Ticket/Attendance Discussion

[David Mandel]

Well well well well. TNSE is starting to set up agreements for 2021-22 NHL season season tickets.

Starting in May for regular payments. Starting April for corporate and luxury suites (I have a large contract with TNSE)

I have informed TNSE that we will not be paying for any agreement until they begin to accept fans. We were advised that is in violation of our agreement which I told them I pay in full and i'm not paying any amount of money (similar to the Blue Bombers) where they keep my $$ over a long period of time.

Now most season ticket holders pay monthly. Get ready for May!

I have had special privileges where I never had to pay for my seats until pre-season games and then paid in full. And that is exactly what I am willing to do. Everyone has their own agenda but just to warn Jets fans that season ticket payments are starting real soon.

Click to read more...

 

[mew1976]

I got the email yesterday as well. I immediately called my rep and advised that I won’t be giving them any monies until there is government clearance for fans to attend. She didn’t have an answer for me and said she would get back to me.

 

[LucianoBorsato]

Since my seat costs me less than $100 a month, I don't mind starting to pay again. Teams need to get some cash flow in again and I don't mind contributing my small amount. Likely by fall if vaccinations keep pace, people will be able to attend games again.

I can definitely see people with high priced seats and boxes not being very happy, though.

 

[cbcwpg]

Not surprised and fully expecting this. All teams are assuming a next season that will start on time and allow fans. I can see this south of the border, but up here? Maybe ...

 

[leer2006]

Not surprised and fully expecting this. All teams are assuming a next season that will start on time and allow fans. I can see this south of the border, but up here? Maybe ...

And they may only allow limited capacity. How would that play out?

 

[LucianoBorsato]

And they may only allow limited capacity. How would that play out?

My guess, less games available per contract with reduced payment amounts or payment refunds (if people have overpayed), something like that. It's not like TNSE takes the money and runs, they refunded/credited payments last year and have for playoff games.

People seem to have some idea that they are always trying to stiff the STH, but it's never been my experience after 10 years of being one. It fits a narrative, though, I guess.

 

[jetsv2]

People seem to have some idea that they are always trying to stiff the STH, but it's never been my experience after 10 years of being one. It fits a narrative, though, I guess.

My family gave up our season tickets after last year when our contract ended. A couple years before that, we were in a financial position where it was becoming nearly impossible to afford our tickets. We contacted our ticket rep to explain our situation and ask to get out of our contract early.

The ticket rep told us that if we didn't pay for all of the years we had committed to buying tickets for, they would take legal action to get their money. That was the only response we received on the issue.

It wasn't a very positive interaction, and I have heard from other season ticket holders who received a similar response when asking about getting out of their ticket contract.

Threatening your fans with legal action when you had a waiting list of other people who wanted to buy those tickets seems extreme to me.

 

[LucianoBorsato]

My family gave up our season tickets after last year when our contract ended. A couple years before that, we were in a financial position where it was becoming nearly impossible to afford our tickets. We contacted our ticket rep to explain our situation and ask to get out of our contract early. The ticket rep told us that if we didn't pay for all of the years we had committed to buying tickets for, they would take legal action to get their money. That was the only response we received on the issue. It wasn't a very positive interaction, and I have heard from other season ticket holders who received a similar response when asking about getting out of their ticket contract.

I understand that, and trust me I have been in dire financial straights when I was younger and was on credit collectors speed dial, I'm sure. But a contract is a contract, so no one should be too surprised when a company expects someone to fulfill their obligations on it, whatever the circumstances (and sorry to hear you did have a difficult time that affected being able to pay for the contract).

My point was that if we pay ahead of time or overpay for games, the narrative being presented is that TNSE is going to run away with bags of cash and screw us over and not refund us if it so happens that we can't attend games or attendance is reduced etc, which is just false. That isn't the same category as trying to cancel your ticket agreement and they aren't budging.

 

[jetsv2]

I understand that, and trust me I have been in dire financial straights when I was younger and was on credit collectors speed dial, I'm sure. But a contract is a contract, so no one should be too surprised when a company expects someone to fulfill their obligations on it, whatever the circumstances (and sorry to hear you did have a difficult time that affected being able to pay for the contract).

My point was that if we pay ahead of time or overpay for games, the narrative being presented is that TNSE is going to run away with bags of cash and screw us over and not refund us if it so happens that we can't attend games or attendance is reduced etc, which is just false. That isn't the same category as trying to cancel your ticket agreement and they aren't budging.

My point was, there is a history of true north not being overly friendly or kind to their paying customers. There have been a bunch of threads on this site over the last 10 years of people posting about their negative experiences dealing with TNSE as a customer.

 

[LucianoBorsato]

My point was, there is a history of true north not being overly friendly or kind to their paying customers. There have been a bunch of threads on this site over the last 10 years of people posting about their negative experiences dealing with TNSE as a customer.

I'm sure, and I'm not defending them at all. But they are a business after all and they are going to try and get their contracts paid out, and if they didn't they probably wouldn't have been in the NHL business for 10 years. Not saying that is right or wrong. If we can't make our mortgage or car payments, the bank is going to repossess on us. They could care less for our reasons for not making payments and that is an accepted practice by our society.

My personal experience is I haven't had a problem with them. There was a few times in the first couple seasons where I was short money for my payment (like I said, my younger days) and they deferred my payment no problem and I wasn't dissatisfied as a customer. I've never dealt with trying to end the contract so I have nothing to add on that part. But I did mean, for what this thread is about (ie beginning ST payments again, NOT ending contracts) if we pay ahead of time, they will not stiff us out of any overpayments or cancelled games as they haven't done that before.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I got the email yesterday as well. I immediately called my rep and advised that I won’t be giving them any monies until there is government clearance for fans to attend. She didn’t have an answer for me and said she would get back to me.

I am of 2 minds on this issue. On one hand, I am assuming the best and that next season will be near normal. At that point I consider that I am willing to help the Jets a bit by providing some cash flow. On the other hand, I wonder if we might have a restricted capacity to start next year? Or will fans not be allowed until, say December? Maybe both. And then I remember that they still have my money from the last game I had last year.

Being vulnerable, both by age and by underlying health, do I want to be packed that tightly with a crowd of yelling and screaming fans? Even with masks that has to be hazardous. I will certainly have been vaccinated by then but I can't assume that all around me will have been. And vaccination does not provide 100% protection. Just not sure yet where to stand.

 

[LucianoBorsato]

I am of 2 minds on this issue. On one hand, I am assuming the best and that next season will be near normal. At that point I consider that I am willing to help the Jets a bit by providing some cash flow. On the other hand, I wonder if we might have a restricted capacity to start next year? Or will fans not be allowed until, say December? Maybe both. And then I remember that they still have my money from the last game I had last year.

Being vulnerable, both by age and by underlying health, do I want to be packed that tightly with a crowd of yelling and screaming fans? Even with masks that has to be hazardous. I will certainly have been vaccinated by then but I can't assume that all around me will have been. And vaccination does not provide 100% protection. Just not sure yet where to stand.

Personally, if case numbers are very low in the fall then probably 50 % capacity I'd be OK with going to a game, I'd like a bit of space between myself and other seats and if it reduced my ticket load by half no problem with me (I sell half my tickets already). It looks like I can get my vaccine in early May. Definitely not going without that out of the way first and I'd refuse any playoff ticket offers this summer if they do open it up even minimally (I don't think we will be in a position yet with case numbers to allow large gatherings like that)

 

[buggs]

Got my email yesterday on this, wasn't surprised. Actually was pleasantly surprised with the one month delay.

TNSE is hurting so I get where they're going with this, but in Canada the situation is far more uncertain than the U.S. Vaccine supply alone should be an indicator of that. Purchasing/ordering vaccine does not equate to immunization, so I'll hold my breath until we start seeing results (i.e. actual vaccination rates more befitting a first world country).

So with that said I don't see how TNSE can manage this for the coming season realistically. Issues I see:

- capacity is likely not 100%, so how to divide the games up between ticket holders. What if you're the group that gets shafted on the Toronto or Montreal game and you're a big fan?

- how to manage concessions and washrooms - the latest advice out of the CDC is still to wear a mask and social distance even after vaccination (there's a long discussion there we're not allowed to have here) so at the very least from a washroom standpoint you're cutting capacity in half and that's without addressing lineups.

- speaking of lineups, how do you address concessions and concourse traffic at full capacity. I'm sorry, at capacity on a popular Friday or Saturday night game against a desirable team (Toronto, Montreal, Boston, etc.) you're lucky if you can manage six inches between people in the concourse, let alone six feet

- did I say lineups, because yeah, lineups. How do you enter and exit the building maintaining social distance in an uncontrolled situation. Mid-January, -45 C with windchill and people are lined up down Donald to Broadway because of social distancing requirements? How soon do you have to lineup to get in the building in time for puck drop?

- speaking of entering the building, what about the contention of taking people's temperatures prior to granting access? We've completely forgotten that you can actually have a temperature and not be Covid positive, but I know full well that won't be a point of discussion as we err on the side of caution. But what if I feel fine and have an elevated temperature (i.e. I'm asymptomatic and unaware) when I roll up to the door and am refused entry? Am I getting a refund? Because I'm sure not inclined to pay for a game I'm disallowed into. Yeah, if I'm sweating buckets and horking up snot I shouldn't be there regardless, but temperature isn't always related to outward, obvious symptoms.

So many more potential issues, not the least of which is people's comfort level with the pandemic in the first place. I suspect many STH won't be comfortable with even 50% capacity.

I already told my group that we should expect to pay, but it will be past the second payment (August) before TNSE has any realistic idea of how this will pan out. Even then, I expect a degree of foolishness from our politicians/medical professionals in that they won't recognize this is a seasonal flu (more serious, no doubt, but that's it's general pattern) so by October we're going to see cases climbing again (the plus side being come fall/winter there will be no regular flu, colds, liver failure, heart attacks or strokes, but I digress).

 

[LucianoBorsato]

Got my email yesterday on this, wasn't surprised. Actually was pleasantly surprised with the one month delay.

TNSE is hurting so I get where they're going with this, but in Canada the situation is far more uncertain than the U.S. Vaccine supply alone should be an indicator of that. Purchasing/ordering vaccine does not equate to immunization, so I'll hold my breath until we start seeing results (i.e. actual vaccination rates more befitting a first world country).

So with that said I don't see how TNSE can manage this for the coming season realistically. Issues I see:

- capacity is likely not 100%, so how to divide the games up between ticket holders. What if you're the group that gets shafted on the Toronto or Montreal game and you're a big fan?

- how to manage concessions and washrooms - the latest advice out of the CDC is still to wear a mask and social distance even after vaccination (there's a long discussion there we're not allowed to have here) so at the very least from a washroom standpoint you're cutting capacity in half and that's without addressing lineups.

- speaking of lineups, how do you address concessions and concourse traffic at full capacity. I'm sorry, at capacity on a popular Friday or Saturday night game against a desirable team (Toronto, Montreal, Boston, etc.) you're lucky if you can manage six inches between people in the concourse, let alone six feet

- did I say lineups, because yeah, lineups. How do you enter and exit the building maintaining social distance in an uncontrolled situation. Mid-January, -45 C with windchill and people are lined up down Donald to Broadway because of social distancing requirements? How soon do you have to lineup to get in the building in time for puck drop?

- speaking of entering the building, what about the contention of taking people's temperatures prior to granting access? We've completely forgotten that you can actually have a temperature and not be Covid positive, but I know full well that won't be a point of discussion as we err on the side of caution. But what if I feel fine and have an elevated temperature (i.e. I'm asymptomatic and unaware) when I roll up to the door and am refused entry? Am I getting a refund? Because I'm sure not inclined to pay for a game I'm disallowed into. Yeah, if I'm sweating buckets and horking up snot I shouldn't be there regardless, but temperature isn't always related to outward, obvious symptoms.

So many more potential issues, not the least of which is people's comfort level with the pandemic in the first place. I suspect many STH won't be comfortable with even 50% capacity.

I already told my group that we should expect to pay, but it will be past the second payment (August) before TNSE has any realistic idea of how this will pan out. Even then, I expect a degree of foolishness from our politicians/medical professionals in that they won't recognize this is a seasonal flu (more serious, no doubt, but that's it's general pattern) so by October we're going to see cases climbing again (the plus side being come fall/winter there will be no regular flu, colds, liver failure, heart attacks or strokes, but I digress).

I didn't even think of concessions...maybe they will allow us to bring a bag lunch and a 6 pack? With reduced capacity it would be easier to manage distance etc, but even that will be difficult. Especially with drunk people.

I have half season tickets. You basically get your split and accept how many good or bad games you end up with. I think people will be OK with this as it seems there are so many seat groups already that split up their games and I think by that point there will be many who just want some form of entertainment to go to. Does your group draw games randomly?

 

[blues10]

I didn’t even see a reps email to contact just a generic contact email. I am not setting foot inside BMTS until the pandemic is declared over in Canada. There was a option to change seat locations which I declined.

 

[David Mandel]

I will also add which is more personal opinion than fact. But some of you are correct. TNSE is bleeding and likely if fans do not return to buildings like asap TNSE will be in tough position to sell off the company to investors.

But they have the richest person in Canada as owner? Why? How? Let me explain.

Majority of people do not understand how TNSE is set up and how they were initially funded and where the debt payments initially incurred to the existing debt ratio. The shuffling of Mark Chipmans personal family ventures was a clear sign he was the sole operator of TNSE. How is he paying his debt? What is the financial expenditures from the Winnipeg Jets to TN Square or any the other ventures? Is he writing off the existing debt? Has he taken $$ from 1 to pay off the other? These are all questions someone like Forbes would ask but it's basically irrelevant cause we do not know Thomson's financial role to his servicing debt in his ventures.

It's almost a sure likelihood that Thomson is the majority owner and Mark Chipman bankrolled the franchise value of his shares as capital to pay off is real estate deals. The one problem is he didn't expect a pandemic to stop $$ coming in so my guess Thomson is helping out. That only works so long because it eventually will wipe Mr. Chipman out of the picture. And all he is doing is taking a personal salary from the company as CEO.

Is this the grand vision of TNSE?

I doubt it. I really doubt this partnership can last without a massive infusion of $$ from the NHL and the city of Winnipeg (fans) and TN Sq to really turn a corner.

It's my opinion. But I really think TNSE could be in trouble.

 

[Guardian17]

I'm just happy that fans will be allowed back in building soon!

 

[Samus]

I’m going to guess this will go a lot like it did for the lockout season. If the capacity allowed is only at %50, we will all not be billed after half season is paid for. It’s very likely games given to all of us season seat holders will be at random this season as will seating. The email kind of hinted at that. I personally don’t like the idea of paying for unknowns but I’m also a realist and TNSE wasn’t ever going to float this team for two seasons either.

 

[robertocarlos]

I see all kinds of problems. First the third wave will affect any opening. If the Province allows partial opening then you have the more problems. Some STH are from the same household, some are not and could not sit together. Covid changes everything, including agreements with TNSE.

 

[JetsNut]

My family gave up our season tickets after last year when our contract ended. A couple years before that, we were in a financial position where it was becoming nearly impossible to afford our tickets. We contacted our ticket rep to explain our situation and ask to get out of our contract early.

The ticket rep told us that if we didn't pay for all of the years we had committed to buying tickets for, they would take legal action to get their money. That was the only response we received on the issue.

It wasn't a very positive interaction, and I have heard from other season ticket holders who received a similar response when asking about getting out of their ticket contract.

Threatening your fans with legal action when you had a waiting list of other people who wanted to buy those tickets seems extreme to me.

They can threaten legal action all they want. It’s true that your season ticket contract bonds you to it’s terms. However if you are unable to fulfill your obligations the TNSE must do everything necessary to mirage their losses. This would mean going to the waiting list.

 

[BigZ65]

I see all kinds of problems. First the third wave will affect any opening. If the Province allows partial opening then you have the more problems. Some STH are from the same household, some are not and could not sit together. Covid changes everything, including agreements with TNSE.

Yeah this is a shakedown for cash plain and simple. Given how long it took for TNSE to make my group whole for 19-20 there’s not going to be a lot of movement on our end to get them cash for a product that doesn’t exist currently. If they choose to end our agreement, we won’t be broken up. There’s no plan for anything and we will almost certainly see phased reopening as science catches up to the variants. We currently have a variant running through PCH’s here again where all staff and residents have been vaccinated. This isn’t over.

 

[Hollywood3]

In the event the team gets short notice on fans being allowed it becomes a race against time to get tickets out. The collection and distribution usually takes several weeks. Anyhow I bowed out last year due to the digital tracking.

 

[Spock]

It's almost a sure likelihood

Phrase of the year

 

[Spock]

We currently have a variant running through PCH’s here again where all staff and residents have been vaccinated. This isn’t over.

The bolded isn't true. Multiple staff members at my grandparents' PCH aren't vaccinated yet. They're "waiting."

 

[Gm0ney]

I am of 2 minds on this issue. On one hand, I am assuming the best and that next season will be near normal. At that point I consider that I am willing to help the Jets a bit by providing some cash flow. On the other hand, I wonder if we might have a restricted capacity to start next year? Or will fans not be allowed until, say December? Maybe both. And then I remember that they still have my money from the last game I had last year.

Being vulnerable, both by age and by underlying health, do I want to be packed that tightly with a crowd of yelling and screaming fans? Even with masks that has to be hazardous. I will certainly have been vaccinated by then but I can't assume that all around me will have been. And vaccination does not provide 100% protection. Just not sure yet where to stand.

I think things will be back to normal by October. We're going to be swimming in vaccine in a month or so. The province's most conservative estimates have the entire population vaccinated by mid-June. All the vaccines seem to grant near 100% protection against the most severe form of the disease.

I'm sure there will still be some pandemic Kabuki where they take your temperature when you come in and have hand sanitizer everywhere. They might even require proof of vaccination for entry, which doesn't seem unreasonable (to me...YMMV ).