Salary Cap: This Thread will Self-Destruct in 10 Kessel Posts (Part X)

[penguins2946*]

the reason tor doesn't have a ton of leverage is that there are few team with the motive, means and opportunity (need, assets and cap space) to pull it off. pittsburgh is certainly one of them. And they are not on his no trade list to boot.

that's just speculation, bro!!!!!!! You don't know that!!!

 

[Fordy]

All of this is ****ing speculation. We're speculating that GMJR would be interested in moving Pouliot/Kapanen and another 1st. We're speculating that Pittsburgh would be the only team on Kessel's NTC that is seriously interested. We're speculating that GMJR would want such a huge cap hit on the books. What isn't speculation at this point?

What do you think this thread is for?

 

[Rectify]

Uh no it's not. That is the list of team's Phil said he'd be cool with being traded to. Sure it's possible he can change his list or accept a trade to any other team but it's far more likely he is traded to a team on that list or a revised 8 team list than not.

I was referencing HIS list of teams and destinations, not Kessel's. Obviously the 8 team list is not speculation. He can still be traded to a team outside his list, and Toronto can also keep him.

Do the Pens have a shot at him? Hopefully. But to speculate varying degrees of possible destinations based on looking at payroll is way off base. Considering teams have until next season to get under the cap, a lot can change in a short amount of time.

 

[thecore]

Honestly, I think one of the bigger factors that could prevent Kessel being traded here is our uncertain ownership. Adding that type of long term financial commitment would definitely require ownership sign off, and would potential limit buyers that might want to limit the Pens' cap.

I see it as the biggest reason it won't happen (at least until ownership is resolved).

 

[Ugene Magic]

Kessel is Santa Clause...

 

[Jacob]

It's in his contract to provide a list of 8 teams so he did. I'm sure Toronto will listen to offers from all teams, and if one isn't on the list, they will probably request Kessel waive his NTC, but he doesn't have to. And there's a reason players request NTCs, NMCs or LMCs, and it's so they aren't Shanghai'd to Miami or Phoenix or Edmonton.

 

[BigBenSF*]

Then why post on this message board at all then?

Then no one should be writing other people's opinions off as speculation. Saying that Kessel will probably waive to the team that gives the Leafs the best offer isn't preposterous. Neither is RP's list, but it has its flaws. You could easily write the Pens off as in on Kessel based on Mackey's comments, or the sheer fact that Pittsburgh would be tying up nearly half of a $70 million cap on five players. I just don't think it will happen and HF Pens fans shouldn't be that pissed off if it doesn't.

 

[penguins2946*]

I was referencing HIS list of teams and destinations, not Kessel's. Obviously the 8 team list is not speculation. He can still be traded to a team outside his list, and Toronto can also keep him.

Do the Pens have a shot at him? Hopefully. But to speculate varying degrees of possible destinations based on looking at payroll is way off base. Considering teams have until next season to get under the cap, a lot can change in a short amount of time.

How is that way off base? You have to be under the salary cap. Teams pressed up against the salary cap can't afford his $8 million. That's using ****ing logic.

Then no one should be writing other people's opinions off as speculation. Saying that Kessel will probably waive to the team that gives the Leafs the best offer isn't preposterous. Neither is RP's list, but it has its flaws. You could easily write the Pens off as in on Kessel based on Mackey's comments, or the sheer fact that Pittsburgh would be tying up nearly half of a $70 million cap on five players. I just don't think it will happen and HF Pens fans shouldn't be that pissed off if it doesn't.

And Mackey's comments were just speculation on his part and had absolutely no logical foundation in reality. His entire reasoning for us not wanting Kessel was a non sequitur based on Crosby's use last year.

 

[Winger for Hire]

The ownership "issue" has no bearing on this.

 

[Rectify]

1. Kessel is available
2. He listed the Pens as a team he would go to
3. The Pens need a Top 6 wing
4. Kessel is a Top 6 wing
5. Kessel carries an $8m cap hit
6. The Pens can afford an $8m
7. The Pens have the assets to trade for Kessel (and don't have to include DP or Maatta)
8. Toronto needs goalie prospects
9. The Pens have 2 legit goalie prospects
10. Kessel is a ******* force on the ice

I agree with everything except the bold. I don't think Toronto bites unless one of them is included, but that's just me. The verdict on Murray and Jarry are still at least 2-3 years away at this point, and Bernier is more than capable for the long haul.

 

[Slaaapshuter]

Does anyone really believe that Toronto didn't first ask Kessel to fully waiver his NTC before getting the list of 8 teams? Sure he could change his mind, but I doubt they would come to him and be like, "We have a deal with <1 of the listed 8> and a deal from <a team not on the list>. The deal from <team not on the list> is better. Can you please accept a trade to that team instead of the other team?" and Phil would suddenly agree to go to Nashville, SJ, whoever.

Plus (again speculation), it's likely a guy in Kessels age (not that he is old, but likely won't be involved in another trade) is looking for a chance at the cup. Being involved in a trade potentially gutting the team he's going to is not really in his interest I would think.

 

[SprootsMasterFlex]

 

[Winger for Hire]

Then no one should be writing other people's opinions off as speculation. Saying that Kessel will probably waive to the team that gives the Leafs the best offer isn't preposterous. Neither is RP's list, but it has its flaws. You could easily write the Pens off as in on Kessel based on Mackey's comments, or the sheer fact that Pittsburgh would be tying up nearly half of a $70 million cap on five players. I just don't think it will happen and HF Pens fans shouldn't be that pissed off if it doesn't.

Then why didn't he fully waive his NTC to make it easier for the Leafs to deal him?

Could it be because it wants to have control on were he goes.

He could have gave them a list of 5, 6, 10, 20 teams he'd waive the NTC for, but he gave them 8. He's not going to waive unless none of the 8 want to trade for him.

 

[Rectify]

How is that way off base? You have to be under the salary cap. Teams pressed up against the salary cap can't afford his $8 million. That's using ****ing logic.

You aren't thinking of it logically though, that's the problem. It's obvious to rule out the Chicago's and the Flyer's of the world. But 20ish teams still remain a viable destination if they can maneuver some contracts before the season.

Again, Kessel can waive his NTC to get traded anywhere, if he really wants to get moved.

 

[Riptide]

I would scoff at a Wiercioch + Puempel for Sutter trade if I were a Sens fan but Sutter's value in GM circles is pretty large (a lot larger than he's actually worth, IMO). If Sutter was actually valued higher than our 2015 first like Edmonton reportedly did, a trade like this isn't totally crazy. Wiercioch was being shopped around pretty hard during the deadline (and probably for cheap) and I can see Ottawa management seeing MP as expendable because of the good play of their other young guys. Plus Wiercioch makes like 2.1 so the contracts almost balance out.

I can see a Legwand trade playing out, but not in a deal like this. Any time a trade gets higher than like six pieces, though, the realism goes out the window. If we want a bottom six player from Ottawa, we should pick up Erik Condra in UFA.

I don't want a bottom 6 player from Ottawa, or Greening specifically. But if you're looking to acquire someone like PW and MP and not actually looking to give up all that much, you're going ot have to take something back you don't want. And that something is going to be Greening or Legwand.

 

[thecore]

The ownership "issue" has no bearing on this.

How do you figure? Contracts are looked at as assets on a balance sheet during ownership negotiations, just like anything else.

 

[penguins2946*]

You aren't thinking of it logically though, that's the problem. It's obvious to rule out the Chicago's and the Flyer's of the world. But 20ish teams still remain a viable destination if they can maneuver some contracts before the season.

That is all I'm ruling out based on the cap. I'm ruling out other teams because they have absolutely no need for Kessel and they have other holes they need to fill. Teams like Ottawa (that's the big one that sticks out) can't afford Kessel because they have a ton of RFAs they need to re-sign and they already have 2 top-6 RWers. How is it inaccurate to say they wouldn't be interested?

The ownership situation isn't relevant because the actual rich guy in Burkle isn't selling, only Lemieux is.

 

[Penguinzilla*]

Shero gonna get him

 

[BigBenSF*]

How is that way off base? You have to be under the salary cap. Teams pressed up against the salary cap can't afford his $8 million. That's using ****ing logic.



And Mackey's comments were just speculation on his part and had absolutely no logical foundation in reality. His entire reasoning for us not wanting Kessel was a non sequitur based on Crosby's use last year.

Except that Mackey has a lot more insider information on the Penguins than any of us do and might have tipped off if the Pens were interested in Kessel. It's actually pretty surprising that the Trib isn't doing a lot of hype into a Kessel trade considering the amount of buzz they had for a potential Letang trade 2 years ago. Maybe just the Rossi effect.

Re: Winger For Hire; I don't exactly know how NTCs specifically work, but Kessel's contract allows for him to submit a list of eight teams that he can accept a trade to. He did this during last offseason, before another trainwreck season where he was thrown under the bus by the media. Now, with the rebuild, I think if Toronto tells him "You're going to X", he will go. But that is absolutely speculation by me.

 

[Ugene Magic]

Interesting..

So it's a reuniting of the 3rd line, Staal, Kennedy and Cooke.

Off-season.

 

[BigBenSF*]

I don't want a bottom 6 player from Ottawa, or Greening specifically. But if you're looking to acquire someone like PW and MP and not actually looking to give up all that much, you're going ot have to take something back you don't want. And that something is going to be Greening or Legwand.

You're probably right on this one, especially given the Murray comments today. I think Greening wouldn't be a great player, but I'd be willing to take him on for guys like MP and PW for sure.

 

[penguins2946*]

Except that Mackey has a lot more insider information on the Penguins than any of us do and might have tipped off if the Pens were interested in Kessel. It's actually pretty surprising that the Trib isn't doing a lot of hype into a Kessel trade considering the amount of buzz they had for a potential Letang trade 2 years ago. Maybe just the Rossi effect.

Ha

Hahaha

HAHAHAHAHAHA

I'm willing to bet Mackey's inside information is about on par with our inside information.

 

[Rectify]

That is all I'm ruling out based on the cap. I'm ruling out other teams because they have absolutely no need for Kessel and they have other holes they need to fill. Teams like Ottawa (that's the big one that sticks out) can't afford Kessel because they have a ton of RFAs they need to re-sign and they already have 2 top-6 RWers. How is it inaccurate to say they wouldn't be interested?

The ownership situation isn't relevant because the actual rich guy in Burkle isn't selling, only Lemieux is.

Because you aren't considering what they would be willing to do to land a player of Kessel's caliber. Who knows how much other teams value the possibility of adding one of the best wingers in the game, let alone how Kessel feels about the ML as a whole. Again, they don't have to be cap compliant until next season.

This board reacts way too fast to the "THIS IS A NO BRAINER, IT MAKES TOO MUCH SENSE" instead of considering all the options, and realizing other teams have better prospects and more to give.

 

[penguins2946*]

Because you aren't considering what they would be willing to do to land a player of Kessel's caliber. Who knows how much other teams value the possibility of adding one of the best wingers in the game, let alone how Kessel feels about the ML as a whole.

Idk, maybe it's just too much to assume teams trade based on need and not adding to an area that doesn't need upgraded just for laughs. I wonder where I could have gotten that crazy idea...

This board reacts way too fast to the "THIS IS A NO BRAINER, IT MAKES TOO MUCH SENSE" instead of considering all the options, and realizing other teams have better prospects and more to give.

You just keep repeating this while you're ignoring the NTC issue. Isn't it major speculation on your part that they have better prospects and more to give? What if they're not willing to give a lot of those prospects.

 

[DesertPenguin]

Interesting..

So it's a reuniting of the 3rd line, Staal, Kennedy and Cooke.

Off-season.

I'd take Cookie back if we let Downie walk...