Blue Jays Discussion: time for some post-all-star mini-break speculating

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Bad News Benning

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My Top 30 jays prospects pre-deadline.

1.)RHP-Jeff Hoffman- he will open eyes next spring training.
2.)CF-Dalton Pompey- should be in LF within few weeks.
3.)LHP-Daniel Norris- Stuff not as sharp as last year for some reason
4.)CF-Anthony Alford- probably my favorite prospect to follow this year
5.)OF/1B-Vlad Jr-Crazy to rank a 16 yr old this high?yes but his potential is sky high
6.)RHP-Miguel Castro- top 5 with Hoff/Norris if they let him start.
7.)RHP-Sean Reid Foley- Love the stuff but needs to be developed well.
8.)1B- Rowdy Tellez- Solid power potential but defense is questionable.
9.)SS- Richard Urena-OBP is only thing holding him back from being highly regarded
10.)RHP-Jon Harris- Control needs to be sharper for college pitcher.
11.)C-Max Pentecost- if he could stay healthy he would be top 10
12.)LHP-Matt Boyd- this years Graveman. would flourish in flyball park.
13.)LHP-Jairo Labourt- Stuff is there but consistency is lacking.
14.)C-Dan Jansen- see Max Pentecost
15.)RHP Jesus Tinoco - Ground ball pitcher with big frame and #4 upside.
16.)LHP- Sugar Shane Dawson- Sleeper prospect. fan since his stint with the C's
17.)LHP- Nick Wells. 3rd rounder from 2014. nice frame and potential.
17.OF- DJ Davis- his status as a prospect will be determined next year in Dunedin
18.)RHP Connor Greene- Nice sleeper prospect who came out of nowhere
19.)3b- Mitch Nay- Not showing the power expected. will be lucky to stay in top20
20.)RHP- Clinton Hollon- Flashed average stuff when I watched him.
21.)LHP- Angel Perdomo- Needs to be challenged in Lansing next year like Tinoco.
22.)RHP- Alberto Tirado- I'd like to see him tried as a starter again.
23.)LHP- Evan Smith- another sleeper and another giant Lefty
24.)SS Yeltsin Gudino- 18 yr old starting to hit recently in Bluefield.
25.)LHP- Matt Smoral- disappointing season after progress last season.
26.)2b-Lane Thomas- shows nice power but he is a guy who needs to hit for average
27.)LF- Dwight Smith JR- future 4th OF if he makes the bigs.
28.)RHP- Tom Robson- Groundball machine.
29.)RHP- Justin Maese- recent 3rd rounder with nice upside
30.)RHP-Jose Espada- Jays may have found another gem

HM: OF Reggie Pruitt, SS Dawel Lugo, LHP Ryan Borucki, SS Jesus Severino, RHP Juan Meza, RHP Guadalupe Chavez, RHP Yennsy Diaz, SS Sterling Guzman, OF Roemon Fields

19 of my Top 30 are pitchers. good news is that Dunedin and Lansing should have interesting rotations next season. Bad news is that there isn't much in the way of bats coming through the lower levels. The best bats in the system below Lansing are a recently signed 16 yr old vlad JR, recently drafted Pruitt, and some 17/18 yr olds in the DSL.

If we do make a trade it would be a lot easier for this system to handle the loss of pitching prospects. There are a bunch of arms in the lower levels to handle the loss of Castro, SRF, Boyd, etc but not much to replace the loss of our top hitting prospects.
 

KapG

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And you're obsessing over prospect capital that is 2, 3, 4 years away from potentially making contributions in the big leagues. Never mind the fact the majority of them will not reach their ceiling.

No, I'm against trading Norris and Hoffman and Sanchez.

Those are the guys I've been adamant about keeping. Pompey to a lesser degree.

It's when I see people suggesting we move one of those guys for players that will be rentals that I get fired up.

I don't see those above players as guys that are going to take 3-4 years to make an impact. I think Norris and obviously Sanchez are ready to contribute right now. Hoffman I can see taking 2-3 but he IS a little older so it might not be a huge shock if he gets through our system quickly.

Those guys like Castro, Pentecost and the others? I'm OK moving them...
 

rojac

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NOOOOOOOOOO!! Its been way too many years they pass up on opportunities to make the playoffs.

Well, I don't think they should either. But if they're not going to be buyers, then it would seem to make sense that they should be sellers.
 

trellaine201

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Feb 10, 2010
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Yep if you can trade for Samardzija, potentially signing him for a few years after to shore up our rotation for a few years by giving up a top prospect (assuming Norris of Hoffman) that has a chance to amount to Samardzija (maybe better) or nothing at all, I think you do it. It really depends on if the White Sox are ready to pack it in.

You can bet he isn't signing a two yr contract lol. He will be signing a much longer one.
 

Scion

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May 25, 2012
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You do realize that you can make a trade and not "sell off the farm".

Also, can you define "selling off the farm"? I'm curious as to exactly what you mean.

Exactly, and there is no reason that an acquisition at the deadline can't be apart of future playoff runs. The key is finding the right fit at a cost that makes sense.
 

rojac

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No, I'm against trading Norris and Hoffman and Sanchez.

Those are the guys I've been adamant about keeping. Pompey to a lesser degree.

It's when I see people suggesting we move one of those guys for players that will be rentals that I get fired up.

I don't see those above players as guys that are going to take 3-4 years to make an impact. I think Norris and obviously Sanchez are ready to contribute right now. Hoffman I can see taking 2-3 but he IS a little older so it might not be a huge shock if he gets through our system quickly.

Those guys like Castro, Pentecost and the others? I'm OK moving them...

I honestly think that it wouldn't be that big of a deal to move two of Norris, Hoffman, Sanchez, and Pompey. Now of course, it always depends on the move. But it always depends on the return. And if you're moving two of them, you're probably talking two separate deals or a really big deal that is bringing in two or more players.
 

Eyedea

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I'm not sure anybody is advocating moving those pieces for rentals. The only ones that have come up were Redbeard for Cueto AND Chapman (not a rental), and Calcal for Samardzija (where we would sign him to an extension, though he wouldn't net Norris regardless).

The main idea is definitely to acquire impact players with control however. AA hasn't deviated from this and it's clear when we heard rumours about the Jays interest in acquiring Carrasco.
 

Diamond Joe Quimby

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My Top 30 jays prospects pre-deadline.

1.)RHP-Jeff Hoffman- he will open eyes next spring training.
2.)CF-Dalton Pompey- should be in LF within few weeks.
3.)LHP-Daniel Norris- Stuff not as sharp as last year for some reason
4.)CF-Anthony Alford- probably my favorite prospect to follow this year
5.)OF/1B-Vlad Jr-Crazy to rank a 16 yr old this high?yes but his potential is sky high
6.)RHP-Miguel Castro- top 5 with Hoff/Norris if they let him start.
7.)RHP-Sean Reid Foley- Love the stuff but needs to be developed well.
8.)1B- Rowdy Tellez- Solid power potential but defense is questionable.
9.)SS- Richard Urena-OBP is only thing holding him back from being highly regarded
10.)RHP-Jon Harris- Control needs to be sharper for college pitcher.
11.)C-Max Pentecost- if he could stay healthy he would be top 10
12.)LHP-Matt Boyd- this years Graveman. would flourish in flyball park.
13.)LHP-Jairo Labourt- Stuff is there but consistency is lacking.
14.)C-Dan Jansen- see Max Pentecost
15.)RHP Jesus Tinoco - Ground ball pitcher with big frame and #4 upside.
16.)LHP- Sugar Shane Dawson- Sleeper prospect. fan since his stint with the C's
17.)LHP- Nick Wells. 3rd rounder from 2014. nice frame and potential.
17.OF- DJ Davis- his status as a prospect will be determined next year in Dunedin
18.)RHP Connor Greene- Nice sleeper prospect who came out of nowhere
19.)3b- Mitch Nay- Not showing the power expected. will be lucky to stay in top20
20.)RHP- Clinton Hollon- Flashed average stuff when I watched him.
21.)LHP- Angel Perdomo- Needs to be challenged in Lansing next year like Tinoco.
22.)RHP- Alberto Tirado- I'd like to see him tried as a starter again.
23.)LHP- Evan Smith- another sleeper and another giant Lefty
24.)SS Yeltsin Gudino- 18 yr old starting to hit recently in Bluefield.
25.)LHP- Matt Smoral- disappointing season after progress last season.
26.)2b-Lane Thomas- shows nice power but he is a guy who needs to hit for average
27.)LF- Dwight Smith JR- future 4th OF if he makes the bigs.
28.)RHP- Tom Robson- Groundball machine.
29.)RHP- Justin Maese- recent 3rd rounder with nice upside
30.)RHP-Jose Espada- Jays may have found another gem

HM: OF Reggie Pruitt, SS Dawel Lugo, LHP Ryan Borucki, SS Jesus Severino, RHP Juan Meza, RHP Guadalupe Chavez, RHP Yennsy Diaz, SS Sterling Guzman, OF Roemon Fields

19 of my Top 30 are pitchers. good news is that Dunedin and Lansing should have interesting rotations next season. Bad news is that there isn't much in the way of bats coming through the lower levels. The best bats in the system below Lansing are a recently signed 16 yr old vlad JR, recently drafted Pruitt, and some 17/18 yr olds in the DSL.

If we do make a trade it would be a lot easier for this system to handle the loss of pitching prospects. There are a bunch of arms in the lower levels to handle the loss of Castro, SRF, Boyd, etc but not much to replace the loss of our top hitting prospects.

Good list. It looks like you put a lot of thought into it, which is good to see.

When it comes to prospects, I like to group them in with big leaguers under the age of 25 and then create the list based on value (future value + trade value).

In terms of that, my list isn't too far off of yours:

1. Stroman (65 FV)
2. Norris (60 FV)
3. Hoffman (60 FV)
4. The Dirty (55 FV)
5. Osuna (55 FV)
6. Hutch (50 FV)
7. Travis (50 FV)
8. Alford (50 FV)
9. Pompey (50 FV)
10. Castro (50 FV)
11. Harris (50 FV)

That's followed by eleven 45 FV guys.
 

rojac

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I'm not sure anybody is advocating moving those pieces for rentals. The only ones that have come up were Redbeard for Cueto AND Chapman (not a rental), and Calcal for Samardzija (where we would sign him to an extension, though he wouldn't net Norris regardless).

The main idea is definitely to acquire impact players with control however. AA hasn't deviated from this and it's clear when we heard rumours about the Jays interest in acquiring Carrasco.

I'd consider moving Pompey, Castro, or lower for a rental. Not Sanchez, Norris, Hoffman, or Stroman. But I'll add that my opinion on this should not be taken too seriously because I do not really consider myself qualified to seriously discuss this.
 

Nasty Nazem

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I think I'd put Alford as the Jays #1 prospect on my list. Maybe its crazy but man, that upside and the performance he's shown in limited appearance with barely any pro ball experience shows there's upside there for a potential superstar which I don't think any other Jays prospect possesses.

Out of all the prospects we have, I think he's the one I wouldn't want to give up.
 

Eyedea

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I'd consider moving Pompey, Castro, or lower for a rental. Not Sanchez, Norris, Hoffman, or Stroman. But I'll add that my opinion on this should not be taken too seriously because I do not really consider myself qualified to seriously discuss this.

See I can understand Castro no problem. He's probably a 100-150 prospect right now with 45-50 FV, likely more of a bullpen arm however. Pompey would probably be the biggest ticket AA would offer for a Cueto or Price. I've said this within the past two days and I'll say it again though, Cueto is probably the most riskiest venture for the Jays. He will not re-sign, and he has not only been inconsistent lately but offers an incredibly high risk of injury.

All rentals are 2nd tier for AA right now. I'm almost positive he would lean towards acquiring Carrasco for a large sum than to move say, Norris for Price.
 

Diamond Joe Quimby

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I think I'd put Alford as the Jays #1 prospect on my list. Maybe its crazy but man, that upside and the performance he's shown in limited appearance with barely any pro ball experience shows there's upside there for a potential superstar which I don't think any other Jays prospect possesses.

Out of all the prospects we have, I think he's the one I wouldn't want to give up.

I've got him as a 50 FV (potential 55) (50 hit, 45 power, 45 arm, 60 field, 60 speed). He's got Lorenzo Kane written all over him.
 

Swervin81

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Nov 10, 2011
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Methinks AA is really trying to pull a rabbit out of his ass that will blow the lid off everyone. Somebody with control. Somebody who is elite. Somebody who has not been talked about at all w.r.t the Jays. Somebody who isn't even a pitcher. Somebody like... Tulo.

:sarcasm:

Okay, maybe not that random, but something random for sure, for better or worse.
 

Canada4Gold

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Dec 22, 2010
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I think I'd put Alford as the Jays #1 prospect on my list. Maybe its crazy but man, that upside and the performance he's shown in limited appearance with barely any pro ball experience shows there's upside there for a potential superstar which I don't think any other Jays prospect possesses.

Out of all the prospects we have, I think he's the one I wouldn't want to give up.

Maybe on upside, the odds of him reaching it and not busting drop him lower on the list. He's 4th on my list.

I'd consider moving Pompey, Castro, or lower for a rental. Not Sanchez, Norris, Hoffman, or Stroman. But I'll add that my opinion on this should not be taken too seriously because I do not really consider myself qualified to seriously discuss this.

I'd be fine moving Castro. Pompey I'd have to be blown away. I'd consider Sanchez actually. I'm worried about his command, and if some other team values him highly it might be worth it.

I've got him as a 50 FV (potential 55) (50 hit, 45 power, 45 arm, 60 field, 60 speed). He's got Lorenzo Kane written all over him.

See he seems more like a Patrick Cain type to me :sarcasm:
 

theaub

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Nov 21, 2008
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First time here. Just wondering if there is a certain spot jays fans congregate to before the game. I think I am just going to head to Occidental st.

Assume that any bar in the immediate area will be overrun with Jays fans

They already went for it and it failed miserably.

Yeah they traded Syndergaard and the franchise died and moved to Portland.
 

Bad News Benning

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Exactly, and there is no reason that an acquisition at the deadline can't be apart of future playoff runs. The key is finding the right fit at a cost that makes sense.


You know what the best plan is? keep Hoffman, Norris, Pompey, Alford. trade
a few lesser prospects for a Samardjiza, Leake or Latos. Sign an ace in the off season. boom you have Price/Cueto/whoever, Stroman, Hutch with a bunch of young talented arms behind them. Having a bunch of young cheap SP allows you to throw money around for an ace. If the jays come out with ******** reasons why they won't target one of these top pitchers they might as well just fold the tent on the contending ******** and deal Bautista and EE for some hitting prospects.
 

dredeye

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Mar 3, 2008
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Methinks AA is really trying to pull a rabbit out of his ass that will blow the lid off everyone. Somebody with control. Somebody who is elite. Somebody who has not been talked about at all w.r.t the Jays. Somebody who isn't even a pitcher. Somebody like... Tulo.

:sarcasm:

Okay, maybe not that random, but something random for sure, for better or worse.

Where would tulo play?
 

Diamond Joe Quimby

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Aug 14, 2010
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You know what the best plan is? keep Hoffman, Norris, Pompey, Alford. trade
a few lesser prospects for a Samardjiza, Leake or Latos. Sign an ace in the off season. boom you have Price/Cueto/whoever, Stroman, Hutch with a bunch of young talented arms behind them. Having a bunch of young cheap SP allows you to throw money around for an ace. If the jays come out with ******** reasons why they won't target one of these top pitchers they might as well just fold the tent on the contending ******** and deal Bautista and EE for some hitting prospects.

Who was the last free agent starting pitcher the Cardinals signed?
 

Eyedea

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Shi Davidi ‏@ShiDavidi 2m2 minutes ago
Righty Phillippe Aumont, fresh off Pan Ams gold with Canada, signs minor-league deal with #BlueJays, headed to triple-A Buffalo.
 
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