KHL

The way alce described the relations between the government, RHF and KHL, I don't think that is going to happen: http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showpost.php?p=77655861&postcount=995

 

[Den]

The way alce described the relations between the government, RHF and KHL, I don't think that is going to happen: http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showpost.php?p=77655861&postcount=995

That's why we have Fetisov in the parliament, to make it happen

 

[Jussi]

That's why we have Fetisov in the parliament, to make it happen

The same Fetisov that wants Russian state owned companies to stop sponsoring foreign clubs/sport?

 

[Den]

The same Fetisov that wants Russian state owned companies to stop sponsoring foreign clubs/sport?

Well, one does not contradict the other...