Thread for Leaf Fans OVER 40 ONLY

[ANDI P IS CUTE]

Hopefully the mods will sticky this? I feel most on this board are in the 15-30 age range. Let us "senior" leaf fans over 40 years old share our "wisdom" on the leafs- past, present and future. I miss the 92-93, 93-94 teams as well as the 2000-2004 teams.

Besides the Gilmour Gretzky high stick incident and some close calls in the early 2000's I think we had our best chance in 2003-04 when we had Leetch and Mogilny and Francis and Sundin and McCabe and Kaberle and Roberts and Tucker and Corson and Neiuwendyk and Nolan and Belfour etc etc... now THOSE were some warriors. Intensity personified and clutch players. Lots of HOF's on that team.

I'm 42 btw.

Today's team has to be imho the worst core of players ever. The least dedicated; the least likeable group ever.

Click to read more...

 

[ANDI P IS CUTE]

ETA- We had Bob Cole still in his prime calling games and of course his side kick Harry Neale. And Joe Bowen and Neale on the radio. Miss those days. We had it good in the early 90's and early 2000's. My fav. video (VHS tape of course) was "The Passion Returns" about the leafs playoff run in 1992-93. You can watch it on youtube in parts.

 

[hockeystick89]

Hopefully the mods will sticky this? I feel most on this board are in the 15-30 age range. Let us "senior" leaf fans over 40 years old share our "wisdom" on the leafs- past, present and future. I miss the 92-93, 93-94 teams as well as the 2000-2004 teams.

Besides the Gilmour Gretzky high stick incident and some close calls in the early 2000's I think we had our best chance in 2003-04 when we had Leetch and Mogilny and Francis and Sundin and McCabe and Kaberle and Roberts and Tucker and Corson and Neiuwendyk and Nolan and Belfour etc etc... now THOSE were some warriors. Intensity personified and clutch players. Lots of HOF's on that team.

I'm 42 btw.

Today's team has to be imho the worst core of players ever. The least dedicated; the least likeable group ever.

Tomas Kaberle, noted warrior.

 

[HockeyNightInBelfast]

yes agreed.

I'm not gonna get into slagging specific player or whatever, but here's my basic take on it.

There have been some good years - the run in '93 when Dougie was a fixture & the Quinn years at the start of the Millennium.

JFJ wanted to do the re-build by all accounts but wasn't allowed.

Burkie thought the team was better than it was & "re-tooled" on-the-fly.

If Shanny's focus, w/ the likes of Mark Hunter & co now on board is to rebuild the old fashioned way through drafting etc, which means some years of mediocrity, I can hardly see him sticking around if MLSE say 'NO' to this plan, can you…?

Remember that Lieweke will be replaced & there will be yet another set of greasy meddling fingerprints on the oak & leather furnishings of the most dysfunctional boardroom in sporting history.

If a plan to veto any attempt by this management group led by Shanny to rebuild were to become apparent, I would seriously urge the true fans of this team to launch a very real protest & show some passion & push back at the way this team has been run & what it is actually delivering to fans.

Oh & people remember the Montreal Riots: a mass protest by fans showing their passion for the team. How about a group of fans here doing the same here to send a clear message to the suited cronies of Bay St that this team is not a plaything but a once proud franchise whose ship needs to be righted…!

Maybe they will listen if this is done en-masse & put to flame any idea that he fans of this team would not be prepared to accept a rebuild.

In the complications of the cap era this is the only way forward to right the wrongs where we have missed the boat in the past.

 

[eddieO]

I'm 34, so sorry for crashing this party. Maybe I can make a claim to this thread as I was an ice cream seller at Maple Leaf Gardens from age 13-17, so I got to see all of the games.

I think this thread is a really good idea, only because history repeats itself.

It's funny, this really does remind me of the Ballard era. The team was constantly spinning around in mediocrity, we'd trade our picks away for older has-beens and the only bright spot was that young kid, Clark. And god, did he do well for us. If we had just one player with a quarter of his heart now, wow.

My biggest fear is that history repeats, and MLSE doesn't allow a true rebuild to happen. It never has before. 92-93 was a product of Fletcher's big trade. Early 2000s was big spending in FA and of course, the Sundin trade. In this post-cap era, you HAVE to build through the draft. It kind of feels like we're like Kodak, a company that had a great time in the sun, and then couldn't adapt to the new age.

My biggest concern with the Shanahan hiring was it felt so much like what we used to do. Dryden, a figurehead, was hired. Thank god Pat Quinn was stubborn enough to make Dryden irrelevant. Burns was like that as well. We don't have that guy. Burkie was the closest thing to it.

Shanahan, I fear, is a political figurehead like those guys were. And unless he hires a GM that can really make him an irrelevant company spokesman and not a hockey decision-maker, the cycle may continue.

 

[eddieO]

Although just to add some positives:

Morgan Rielly could be a generational type Dman, he's been showing nice glimpses since Phaneuf has been out (coincidence?). He has Leetch-like plays that gets me excited about his future. If he can find a finish, he may turn out to be better than Kaberle in his prime.

Kadri has a ruggedness to him that can possibly turn into a Tucker/Roberts type player. I think he just needs to develop behind a real leader. Someone that can show him how it's done. Those playoff Leafs teams had that in abundance.

We always wanted a winger to play with Sundin. Imagine JVR and Sundin? I'd say Hoglund was a poor man's JVR and look how much Sundin did with him.

We have some good pieces. Excited about Nylander as well. Maybe all is not so dark.

 

[stymie]

I'm too old to riot.

 

[ITM]

Without question these are the darkest days I've experienced as that oh so odd Leafs fan...Never seen a Cup win (born years after) but was young enough/old enough to recall the 70s and 80s with some accuracy, and without deliberation, I can say, even with the talent we have, this organization makes the Ballard years smell like roses in comparison.

It's partly the overall gloom of life without CBC's HNIC, the toothless brand of patty cake hockey that essentially neuters what was once an actual identity (Grit.heart...ahem...truculence) that ran through Leafs' rosters good,better or Gilmour best. But mostly it's the SOULLESS thread from top to bottom and all things attached to the Toronto Maple Leafs that has never been so shamelessly apparent that disgusts me most...and I've stood up for several aspects of this club/management over the last couple of years.

But the entitlement of the players, the spoon full of bad medicine shoved in our faces from MLSE/Rogers etc...and those damn platinum corporate zombies taking up spots for genuine fans - I mean 70s/80s/90s golds standing, shouting fans...It's putrid.

And I've argued Nylander is a ray of hope too, maybe Reilly and maybe JVR...but it just feels so...weird...like...intentionally compromised with a disdain that sees only the need for profit and not product because profit is guaranteed independently in Toronto's hockey market with or without a product.

And in this climate, I fear for what this "club" is going to do to what it's always done to our gems...Exploit them, deform reasonable expectations, not supply appropriate support, decrease value, wait until fans "can't take it anymore", sell off once valuable assets for like or less value, slap some new paint on the same money pit and sell it to us all over again....

My sense of hope comes from the train wreck that is Strombonet and Co....If that's maintained without severe alteration, then we know as certain as we can...

The fix is in.

 

[HockeyNightInBelfast]

I'm too old to riot.

 

[Leafspoison*]

Without question these are the darkest days I've experienced as that oh so odd Leafs fan...Never seen a Cup win (born years after) but was young enough/old enough to recall the 70s and 80s with some accuracy, and without deliberation, I can say, even with the talent we have, this organization makes the Ballard years smell like roses in comparison.

It's partly the overall gloom of life without CBC's HNIC, the toothless brand of patty cake hockey that essentially neuters what was once an actual identity (Grit.heart...ahem...truculence) that ran through Leafs' rosters good,better or Gilmour best. But mostly it's the SOULLESS thread from top to bottom and all things attached to the Toronto Maple Leafs that has never been so shamelessly apparent that disgusts me most...and I've stood up for several aspects of this club/management over the last couple of years.

But the entitlement of the players, the spoon full of bad medicine shoved in our faces from MLSE/Rogers etc...and those damn platinum corporate zombies taking up spots for genuine fans - I mean 70s/80s/90s golds standing, shouting fans...It's putrid.

And I've argued Nylander is a ray of hope too, maybe Reilly and maybe JVR...but it just feels so...weird...like...intentionally compromised with a disdain that sees only the need for profit and not product because profit is guaranteed independently in Toronto's hockey market with or without a product.

And in this climate, I fear for what this "club" is going to do to what it's always done to our gems...Exploit them, deform reasonable expectations, not supply appropriate support, decrease value, wait until fans "can't take it anymore", sell off once valuable assets for like or less value, slap some new paint on the same money pit and sell it to us all over again....

My sense of hope comes from the train wreck that is Strombonet and Co....If that's maintained without severe alteration, then we know as certain as we can...

The fix is in.

Not even close. Perhaps you forgot that feeling of being a leaf fan during the ballard years. He was a tyrant, a racist, a wife beater, a fascist and a terrible owner. He treated his players like slaves and then sold them off to places they did not want to go or threatened them. He misstated guys like Sittler and arguably the greatest Leaf tender of all time in Palmeteer.

So please FFS, try not to confuse a losing streak to the Ballard days. When I hear people complaining about a few games losing streak, I laugh, especially when I hear someone post something so ridiculous as what you just posted.

And you want to talk about losing streaks? Go have a look at the 1984/85 season when we were 20-52-8.

So, if you are in fact, over 40, perhaps you should rethink what you just posted. There are also another 3 times when we finished with 52 and 57 points, but because of the playoff format back then, we got beat out in the first round....but made the playoffs.

I am going to be 52 in a few months, so I have seen it all.

 

[Leafspoison*]

Not even close. Perhaps you forgot that feeling of being a leaf fan during the ballard years. He was a tyrant, a racist, a wife beater, a fascist and a terrible owner. He treated his players like slaves and then sold them off to places they did not want to go or threatened them. He misstated guys like Sittler and arguably the greatest Leaf tender of all time in Palmeteer.

So please FFS, try not to confuse a losing streak to the Ballard days. When I hear people complaining about a few games losing streak, I laugh, especially when I hear someone post something so ridiculous as what you just posted.

And you want to talk about losing streaks? Go have a look at the 1984/85 season when we were 20-52-8.

So, if you are in fact, over 40, perhaps you should rethink what you just posted. There are also another 3 times when we finished with 52 and 57 points, but because of the playoff format back then, we got beat out in the first round....but made the playoffs.

I am going to be 52 in a few months, so I have seen it all.

And just to add to that since I can't edit right now, we had Dan Maloney as our coach, who had 4 30 plus goal scorers and 4 20 plus scorers. So we had 8 guys who scored 20 or more, with the exception of inhacak who scored 18 but was a perennial 20 goal man. Imagine if we had 4 30 goals scorers and 4 more 20 goal scorers and only get 48 points total in an 80 game season? That is what pure frustration feels like. Dan Maloney worst coach ever but was a Ballard Puppet.

 

[Mess]

My Maple Leafs have won 4 Stanley Cups already during my life span so I'm good. What more can one ask for really?

"It was the best of times, it was the worst of times, and I've seen it all in-between, sadly not a tale of two cities but just one.

Just one franchise, but its been a tale of two Arena's however with my most cherished memories residing in the one that the team no longer plays in and is now a grocery store. Where once Stanley Cups were raised in my memories now they raise the prices on Cheerios and Pop Tarts and people yell clean-up in aisle 5 instead of Go Leafs Go.

Today we watch in high definition big screen TVs where I witnessed success on a Black and White TV with rabbit ears. Oh my how the times have changed !!.

 

[LeafsNation149]

Yea im over 40 nice meeting you guys

 

[ULF_55]

I watched the last Cup, and watched while the game was joined already in progress.

http://www.thestar.com/sports/hocke...e_memories_hockey_night_in_canada_mudhar.html

One perfect example of how things have changed is that during the early days of TV, Hockey Night in Canada broadcasts didn’t start until the game was already in progress.

“It was a very unusual broadcast back then,†writes Rob Cowan. “The game would start at Maple Leaf Gardens at 8 p.m. but the television broadcast didn’t start until 8:30. So the game didn’t come on until approximately 15 minutes into the period. If you wanted to track the game, you would have to listen to the radio broadcast. I preferred to be surprised.â€

There’s no shortage of memories over 60 years. Depending on your era — Peter Puck, host Dave Hodge’s pen flip, Ron and Don, the Hot Stove, Howie Meeker — many personalities and great games have helped build a brand that has become synonymous with Canada.

I had to beg to stay up and watch the end of the 1st. period when I was a wee one. Would I today with this team?

Entering my 6th. decade, and while the team was crap in the 80's the players exhibited a desire to win, to earn their contract. You had empathy for them, enough has been written about Ballard and what went on in MLGs, but the players were likeable and they cared. Iafrate was a hoot. The ill conceived kiddy corps / core on defense. Ballard probably thought it was cheaper than getting real players.

The 80's were the decade of the Laffs and Dead Things. Couple buddies at work would bet which of their two favorite dogs would be better/worse.


How about this trade: Bernier Parent for Neely and Favell? Flyers 2 Cup wins, courtesy Leafs in '74 and '75.


Really, the team only needs about 2 leaders, then they'd have 2 leaders. Need someone on the ice the players can look up to and rally around. They have no leaders, one talent, and a pack of support players.

 

[Marshy]

Good idea for a thread.

I'm 45. I went to my first game in 1977 vs. the Pens. Dan Maloney got in 3 fights I think. Over the years I saw many games at MLG. I moved away from Toronto (to Ottawa) in 1989. Only have been to a handful of games at the ACC over the years. I've seen the Leafs more in Ottawa than in Toronto since 1993. Great games and atmosphere here as you all probably know. Everyone should do a road trip to Ottawa at least once. Maybe wait until both teams are a bit more relevant though LOL.

The passion I had for the Leafs in the 80s and 90s I hope it returns one day. As a younger man a loss on a Saturday night HNIC used to ruin my weekend. Now, the years of losing has dulled my senses. I can never bring myself to cheer for another team, been doing this too long. I care less and less now. I will always follow the Leafs but paying money to see this fiasco I'll leave that to those fans who haven't watched this team for 40 years -- mostly mismanaged and not worthy of having the following that they do.

 

[Teeder9]

The first playoff series I remember was the last time the Leafs and Habs met. Didn't go very well

 

[The Iceman]

In the 2002 playoffs against Ottawa my wife had just had our first child and had to go back to the hospital for day surgery in Burlington. We had tickets for that afternoon game. The nurse in the hospital said my wife was free to leave the hospital but needed an attendant to take her by wheelchair to our car.
I am watching my watch and doing the math. 10 minutes go by and still no attendant.
my wife says she is fine to walk herself but the nurse says no.
Then my chance.
The nurse leaves her station and we blow out of there. We had our 2 week old son in tow and off we went to Toronto sitting down almost at puck drop.
The young guy would nurse during intermissions and little did we know that there would be 5 of them as Gary Roberts would score in triple OT to save the day for one of my great Leaf moments.

 

[1995]

Rielly could be like Leetch, he was amazing. Someone else has a similar comparison too, Gardiner and Kaberle. Both a little soft at times smooth skaters and a really nice pass.

I'd like to see us keep our good young players for once, and start building through the draft now. I believe we need to start right away, this draft is special. Waiting for 2016 picks will be a mistake.

 

[Hounsy]

There was worse teams in the 80's than this but the playoffs where so much easier to make so it didn't seem as hopeless.

 

[Thissiteisgarbage]

47 here - can actually claim to have gone to a WHA Toronto Toros game back in the day, Leaf games and the old Marlies.

Current players I like:

Holland - if he can play a bit mean, he has some skills.
Reilly - like his game of late, needs to develop a slapshot though
Gardiner - much maligned, but I believe he'll get better as he matures
Percy, Granberg, Nylander - look to be good going forward

Guys who I would try and move:

Kadri - definitely has upside, but I just think the guy is dumb as a bag of rocks and will never be a "great" player
Kessel - lazy. Bad influence. Value will drop quickly as he loses a setep with age.
Phaneuf - Over rated. Poor man's McCabe, really without the good shot anymore. Not necessary if you plan to seriously rebuild/re-tool/whatever.
JVR - good player who can put the puck in the net, but someone who could actually go along way in trying to grab a legit #1C. Have to give to get.
Bozak - Never should have been where he is, really. Can play the game but give Holland his minutes/icetime and you'd have similar stats (at least).
Clarkson - The worst player I've seen since the 80's...I'm trying to recall anyone lacking skill as he does, but can't. Ken Baumgartner maybe? But the Bomber could actually skate pretty well and was a real heavyweight.
Bernier - Decent goalie but not needed for year with a true rebuild. Would have value in trade whereas Reimer will not.
Lupul - time is up on him. Good solid winger, but of no use to a rebuilding team.

 

[ULF_55]

47 here - can actually claim to have gone to a WHA Toronto Toros game back in the day, Leaf games and the old Marlies.

Current players I like:

Holland - if he can play a bit mean, he has some skills.
Reilly - like his game of late, needs to develop a slapshot though
Gardiner - much maligned, but I believe he'll get better as he matures
Percy, Granberg, Nylander - look to be good going forward

Guys who I would try and move:

Kadri - definitely has upside, but I just think the guy is dumb as a bag of rocks and will never be a "great" player
Kessel - lazy. Bad influence. Value will drop quickly as he loses a setep with age.
Phaneuf - Over rated. Poor man's McCabe, really without the good shot anymore. Not necessary if you plan to seriously rebuild/re-tool/whatever.
JVR - good player who can put the puck in the net, but someone who could actually go along way in trying to grab a legit #1C. Have to give to get.
Bozak - Never should have been where he is, really. Can play the game but give Holland his minutes/icetime and you'd have similar stats (at least).
Clarkson - The worst player I've seen since the 80's...I'm trying to recall anyone lacking skill as he does, but can't. Ken Baumgartner maybe? But the Bomber could actually skate pretty well and was a real heavyweight.
Bernier - Decent goalie but not needed for year with a true rebuild. Would have value in trade whereas Reimer will not.
Lupul - time is up on him. Good solid winger, but of no use to a rebuilding team.

We've seen Gardiner before, his name was Jim McKenny.
I was wondering if the Oilers would have some interest in Bernier? I'm not sold on moving Bernier, but they've talked about doing something to make their team better immediately.

 

[Mess]

There was worse teams in the 80's than this but the playoffs where so much easier to make so it didn't seem as hopeless.

In the 1980's Leaf fans never had to ever go more than 2 years in consecutive seasons without playoffs.

Even Ballard couldn't achieve that no matter how little he cared or tried to make things bad for Leaf Nation fans. Wendelmania swept through the hearts of Leaf fans blocking out the madness that surrounded the team off the ice.

But that degree of fan suffering is nothing to what we're enduring in the past 10 years now under this so called accelerated retooling on the fly nonsense.

 

[the squared circle]

I agree, great idea for a thread.
I still watch the Passion Returns, before every season.

 

[daveleaf]

46. I can still remember laying on the carpet watching B&W with the old man with Keon and a young Sittler. I remember the Leafs getting it handed to them against the Flyers, even as a young kid I thought they were a pretty good teams. Watching guys like Salming, Williams and McDonald. Man I miss those years. Wendell getting drafted, the talent the Leafs had in the 80's and just let slide away. Damphouse, Clark, Thomas, Courtnall, Iafrate......went on and on. Through all those years, regardless of who owned the team, there was a strong presence on those teams. Good leadership, players that cared. I'm not sure our version today has it.

I will go on a limb here and say I could handle a rebuild, 3-5 years to get this team and franchise straight. I think Shanahan will continue doing the right things. So many young posters critisize the guy but what the hell do you want him to do? Within a short period he brought in Hunter, Dubas, he will get the scouting done right and I wouldn't be surprised over the summer that Babcock comes in as a head coach and maybe assistant GM. Maybe we can get lucky in the draft and get a kid like Stromme or dare I say McDavid and get this franchise going again.

 

[daveleaf]

In the 1980's Leaf fans never had to ever go more than 2 years in consecutive seasons without playoffs.

Even Ballard couldn't achieve that no matter how little he cared or tried to make things bad for Leaf Nation fans. Wendelmania swept through the hearts of Leaf fans blocking out the madness that surrounded the team off the ice.

But that degree of fan suffering is nothing to what we're enduring in the past 10 years now under this so called accelerated retooling on the fly nonsense.

Tell me about it.