Thread for Leaf Fans OVER 40 ONLY

[Leaf Lander]

I'm 42


they say unless you learn from history you are bound to repeat it


That said what do you all expect from our team?

 

[HellasLEAF]

Not over 40 (36 close enough) but I couldn't agree more about those teams. And it's no comparison without Bob Cole and Harry Neale.

And I loved the passion returns. I have it and have watched it on a number of occasions.

The year we brought back Gilmour. THAT should have been the year.

 

[Clark4Ever]

I thought I would add a bit of perspective. This is how the tenure of one of the greatest Leaf captains in history ended under the Ballard regime...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darryl_Sittler

The 1978–79 season saw Sittler suffer some knee problems and miss 10 games. It was also the year that Leafs owner Ballard fired and then rehired coach Roger Neilson, a process which saw Sittler lobby on the players' behalf for Neilson's reinstatement.

Sittler's relationship with Ballard slowly deteriorated, particularly after Ballard hired Punch Imlach as general manager in July 1979. Imlach and Ballard both had strained relations with NHLPA executive director Alan Eagleson who, as a player agent, represented more than a dozen Leafs, including Sittler and his best friend and linemate, Lanny McDonald. Imlach believed Sittler had too much influence on the team and tried to undermine his authority with the players. When Sittler and goaltender Mike Palmateer agreed to appear on the TV show Showdown, as negotiated by the NHLPA, Imlach went to court to try to get injunction to stop them. When Imlach said that he was open to offers for Sittler from other teams, Eagleson said it would cost $500,000 to get Sittler to waive the no-trade clause in his contract. So, instead of trading Sittler, Imlach sent McDonald to the woeful Colorado Rockies on December 29, 1979. In response, Sittler ripped the captan's C off his sweater, later commenting that a captain had to be the go-between with players and management, and he no longer had any communication with management.[2] Ballard would liken Sittler's actions to burning the Canadian flag.[3]

Through the summer, Ballard insisted that Sittler would not be back with the Leafs. But before the start of the 1980–81 season, Sittler and Ballard appeared together at a news conference described as "all smiles and buddy-buddy"[4] to announce that Sittler would be at training camp. He showed up with the C back on his sweater, reassuming the role of team captain. Sittler had arranged the talks with Ballard on his own.[4] The discussions took place with Imlach hospitalized following his second heart attack. At the news conference, Ballard said the real battle had been between Imlach and Eagleson, and Sittler just got caught in the crossfire.

During the 1981–82 season, Ballard considered Imlach's health to be too poor for him to continue as general manager. But even with Imlach gone, Sittler's relationship with the Leafs worsened to the point where he told Ballard and acting general manager Gerry McNamara at the end of November that he would waive his no-trade clause if he was sent to the Flyers or the Minnesota North Stars. In the first week of December, Eagleson agreed to terms with Flyers' owner Ed Snider and North Stars' general manager Lou Nanne.[5] But it took another seven weeks for the Leafs to make a deal. During that time, Sittler added the Islanders and Buffalo Sabres to the list of teams he could be traded to. On January 5, 1982, on advice from his physician, Sittler walked out on the Leafs, saying he was "mentally depressed" because a trade was taking so long to complete.

 

[Dustin]

Yeah lets ignore all these years of no playoffs and soft characterless pretenders and find some solace in the world without the geezer Ballard. This is a state of desperation right now that needs to be fixed. Ratings ate dropping you know ha.

This management era is a vivid first hand look at what all us old geezers have to look forward to. Dementia!

Just wait when we are looking back at this last 10 years and saying how great they were compared to our current team. That's the hope I have now. The hope that this team will continue to get worse and worse through the years.

 

[ANDI P IS CUTE]

great posts guys. Mess- the leafs won their last cup when there were only a few teams in the league. I cannot see them winning a cup EVER again tbh.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=deyINv6RY0g

this is the only time in my 44 years that there is absolutely no one on this team I like. no identity, character, will......nothing.

that's what I'm saying. At least you had likeable guys with PASSION during the Ballard era.

the cap era has really hurt the leafs more than almost any other team imho.

I still remember being pissed off when Cole took over for Bill Hewitt....man I'm old.

lol...

 

[ANDI P IS CUTE]

I'm 42 as well (1973).

I am frustrated with this team big time. I never remember a season(s) where I really didn't care if they won or not, and well...that's how I feel now. Obviously I want them to win, but am not disappointed otherwise.

I used to try to get to 1 game a year, be it in Toronto, Detroit (I live in Windsor), been to a game in Buffalo (they actually won - Belfour in net).

My buddy and I drove from Windsor to Raleigh, NC for game 5 in the '02 run. What a blast that was!

I've live through the good times (92-93, 93-94 was good, the teams in late '90s to early 2000s) and the bad (today is nothing compared to the '80s - wow those teams were BAD!!!!). Watched them in MLG a few times.

What I don't understand, and the fans may truly never know the 100% truth.... Is ownership that controlling? Were Burke's hands tied? Is Shanahan in the same situation? Is ownership saying to try and make the playoffs no matter how much of a pipe dream it may be? You'd figure a group of players getting Wilson, then Carlyle fired would be overhauled.....

I belief most Leafs fans (especially those in the 40ish age group) who have tasted a little success, would certainly not have a problem with trading assets for futures. Build from the draft - out. It worked in Chicago, Tampa, Montreal even, LA, Boston to an extent. Why can't it happen here? If they think fans will stop going, they are nuts! This team has such a following (sometimes I wonder why) that they could winless for a season and still sell out every game. I want them to bottom out - go for the rebuild - Arizona pretty much said they were trading Vermette, Yandle..... Buffalo is obviously it.

They could have had a real shot at Stamkos; the year they picked Schenn - they were bad, but made no attempts to trade assets to potentially move up in the draft. Looking back at the Kessel trade - if that doesn't happen (mind you, I think Kessel is special player), are they bad enough to get Hall or Seguin?

Otherwise - I can't see me paying money to go watch a team that has no direction. I haven't even purchased anything "Leafs" in a few years, other than getting gifts. They are in a vicious cycle where the team will be mediocre forever until they do it the right way. Really - if you look at the Marlies and recent draft picks (whatever ones they hold onto), there isn't much hope - certainly no stand out prospect that I can see. Maybe Bibeau? Nylander was questions surrounding him.

Am I embarrassed to cheer for this team - no. I'm as proud a Leafs fan as there is. I am certainly not happy. I hope they come out and say to us fans, that they are going to actually do things the right way.

hey Cam's i'm 42, in Windsor and a leafs fan too I went to Holy Names. You? Kevin.

 

[HellasLEAF]

the cap era has really hurt the leafs more than almost any other team imho.

lol, it's not even close.

 

[garce]

the cap era has really hurt the leafs more than almost any other team imho.

During the Stavro, Pension Plan years and pre cap the organization refused to spend with the Rangers, Wings and Flyers when top players became available. Always citing a internal budget. Some teams were millions ahead of the Leafs in spending. Didn't flex financial muscle much at all.

 

[Budsfan]

I have no relations to Conn Smythe so your posting is fine. I can understand why Smythe may have been disagreeable as he was part of TWO world wars so having some traumatic stress syndrome would have played part in his dealings with people in civilian life after both wars. Smythe was injured in the Second World War and he may have been in a mood when playing golf as he would have been playing through his injury. Too bad he was not more agreeable when you were on the course.

There is no disputing his war record and he was a very brave man, he was a P.O.W. in WW1 and Wounded by shrapnel in WW2, so he was a soldier that was looked up to and was obviously in the thick of many battles.

http://news.nationalpost.com/2011/10/22/kelly-mcparland-conn-smythe-at-war/

http://blog.mapleleafs.com/war-stories-conn-smythe-and-the-shrapnel-that-found-steel/

War Stories: Conn Smythe And The Shrapnel That Found Steel

War shaped Conn Smythe and not necessarily for the good. He was dictatorial and contemptuous of any authority that challenged his own. He once traded a player for marrying in mid-season against his wishes.

The patriot virulently opposed the move to a new Canadian flag. He resigned from the Maple Leafs board of directors when they allowed Muhammad Ali to fight at the Gardens. He harassed and ruthlessly dispatched players who sought to create a players’ association.

I was about 12 years old when I met him, still in public school and as kids, myself and my buddies, looked up to any and all players and anyone connected to the Leafs with awe, they were our heroes and it was quite a shock to be yelled at by him but we weren't deterred and went back and met a number of Leafs and they warmed up to us and hired us to be their Caddie, so it was a great experience and one I've treasured all my life.

*

 

[slozo]

41. Living the dream, unfortunately, the Leafs are in the midst of a nightmare.

I fondly remember the hype and excitement city-wide of the early 90s . . . and even reminisce on the battle of Ontario when we'd perennially beat Ottawa in the playoffs. It was enjoyable to be a Leafs fan in those days.

Now, it's the butt of jokes. It's not the Ballard years - that will not be repeated - but it's not pretty.

I think that our best player needs to be someone the city can get behind and be proud of. Think of something that simple . . . our best player (goalies don't count in this case) needs to lead by example, and the trickle-down happens from there.

Even on mediocre teams, with Wendel Clarke at the helm, or Sundin, you had some pride. Gilmour. Even Kaberle.

Who is actually PROUD of Kessel? We all know he's immensely talented . . . but who feels any kind of pride for a mumbling, lazy overweight talent?

I think it could be quick, or it may yet be slow, but whatever the case, the Leafs rebuild starts and ends with getting rid of Kessel, for me.

 

[ShaneFalco]

44 here
Although they didn't win anything, Pat Quinns teams never backed down, never got pushed around. That in itself was worth watching

This circus act we have for a team now - no heart, no identity, no direction
The whole roster could be traded and I'd maybe miss 2 guys

 

[Budsfan]

This thread may have sparked some writers, or old Leaf players to tell some tales, here's one from the National Post today, I remember this but it actually happened before I became a Leaf devotee, and I might add Meeker was at the Golf tournament but I just saw him, never met him and Stanowski was there too but never met him either.

Piece of Toronto Maple Leafs’ glorious past or elaborate fraud? Wally Stanowski insists teammate Howie Meeker’s five-goal game was a work of fiction

http://news.nationalpost.com/2015/0...-famous-five-goal-game-was-a-work-of-fiction/

TORONTO — Wally Stanowski was sitting on his couch in a nursing home in Toronto’s west end not long ago, listening to golden oldies on the radio and leafing through the sports section, a daily ritual. But on that particular day, Stanowksi wasn’t very pleased by what he was reading in a brief item acknowledging Howie Meeker’s 91st birthday.

The story described how, as a player with the Toronto Maple Leafs, Meeker joined the team after serving overseas in the war and “set a [NHL] rookie record of five goals in one game in a win against Chicago in 1947, helping him land the Calder Trophy that year.”

Stanowski grumbled to himself, just as he had grumbled publicly last summer about Meeker and the five-goal game during an interview with the Society of International Hockey Research, a conversation that has had hockey historians buzzing since, and that brought me to Stanowski’s front door recently where, after turning down the volume on a Fats Domino CD (Blueberry Hill), the 95-year-old grumbled some more.

“I scored two of them,” Stanowski says. He means he scored two of the five goals that, on Jan. 8, 1947 — an NHL-record-setting night at Maple Leaf Gardens — were credited to Howie Meeker, the rookie, and a teammate of Wally Stanowski, known to Leafs fans as the “Whirling Dervish.”

 

[RLF]

I'm actually surprised to see this many of us over 40. Good to see.
The Ballard years were still the worst for me. NO salary cap, the richest team in the league and we were still brutal because we had an owner who watched every penny. The cap is a harder era to manage imo, so that is why the Ballard years were the worst.

 

[mmalady]

"No. This is worse. Teams back in the day were mean at least when they lost. This group is horrible soft and seems to be holding Zero pride in wearing that jersey. These new management types bringing in all skill players (so to speak) are losers.

I'll agree bud that Ballard wad a darn nutbar. He was cheap and all the things you mentioned. Really what he done to the team was resented fully by the players and they tried hard to win and were loaded with character. This era we see players that would not help out a teammate if their life depended on it.

This team went to the playoffs 2 short years ago with some serious character guys riding shotgun in the lineup. Then for some reason these tough guys were eliminated from playing because they were losing a step and not skilled enough or good enough skaters. Them types simply should have been replaced with younger and better players that brought the same nasty qualities to the lineup. Good vision of what playing leaf hockey is supposed to look like has been lost somehow.

Its becoming a trademark soft team. The interference at the board level of this team is fully at fault. Its been treated as a corporation for 20 years now. Its every bit as bad as the Ballard years and there is no sign it will change.

Its much worse now bud and Ballard was not in any way representative of the pride the players had for wearing the crest. The players were better. Ballards horrible character should in no way be construed to reflect the team.

This ****show we have been watching is a team that looks down on fans. This is not tough as nails leaf hockey and there is no place for chi Ken sh! T players any place near the leafs. Unfortunately we are a scared,soft, repulsive team with poor characters.

This is crap."

wafflewhipper sums it up best for me....

 

[The CyNick]

Who can I contact about starting a thread for people over 80? Sick of these young whipper snappers in their 60s talking nonsense.

 

[RLF]

"No. This is worse. Teams back in the day were mean at least when they lost. This group is horrible soft and seems to be holding Zero pride in wearing that jersey. These new management types bringing in all skill players (so to speak) are losers.

I'll agree bud that Ballard wad a darn nutbar. He was cheap and all the things you mentioned. Really what he done to the team was resented fully by the players and they tried hard to win and were loaded with character. This era we see players that would not help out a teammate if their life depended on it.

This team went to the playoffs 2 short years ago with some serious character guys riding shotgun in the lineup. Then for some reason these tough guys were eliminated from playing because they were losing a step and not skilled enough or good enough skaters. Them types simply should have been replaced with younger and better players that brought the same nasty qualities to the lineup. Good vision of what playing leaf hockey is supposed to look like has been lost somehow.

Its becoming a trademark soft team. The interference at the board level of this team is fully at fault. Its been treated as a corporation for 20 years now. Its every bit as bad as the Ballard years and there is no sign it will change.

Its much worse now bud and Ballard was not in any way representative of the pride the players had for wearing the crest. The players were better. Ballards horrible character should in no way be construed to reflect the team.

This ****show we have been watching is a team that looks down on fans. This is not tough as nails leaf hockey and there is no place for chi Ken sh! T players any place near the leafs. Unfortunately we are a scared,soft, repulsive team with poor characters.

This is crap."

wafflewhipper sums it up best for me....

See, I don't disagree with much of what you are saying, but there is a change in a lot of players attitudes now, not just those that play on the Leafs. Many players are cash first, hockey second. The league as a whole pays for "skill" higher than two way play (Toews and exception really).

This management has made mistakes in the way they built the team, no doubt. They haven't held back on purpose though. They have spent to the cap, they paid to get UFA's. Mistakes for sure, but Ballard had the ability to try and buy a winner if he wanted to, but refused in order to line his pockets more. He had the ability to build a good team and wouldn't. Once he was gone, the Leafs were competitive right up until the cap era. Sorry, Ballard was still worse to me.

 

[Leafspoison*]

I don't know how to do it, but I think it would be cool if someone could post a picture of Ballard and Ebenizer Scrooge side by side? There is one pic of Scrooge in particular that always reminds me of Ballard. We could have some fun captioning that.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

During the Stavro, Pension Plan years and pre cap the organization refused to spend with the Rangers, Wings and Flyers when top players became available. Always citing a internal budget. Some teams were millions ahead of the Leafs in spending. Didn't flex financial muscle much at all.

Yeah I remember that. The media as much as we despise them at times,always informed everyone the extent of the leafs profits every year. They were profiting almost a hundred million and had a budget that superceded spending to win a cup.

This is true stuff. ******** when you think of it. That was what the teachers pension plan puppeteers encased us with. Private ownership would be a colossal win for us.

 

[Erdinger]

Yeah I remember that. The media as much as we despise them at times,always informed everyone the extent of the leafs profits every year. They were profiting almost a hundred million and had a budget that superceded spending to win a cup.

This is true stuff. ******** when you think of it. That was what the teachers pension plan puppeteers encased us with. Private ownership would be a colossal win for us.

They were fast tracking paying off the ACC at the time. Yes it was ********.

 

[garce]

Yeah I remember that. The media as much as we despise them at times,always informed everyone the extent of the leafs profits every year. They were profiting almost a hundred million and had a budget that superceded spending to win a cup.

This is true stuff. ******** when you think of it. That was what the teachers pension plan puppeteers encased us with. Private ownership would be a colossal win for us.

The Leafs should have been the Yankees and bought Edmonton to bring Gretzky, not like Pocklington
didn't have a price.not to mention Messier, Shanahan, Blake, Chelios and on and on. Wings get all kinds of deserved credit for their development but Illitch spent crazy money to win pre cap.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

The Leafs should have been the Yankees and bought Edmonton to bring Gretzky, not like Pocklington
didn't have a price.not to mention Messier, Shanahan, Blake, Chelios and on and on. Wings get all kinds of deserved credit for their development but Illitch spent crazy money to win pre cap.

Pizza man would man up with whatever resources that wad needed. That's why they were so loyal to him back then as players too. The leafs are the big lie.

 

[tans66]

48 here.

Seen Keon to Bozak. This team is in my humble opinion the worst. No heart. No passion. No team toughness. Non- likable.
Can you see this team up against the mid 70's Flyers. We had quite the battles back then.
Just tied a 1985 record of 9th straight loss. Give me Vaive and Leeman. 50 goals each.
Who could play in Pat Burns's team??
How about Quinns?? Polak perhaps.
Resurrect Harold, Conn, Punch to clean house before deadline. Then rest them back in peace again. They would know what to do with these prima donnas. Bash Harold all you like, you wouldn't have these contracts to deal with. Players would have been shipped out long ago. Can you imagine Dion arriving in a Bently in designer suits during their tenure. lol yeah right.
How may records of 80's failures does it take to make the non believers believe this is the worst team yet??
Not going to argue ownership, but team wise, this is the worst. The core has to go.

 

[ANDI P IS CUTE]

surprised to see the positive response to this thread; thanks guys.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Hopefully the mods will sticky this? I feel most on this board are in the 15-30 age range. Let us "senior" leaf fans over 40 years old share our "wisdom" on the leafs- past, present and future. I miss the 92-93, 93-94 teams as well as the 2000-2004 teams.

Besides the Gilmour Gretzky high stick incident and some close calls in the early 2000's I think we had our best chance in 2003-04 when we had Leetch and Mogilny and Francis and Sundin and McCabe and Kaberle and Roberts and Tucker and Corson and Neiuwendyk and Nolan and Belfour etc etc... now THOSE were some warriors. Intensity personified and clutch players. Lots of HOF's on that team.

I'm 42 btw.

Today's team has to be imho the worst core of players ever. The least dedicated; the least likeable group ever.

I thought our 2 best teams to win it all were the 93 Gilmour team, probably should have won the cup infact. And the 2001 team where we looked like we were finally going to get by NJ until Domi elbowed Niedermayer, and this was all NJ needed to motivated themselves to beat us. Those were the best Leafs teams I saw.

 

[colchar]

I'm 42 and the biggest difference these days is social media, on demand content and forums like these. Can you imagine if those existed during Ballard's days. Him running Punch Imlach out of town, trading Lanny MacDonald cause he didn't like Sittler

Or talking about our bad drafting. The 1989 draft we had 3 1st rounders 1,12,21


3rd - Scott Thornton
12 - Rob Pearson
21 - Steve Bancroft.

Perhaps the worst part of that is that Adam Foote was taken one spot after Bancroft. That was also Lidstrom, Federov, and Bure's draft year.