Post-Game Talk: Tiereny in Ottawa...

[Drivesaitl]

I question why we put a guy who has 5 AHL games this season on the top pair and PP immediately. He is 30 and his last NHL game was May? I don't doubt Kane will get going and I consider the bottom 6 and 3C pretty much fixed now. It's a big checkmark.

I think they should've put him in bottom 6 and let him run wild out there for a few games and get up to speed. Instead it's a zoom in on the bench of him after every shift. Get him out of the media a little, let him play. First 2 games against weak opponents too... I would feel the same about any player after a very long layoff from the NHL. Let him work his way up and overpower the bottom 6 of other teams for now. This notion that he is a 30 goal scorer and .ppg player and will just take off immediately is not one I share. Also, sometimes, it takes guys 10 games to get used to a new team.

'Due dilligence' is funny. Isn't that what Nicholson said before hiring Holland?

Well you know what I think about the orgs due diligence but I figured it was interesting anyhow that Kenny deferred on the question. Had McDrai been ecstatic about the acquisition stands to reason that Holland would have said so.

stop being diligent about my bad spelling. lol

 

[Duke74]

Drai could use somebody on his line that scores goals. We got that guy in Kane, and promptly glue him to McD. Sigh. McD should be the Crosby on the team that can make do with less. Unfortunately between him and Drai Connor is somehow the one more often needing help. That has to change. Pulju and Foegele have a huge opportunity here with Drai and are cashing nothing. Thats a problem. As bad a game as I think Leon played he setup Pulju with an excellent scoring chance in the slot one minute into the game. It was a perfect feed, and should often result in a goal. But Drai can set up his wingers a dozen times in a row and see nothing for it.

And I think you've hinted at the problem - maybe Draisaitl gets frustrated with the play of his wingers - Yamamoto, Foegele, Puljujarvi, whoever. This, in turn, leads him to try to overcompensate by staying out for long OT shifts or trying to make plays singlehandedly, which makes things worse because his fatigue and frustration lead to poor judgment and bad plays.

On no other team do you see star players in the top 5 of goals/points saddled with two bottom-six wingers. Do you think Foegele played with Aho in Carolina? Florida has Barkov and Huberdeau, Toronto has Matthews and Marner, Colorado has McKinnon or Kadri with Rantanen and Landeskog, I could go on. At least make a second line of RNH-Draisaitl-Hyman. Hell, I'll even take Kassian or McLeod in Hyman's place if you want to put Hyman up with McD and move Yamamoto into his rightful place in the bottom 6.

I'm not completely absolving Draisaitl of blame - he needs to do his best to make the situation work without succumbing to frustration - but I find it bizarre that he's literally the only high-end player in the league with two bottom-sixers for wings.

 

[Duke74]

Tipps as many wanted is trying to experiment with a 3 line club. Unfortunately we have guys like Pulju completely cratered, and Yama, almost completely useless still occupying topsix and Stone hands foegele as well. It has to be less acceptable here to have Lucic level struggles that run half a season. Especially on topsix. So that when you remove the talent of Nuge and Hyman from topsix its basically had the effect of stunting topsix.

I mean Foegele and Pulju can't score to save their lives so teams can just double team Drai all day. Meanwhile teams Know they can erase Yama on topline any time and just reclaim the puck. I mean Yama can't even play a third role. We're shorthanded with him on ice.

I would roll a hammer line with Drai centering Pulju and Kane, and give McD Hyman, Nuge, and go back to two lines. People thought 3 lines worked because of Montreal. But you don't often face an ECHL goalie in the NHL.

I completely agree with you. I think Tippett is trying to overcompensate from continually running a one-line team to now running three lines. We have enough wingers for two very strong lines and yet Tippett tries to make three lines, which essentially weakens the first and second line.

By the way, Foegele's nickname has officially changed from McLovin to Stone Hands

 

[SaltNPeca]

Just saw this. Focus will be on the end of the game but the game was lost during the thirty minutes or so that passed when everyone but the 4th line was trying to play fancy dancy hockey. That is not on the players, that is on the Coach. Any half brained hockey observer could see that Ottawa was breaking up the rush and that our stars were fumbling the puck. What's the mantra in that situation that even Junior B coaches know by heart? Simplify. It took our precious top 6 until like 8 minutes left to start just dumping the damn puck in and cycling. I'm sorry, but either Tip decided not to tell them until then or they've stopped listening to him, either way that's a huge coaching problem. In-game adjustments aren't just juggling lines ffs.

I’m sick and tired of Draisaitl’s extended shifts. He barely got to the bench after his two and a half minute OT shift. 45 seconds go hard as hell and get off with McDavid on next. Rinse and repeat. Push the pace.

But Tippett has no problem with running 5 minute shifts for his 2 superstars. Idiot.

Too many similar posts to quote and those NHL fans who accuse Connor & Leon for being selfish and only caring about offensive stats... In the end it's all one thing : Coaching
imo Tip is giving them almost free reign around shift-length and their offensive creativity

Individual players can occasionally take long shifts against their coaches system, but we simply see it too much to imagine this isn't his system OR he isn't in control of his superstars

 

[BudBundy]

On no other team do you see star players in the top 5 of goals/points saddled with two bottom-six wingers.

Sidney Crosby has made a career out of playing with Jake Guentzel, Pascal Dupuis, Conor Sheary and Chris Kunitz. I mean hell, what percentage of his career has Malkin been injured for and not even on the team let alone on his line? Draisaitl is NOT being asked to carry the world on his shoulders by playing with guys like Foegele, Yamamoto, Kassian etc. He has a bad habit of excessively long shifts and it’s as simple as that. I love Drai. He’s awesome. Shift length is something that is a bug in his game, and he can and should cut it out.

 

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

Too many similar posts to quote and those NHL fans who accuse Connor & Leon for being selfish and only caring about offensive stats... In the end it's all one thing : Coaching
imo Tip is giving them almost free reign around shift-length and their offensive creativity

Individual players can occasionally take long shifts against their coaches system, but we simply see it too much to imagine this isn't his system OR he isn't in control of his superstars

Exactly. Tippett encourages it with these ridiculous 2 minute powerplay shifts even when the players start the powerplay after taking a minute long shift.

Tippett has got to go.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Exactly. Tippett encourages it with these ridiculous 2 minute powerplay shifts even when the players start the powerplay after taking a minute long shift.

Tippett has got to go.

If a 13 game losing streak wasn't enough to get Tippett canned nothing will. He's here until the end of the year, which will likely be another 41 games max.

 

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

If a 13 game losing streak wasn't enough to get Tippett canned nothing will. He's here until the end of the year, which will likely be another 41 games max.

I know. I can’t wait to see him burn out 25, 97 and 29 over the next 20 games and we fall out of the playoffs.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

I know. I can’t wait to see him burn out 25, 97 and 29 over the next 20 games and we fall out of the playoffs.

Unfortunately yet again the Oilers are victims of their own success. Even when they were cruising there were still cracks in their game (lack of effort being a big one) and sure enough consistently giving up the first goal in game after game has sent them on a spiral. Good that we picked it up a bit with points in 5 straight but it's extremely tough to imagine this team as anything more than first round fodder.

 

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

Unfortunately yet again the Oilers are victims of their own success. Even when they were cruising there were still cracks in their game (lack of effort being a big one) and sure enough consistently giving up the first goal in game after game has sent them on a spiral. Good that we picked it up a bit with points in 5 straight but it's extremely tough to imagine this team as anything more than first round fodder.

I don’t believe we make the playoffs this year with this goaltending and our teams inability to box players out and take the body in front of our net.

 

[Duke74]

Sidney Crosby has made a career out of playing with Jake Guentzel, Pascal Dupuis, Conor Sheary and Chris Kunitz. I mean hell, what percentage of his career has Malkin been injured for and not even on the team let alone on his line? Draisaitl is NOT being asked to carry the world on his shoulders by playing with guys like Foegele, Yamamoto, Kassian etc. He has a bad habit of excessively long shifts and it’s as simple as that. I love Drai. He’s awesome. Shift length is something that is a bug in his game, and he can and should cut it out.

Good point about Crosby, although I disagree about Guentzel being a bottom-six player. Hell, he'd be the Oilers best winger by a country mile. Even prime Kunitz was a 50-60 point guy before Crosby, probably an upgrade on Hyman.

I agree about the "bad habits" and I think they're a product of frustration as I mentioned in my earlier post. I'm not sure what the solution is, other than making concerted efforts for improvement, but I do know that both shift length and line combinations can be tied to Tippett.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

I don’t believe we make the playoffs this year with this goaltending and our teams inability to box players out and take the body in front of our net.

We might sneak in due to the two big guns but with every loss that gets further and further away. If the Oilers go on another losing streak Holland should just sell off what he has.

 

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

We might sneak in due to the two big guns but with every loss that gets further and further away. If the Oilers go on another losing streak Holland should just sell off what he has.

LA and the Ducks aren’t falling off like people expect. Vegas is getting Eichel soon. The Flames can at least suffocate teams to win games.

We rely solely on outscoring our mistakes with pretty passing to win games.

We have a near zero work ethic most games. Playing hard in front of both nets is a foreign concept to our players and Tippett just stands there with his hands in his pockets and his only answer is to play the stars more. And then we have the nearly the leagues worst goaltending and surely the most inconsistent.

Making the playoffs playing this way with this goaltending probably won’t happen and if it does playing the Avs in the first round will mean another rapid exit.

 

[Soundwave]

I don’t believe we make the playoffs this year with this goaltending and our teams inability to box players out and take the body in front of our net.

Holland needs to be fired in that case or at least removed from the day to day GM position.

They badly need a proven coach that does not allow for cheating on defence (ie: Julien, Tortorella). I don't care if they "like" the new coach or not, enough with the soft hands approach, it doesn't work with this group.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

LA and the Ducks aren’t falling off like people expect. Vegas is getting Eichel soon. The Flames can at least suffocate teams to win games.

We rely solely on outscoring our mistakes with pretty passing to win games.

We have a near zero work ethic most games. Playing hard in front of both nets is a foreign concept to our players and Tippett just stands there with his hands in his pockets and his only answer is to play the stars more. And then we have the nearly the leagues worst goaltending and surely the most inconsistent.

Making the playoffs playing this way with this goaltending probably won’t happen and if it does playing the Avs in the first round will mean another rapid exit.

Vegas is going to run away with the division easily, it'll be between them and the Avs for top spot in the West and I would be surprised if that wasn't the Conference Finals.

Since I have the NHL package I frequently watch other games and am always impressed by how much harder other teams work compared to ours. This team doesn't have a good work ethic, even early on. Their strategy was "Wait for a few power plays then style on them." Unfortunately I think a lot of those habits settled in as the team is never ready and routinely gets outworked. And of course the goaltending...

I can't help but look at a team like Vegas. Yes I know they haven't won the big prize yet but they are always looking to improve the team and don't let silly things like loyalty or whatever get in the way. They want to win and they'll do anything to do it. A rube like Kassian would've been jettisoned (or might actually play the way he can) on a team like Vegas, and they certainly wouldn't have handed him the fat contract we gave him.

There really is just so much wrong with this team from the top on down. I know they lost yesterday but it sure feels like Detroit, Kenny's old haunt, will be better sooner rather than later, especially since Yzerman has already basically fixed most of Holland's errors.

 

[K1984]

LA and the Ducks aren’t falling off like people expect. Vegas is getting Eichel soon. The Flames can at least suffocate teams to win games.

We rely solely on outscoring our mistakes with pretty passing to win games.

We have a near zero work ethic most games. Playing hard in front of both nets is a foreign concept to our players and Tippett just stands there with his hands in his pockets and his only answer is to play the stars more. And then we have the nearly the leagues worst goaltending and surely the most inconsistent.

Making the playoffs playing this way with this goaltending probably won’t happen and if it does playing the Avs in the first round will mean another rapid exit.

The most frustrating thing is on paper we should have a hard working team. RNH and Kassian are the two that stick out as having effort that drops off at times, but for the most part everyone else has been regarded as hard working more or less for all their careers.

As far as McDavid and Leon go, I don't think they ever really truly take nights off, but they need to understand the concept of "work smart not hard." They do not work smart on a lot of nights and it just ends up costing them more energy with worse results.

Leon has games (like last night) where I watch and honestly don't want anyone to pass to him because I know that there is about a 70% chance the play will die with him, usually with a pointless turnover. Their default when they are frustrated is to work harder only to get worse results. They need to figure this out.

 

[Louis Cypher]

I question why we put a guy who has 5 AHL games this season on the top pair and PP immediately. He is 30 and his last NHL game was May? I don't doubt Kane will get going and I consider the bottom 6 and 3C pretty much fixed now. It's a big checkmark.

I think they should've put him in bottom 6 and let him run wild out there for a few games and get up to speed. Instead it's a zoom in on the bench of him after every shift. Get him out of the media a little, let him play. First 2 games against weak opponents too... I would feel the same about any player after a very long layoff from the NHL. Let him work his way up and overpower the bottom 6 of other teams for now. This notion that he is a 30 goal scorer and .ppg player and will just take off immediately is not one I share. Also, sometimes, it takes guys 10 games to get used to a new team.

'Due dilligence' is funny. Isn't that what Nicholson said before hiring Holland?

Again doesn't look good to the other players. He should have had to work his way up a little at least.

 

[Drivesaitl]

And I think you've hinted at the problem - maybe Draisaitl gets frustrated with the play of his wingers - Yamamoto, Foegele, Puljujarvi, whoever. This, in turn, leads him to try to overcompensate by staying out for long OT shifts or trying to make plays singlehandedly, which makes things worse because his fatigue and frustration lead to poor judgment and bad plays.

On no other team do you see star players in the top 5 of goals/points saddled with two bottom-six wingers. Do you think Foegele played with Aho in Carolina? Florida has Barkov and Huberdeau, Toronto has Matthews and Marner, Colorado has McKinnon or Kadri with Rantanen and Landeskog, I could go on. At least make a second line of RNH-Draisaitl-Hyman. Hell, I'll even take Kassian or McLeod in Hyman's place if you want to put Hyman up with McD and move Yamamoto into his rightful place in the bottom 6.

I'm not completely absolving Draisaitl of blame - he needs to do his best to make the situation work without succumbing to frustration - but I find it bizarre that he's literally the only high-end player in the league with two bottom-sixers for wings.

Its clearly gotten to the point where McDrai are just saying f*** it to the notion that they carry a club year after year. I knew this day would come, just wondering when it would. Every game this duo looks at opposing goalies being better than their own and every game Drai has to see top players having much better wingers than he typically has. Its hard for a coach to keep saying "well just stick with the program" there is no program. I mean I like that we got Kane all day, but these juicy grapes hanging on vines. Holland still hasn't addressed the key goaltending need. i do think the moment we get a legit goalie you're going to see a return to resolve in McDrai game. Or I hope so..

 

[Drivesaitl]

Again doesn't look good to the other players. He should have had to work his way up a little at least.

Well its desperation isn't it. But the reality is that Kane, even a Kane that hasn't played in several months, is still a better option than half our topsix. Tipps and the club need help now, and our topsix have needed help for several months. We're in the middle of a playoff race thanks to lousy goaltending. Thus necessitating shifts that maybe less than ideal.

 

[bellagiobob]

 

[Soundwave]

Well its desperation isn't it. But the reality is that Kane, even a Kane that hasn't played in several months, is still a better option than half our topsix. Tipps and the club need help now, and our topsix have needed help for several months. We're in the middle of a playoff race thanks to lousy goaltending. Thus necessitating shifts that maybe less than ideal.

Tippett is a poor coach. He's let the team get away with lazy habits for 3 years but was willing to let it slide because they could quite often get away with winning that way.

We need a Tortorella or Julien who will not compromise on demanding buy-in to a full 200 foot style of hockey with some fire behind the bench in the worst way.

 

[Rengorlex]

I've been very dissapointed by the leadership that McDavid and Draisaitl have shown in regards to their shift length, especially in OT but in regular gameplay as well. They'll always say that it's about winning and nothing else, but their behaviour shows that they still care heavily about the individual scoring, awards and recognition.

It's like Ovechkin in Washington, where the focus has been on how many goals an individual scores often times more than it has been in winning the Stanley Cup. I don't remember Pittsburgh ever caring about Crosby scoring 100 points or making a big deal out of his scoring feats. Or Crosby burning himself out trying to achieve a meaningless round number.

Obviously they are the reason this team isn't in the basement and not the problem, but it's still dissapointing. I come expecting growth and see none.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Tippett is a poor coach. He's let the team get away with lazy habits for 3 years but was willing to let it slide because they could quite often get away with winning that way.

We need a Tortorella or Julien who will not compromise on demanding buy-in to a full 200 foot style of hockey with some fire behind the bench in the worst way.

You've moved off of Old yeller? heh

 

[elmeroil]

Thoughts

Koski prob should've have winner but that was a nice shot. For his 3rd game in a row he was fine. People sitting on him are on the wrong toilet.

Kane should fir right in here in no time. If he's as selfish as people think, he'll go along nicely with our other top players. Until they learn this we will continue to disappoint.

Seemed like Shore, Foegele, and Kassian were benched late. Did I miss a reason? Tipp switched lines when I thought McLeod and Ryan were meshing nicely.

Yep, I've been hard on Koskinen but this loss was not on him. It's the selfish play of Connor and mostly Leon. That was embarrassing watching them try to be the 2 man show out of gas while fresh and able players sat and watched. If that was coaching then that's disgusting. If that was solely the players decision that was disgusting.

I'd be pissed if I was any of those fresh players watching that train wreck.

 

[Soundwave]

You've moved off of Old yeller? heh

I would take Babcock as well, but Torts or Julien are probably even more strict defensively.

This team needs that even if they don't want it. We're letting the children run the day care here and then acting surprised that it's become a zoo.

Tippett bailed out on any structure like by the first December of his tenure and just opted to ride the "play McDavid and Draisaitl to death and bank on the goalie to make big stops" formula which can work for stretches but undermines a proper team concept in the long run.