Speculation: This is now the trade thread.
- Thread starter Sheng Peng
- Start date
GoldenKnights2017
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Golden Knights have been identified as a serious in Senators Captain Erik Karlsson. Here's our story with the details.
Golden Knights Emerge As A Serious Contender For Erik Karlsson
Golden Knights Emerge As A Serious Contender For Erik Karlsson
Agent Zub
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- Jan 2, 2015
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I get what you're saying. But time and time again its shown that quantity for quality deals always favour the team that gets the quality. None of those "5 pieces" are sure things. As rosy as it looks right now for them, they most likely don't become stars, maybe they become solid contributors, but its also likely they dont get even get there. We've been through enough prospects that looked great but ultimately didn't cut it. Good prospects are easy to come by. You have a chance every June to draft them. You almost never have a chance to get a 27 year old generational talent. Like I'm telling you, it's very likely you never have a player wear Vegas jersey who would be as good as Karlsson.
Not to mention that having a talent like Karlsson will attract other talent. If Vegas makes a bid for Tavares it would be alot more convincing for him to join if Karlsson is there to welcome him.
Hal 9000
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- Nov 19, 2016
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The prospects are always an unknown entity, and therefore considered valuable, usually overvalued. I'd give a fair bit to get Karlsson, but not at the expense of anyone on the top 2 lines plus Tuch. A couple draft picks and/or prospects otherwise, pass.
Pirate Deadpool
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LadyStanley
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Pirate Deadpool
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Has no one watched EK65 play this year? It's insane to trade for a guy that looks downright awful at the moment. I hope he recovers because he's a fun player to watch, but his great days could be gone forever. If he needed more time to recover, then he shouldn't be playing until he feels good again. Even he said himself that there's a different feeling in his foot and will never go away, but he sounded like he could get used to it. But watching him play says otherwise. Giving up the assets required to get him is too risky. For what the asking price is, it better be a sure thing.
Gee I don't know, are the Lightning and Predators idiots run by bad management who can't scout other players?
Pirate Deadpool
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The lightning won't deal for EK, but I could see the preds trying hard. David Poile is overrated. Stevie Y isnt going to give up serg or point plus whatever else the sens want.
LadyStanley
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Hal 9000
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LadyStanley
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If Vegas has proven anything is that a team full of decent to good pieces can be as good or better than one with elite pieces but not as much depth.
Theodore is already a strong commodity if he plateaus at this level. Sure. Brannstrom, Suzuki, and two first rounders worth of prospects could all bust. Or they could all be solid contributors or they could all be stars. Either way, when a team has less than a handful of promising prospects, emptying the pipeline is a very risky play. Can we luck out and build a dynasty out of second to 7th rounders? Yeah, but almost definitely not. And Karlsson wants close to the league maximum. Corey Perry is getting paid 9 million a year for second line numbers with third line effort. If we give Karlsson close to or at league maximum I expect Norris contending years every goddamn year. Or at least 5. Your expectation that he can certainly return to such a level is purely speculative. It's just as likely that he can't rehab his injury and will be just a run of the mill star OFD instead of a game breaker. Giving him 10+ million to not be worth two players' worth of skill is a risky play.
CupInSIX
My cap runneth over
Bob McKenzie is implying the Lightning and Predators are trying to get Erik Karlsson with 'magic beans' instead of dangling their best assets on the TSN pre-deadline show (yes they have a deadline eve show).
Pierre Lebrun reiterated they still believe Ottawa is trying to push Ryan's full contract into the deal as well.
It's possible this deal may get done with 2 key pieces and a plethora of conditional picks (my speculation)
Pierre Lebrun reiterated they still believe Ottawa is trying to push Ryan's full contract into the deal as well.
It's possible this deal may get done with 2 key pieces and a plethora of conditional picks (my speculation)
Well he’s not wrong. Karlsson has basically been a Brent Burns this year instead of the the guy that ends his career with a legacy like Lindstrom and Borque.
He just isn’t even trying...which I understand because the team is a dumpster fire. But, it’s primarily his skating that is the worry.
Healthy Karlsson is maybe the best package of agility / acceleration / speed in a single player in all of time (pre-Cooke and last seasons foot surgery) Just watch that highlight video. Inhuman acceleration.
Without his skating...he’s just Brent Burns. A pure offense / powerplay specialist who can’t play defense.
With his skating, he’s an automatic breakout, and a A level defender. People really hate on his defensive game, but when he is on, he is an elite defender. He can gamble all he wants because he can catch any player in the league, he is adept at creating turnovers with his skating / stick skills, and he is surprisingly wiry strong which helps him in puck battles.
Playing him with Schmidt on his other side is right around the best players he’s ever had on his pair. The guy has played with Filip Kuba and Marc Methot all his pro career. I’d say this year’s Schmidt is better than both of those guys. McNabb would look very good there too if you wanted to keep Schmidt - Miller, which would be a great second pair and feast on weaker match-ups offensively.
The foot is a major, major concern though if signing him to a 12x7 year contract. I would have the team doctors evaluate the hell out of him to see if he could ever get back to his post-Cooke 90% level or so.
I’m conflicted. You are either getting the #3 player in the league, or getting a decent #1 d-man who needs to be sheltered defensively. I am also really hesitant to give up Glass. I think he will at least be a superb 2C who is a coaches dream playing a 200 foot game. Suzuki, I have more worries about translating to the pro’s. He has great hockey sense, but I think he more realistically ends up on the wing due to an average defensive game and average size / strength.
He just isn’t even trying...which I understand because the team is a dumpster fire. But, it’s primarily his skating that is the worry.
Healthy Karlsson is maybe the best package of agility / acceleration / speed in a single player in all of time (pre-Cooke and last seasons foot surgery) Just watch that highlight video. Inhuman acceleration.
Without his skating...he’s just Brent Burns. A pure offense / powerplay specialist who can’t play defense.
With his skating, he’s an automatic breakout, and a A level defender. People really hate on his defensive game, but when he is on, he is an elite defender. He can gamble all he wants because he can catch any player in the league, he is adept at creating turnovers with his skating / stick skills, and he is surprisingly wiry strong which helps him in puck battles.
Playing him with Schmidt on his other side is right around the best players he’s ever had on his pair. The guy has played with Filip Kuba and Marc Methot all his pro career. I’d say this year’s Schmidt is better than both of those guys. McNabb would look very good there too if you wanted to keep Schmidt - Miller, which would be a great second pair and feast on weaker match-ups offensively.
The foot is a major, major concern though if signing him to a 12x7 year contract. I would have the team doctors evaluate the hell out of him to see if he could ever get back to his post-Cooke 90% level or so.
I’m conflicted. You are either getting the #3 player in the league, or getting a decent #1 d-man who needs to be sheltered defensively. I am also really hesitant to give up Glass. I think he will at least be a superb 2C who is a coaches dream playing a 200 foot game. Suzuki, I have more worries about translating to the pro’s. He has great hockey sense, but I think he more realistically ends up on the wing due to an average defensive game and average size / strength.
Hal 9000
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If his foot is buggered, I cant see him asking for $12mil. McPhee will have this year and likely part of next to make that determination.
That’s an automatic no from Ottawa. Dorion and Melnyk would be publicly lynched for letting a superstar go for that.
He will get an AAV of around 12. I would bet on it. That’s the equivalent of the 10.5 Kane, Toews, Kopitar got with a lower cap. It’s supposed to go up to 80 mil next year.
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Hal 9000
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hangman005
Mark Stones Spleen
It’s been rumored Ottawa might retain up to 25%.
5.4 AAV is really not that bad at all for Ryan. Even with his recent woes and injury trouble, he would get 5 if he was a free agent right now.
A healthy Ryan actually had a great playoffs last year. He can play both wings, and up and down the lineup.
I don’t want him or like Ryan’s game, but with retention, he’s really not a huge negative people think he is. His term is bad, which will probably cost Ottawa a 2nd and maybe a middling prospect, but it not adversely effect Karlsson’s value that much.
The Duck Knight
Henry, you're our only hope!
Bobby Ryan at 25% retention is a better deal than Neal at 7x7 which he could very well get this summer. As long as Bobby is healthy he's worth 5m per.
Hal 9000
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I'd take Neal 10 times out of 10 before taking Bobby Ryan.
The Duck Knight
Henry, you're our only hope!
If they're making equal money sure mainly because of Bobby's injury problems. If they're both fully healthy they're both slow floaters that will put up points and give you little to nothing on the defensive side of the puck. If Neal is insistent on anything over 6x6 this summer and you can get Bobby at 5.4m to lower the cost of EK I'll take it all day.
CupInSIX
My cap runneth over
Every time I look at offers it's imbalanced one way or the other because Vegas has so relatively few significant prospects. There's no way any team should be giving up a talent like Suzuki if they're in a package based around Shea Theodore. Not for a guy with less than 2 years term. It should be structured with a centerpiece, then other important assets, then picks to balance it out. I know Ottawa wants the moon, but they have the moon and they're trading it.
And you could say 'well what if you knew for sure Karlsson would re-sign July 1st'. Well one thing we do know is he probably won't sign for a penny less than 12m at 7 years. What if he has a sloppy playoff run just like the regular season? Probably not so eager to give him that NMC contract.
When I think about it, it's either a (high) rental price, or walk away.
And you could say 'well what if you knew for sure Karlsson would re-sign July 1st'. Well one thing we do know is he probably won't sign for a penny less than 12m at 7 years. What if he has a sloppy playoff run just like the regular season? Probably not so eager to give him that NMC contract.
When I think about it, it's either a (high) rental price, or walk away.
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