Post-Game Talk: This is hockey

[WingedWheel1987]

The 4th line has been very strong. The only line that really needs to be broken up is the Helm line as they have been largely invisible. Nestrasil probably goes down once Pavs is back. The forwards overall seems pretty strong, it's the defense that is seriously letting us down when it comes to point production in general and the power play in particular.

I personally don't expect the defense to contribute much on offense. I am just hoping it does a good job of preventing goals against. Smith and Kronwall are the Wings only offensively inclined defenseman. Tough to get much production from your blue line when 2/3 of it aren't suited for generating offense.

 

[Actual Thought*]

He was trying to do the YMCA but his teammates ****ed him over.

Bout fell outta my chair!

 

[14ari13]

Through 5 games our goaltending has been very strong. If we are to have a better season than the last one, the goaltending is the key IMO.
Defence and offense will be fine.
Now I do not remember, but were our both ST units bad last season?

 

[Pavels Dog]

The 4th line has been very strong. The only line that really needs to be broken up is the Helm line as they have been largely invisible. Nestrasil probably goes down once Pavs is back. The forwards overall seems pretty strong, it's the defense that is seriously letting us down when it comes to point production in general and the power play in particular.

I'm thinking Jurco is sent down. Things like Jurco sitting at the end of games while Nestrasil is playing points to that. That is assuming Holland refuses to waive Cleary.
It would be a shame to break up the kid line, sure, but I think either Nyquist or Nestrasil could take Jurco's place there and still make it a good 3rd line.

 

[14ari13]

I am not sure if the GW goal was soft. The goalie was moving right to left and then it went in. He was not quick enough. Maybe it was a semi soft. But the goalies made over 60 saves so something had to end up in the net.
I think it was a smart plaly by Ericsson and Kronwall. They realised the SOs were close so Ericsson took a bit risky pass. Reimer was probably thinking about the SOs and therefore not focused on the play. Very smart play by Ericsson and Kronwall.

 

[InjuredChoker]

Through 5 games our goaltending has been very strong. If we are to have a better season than the last one, the goaltending is the key IMO.
Defence and offense will be fine.
Now I do not remember, but were our both ST units bad last season?

PK was very good until playoffs. PP was average until playoffs were it was bad.

 

[Flowah]

I'm thinking Jurco is sent down. Things like Jurco sitting at the end of games while Nestrasil is playing points to that. That is assuming Holland refuses to waive Cleary.
It would be a shame to break up the kid line, sure, but I think either Nyquist or Nestrasil could take Jurco's place there and still make it a good 3rd line.

That is incredible to me. How quickly Nesty earned Babcock's trust to take those late shifts. He hasn't made me regret that decision, but I mean, last year would that have been the case? It's only been 5 games and Nestrasil already seems to have Bab's trust.

He's a good player though and I hope we find a way to keep him in the lineup. He's earned it man.

 

[Run the Jewels]

I'm thinking Jurco is sent down. Things like Jurco sitting at the end of games while Nestrasil is playing points to that. That is assuming Holland refuses to waive Cleary.
It would be a shame to break up the kid line, sure, but I think either Nyquist or Nestrasil could take Jurco's place there and still make it a good 3rd line.

It's possible. The Helm line is an all defense line as they have generated a grand total of 2 points. Nestrasil had a really nice blocked shot with just over 5:00 left in the second period last night. So it makes sense to have them out there late in a close game.

The one thing about that line is they seem to spend very little time in the offensive zone, much less generating scoring chances. What you can do is put Pav on that line and sit Weiss, then bump Abby down to replace Nesty. That gives you some speed with Helm, size/net presence with Abby, and a guy who can play puck possession in #13.

So something like:

Nyquist-Z-Mule
Helm-Pav-Abby
Tatar-Shehan-Jurco
Miller-Glendening-Andersson

That would greatly improve your one line that hasn't really spent much if any time in the offensive zone thus far.

 

[Run the Jewels]

Oh yeah, the last 6 or so minutes of that third period was LOUD. Leafs fans are allowed inside JLA anytime they want to come on down to Detroit. RESPECT!

 

[LeighDx59]

Can't be surprised. There are Toronto fans all over Windsor and the surrounding areas, so it would be expected for them to jump at the chance to see their favorite team in action.

Definitely not surprised, I mean any Toronto game ive went too was like that. Still don't like it lol usually the "Lets go Red Wings!" chants are as loud as the "Go Leafs Go" chants, but last night it didn't seem like it at all.

 

[Pavels Dog]

It's possible. The Helm line is an all defense line as they have generated a grand total of 2 points. Nestrasil had a really nice blocked shot with just over 5:00 left in the second period last night. So it makes sense to have them out there late in a close game.

The one thing about that line is they seem to spend very little time in the offensive zone, much less generating scoring chances. What you can do is put Pav on that line and sit Weiss, then bump Abby down to replace Nesty. That gives you some speed with Helm, size/net presence with Abby, and a guy who can play puck possession in #13.

So something like:

Nyquist-Z-Mule
Helm-Pav-Abby
Tatar-Shehan-Jurco
Miller-Glendening-Andersson

That would greatly improve your one line that hasn't really spent much if any time in the offensive zone thus far.

Not a fan of letting Pav center grinders and expect him to turn that into a scoring line. We may have to break up the kid line unless Holland shocks and waives Cleary. I would go with something like this:

Franzen-Z-Nyquist
Tatar-Dats-Helm
Nestrasil-Sheahan-Abdelkader
Miller-Glendening-Andersson

What you're losing in the kid line could be more than replaced if Tatar and Dats find some magic and give us a legit scoring line. The 3rd line could be a really tough one to play against and we keep the 1st and 4th lines intact.

 

[Flowah]

Not a fan of letting Pav center grinders and expect him to turn that into a scoring line. We may have to break up the kid line unless Holland shocks and waives Cleary. I would go with something like this:

Franzen-Z-Nyquist
Tatar-Dats-Helm
Nestrasil-Sheahan-Abdelkader
Miller-Glendening-Andersson

What you're losing in the kid line could be more than replaced if Tatar and Dats find some magic and give us a legit scoring line. The 3rd line could be a really tough one to play against and we keep the 1st and 4th lines intact.

Looks decent enough to me. I feel Sheahan is smart enough to play with whoever basically. And he doesn't play an overly complicated game where guys like Abby and Nesty couldn't keep up.

I'd almost want to see a Tats-Dats-Sheahan line which I feel could be incredible. But I like keeping Sheahan training in on center with his potential to be a real 2C in the future. His faceoffs need work and he could stand to learn how to create more offense. The defensive part he's got down pat. He always knows how to play it in the d-zone and he's never panicked.

 

[Run the Jewels]

Not a fan of letting Pav center grinders and expect him to turn that into a scoring line. We may have to break up the kid line unless Holland shocks and waives Cleary. I would go with something like this:

Franzen-Z-Nyquist
Tatar-Dats-Helm
Nestrasil-Sheahan-Abdelkader
Miller-Glendening-Andersson

What you're losing in the kid line could be more than replaced if Tatar and Dats find some magic and give us a legit scoring line. The 3rd line could be a really tough one to play against and we keep the 1st and 4th lines intact.

Just finished watching the Leafs game from last night and neither Nestrasil or Jurco got any ice time during OT. I saw Z-Nyquist, Z-Abby, Sheahan-Tatar, and Glendening-Anderssson (I think). So I don't buy this notion that Nestrasil is out there late or in key situations.

Pavs has been saddled with sub-standard linemates the past few seasons. At least a line with Helm and Abby gives him some guys who can generate some space for him. I was very skeptical when there was talk this summer of Helm being on a scoring line but based on what we've seen thus far I am willing to give it a go with Pav centering both him and Abby.

 

[Flowah]

Just finished watching the Leafs game from last night and neither Nestrasil or Jurco got any ice time during OT. I saw Z-Nyquist, Z-Abby, Sheahan-Tatar, and Glendening-Anderssson (I think). So I don't buy this notion that Nestrasil is out there late or in key situations.

Nestrasil replaced Jurco in latter part of the third period. In OT, people get squeezed out. You only need 2 forwards a line. So he may not be put out there on OT, but that's because he's not in the top8 of forwards for Babcocks. But he's there for regulation time in the third period.

 

[silkyjohnson50]

Helm-Datsyuk-Abdelkader?

Good lord. I like Helm and Abby together, but not with 13 or 40. I'd actually be fine with it with Nyquist or Franzen. I think 13 or 40 need and deserve more skill though.

I'd like the keep the Kid and 4th lines intact. That obviously leaves Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Nyquist, Franzen, Helm, and Abdelkader to make up 2 lines. Many options. Among them:

Zetterberg-Datsyuk-Abdelkader
Nyquist-Helm-Franzen

Zetterberg-Datsyuk-Franzen/Nyquist
Nyquist/Franzen-Helm-Abdelkader

Franzen-Zetterberg-Abdelkader
Helm-Datsyuk-Nyquist

 

[Winger98]

what a lot of these lines are telling me is that we need another scoring forward on top of Datsyuk. Maybe that's Aldredsson. Maybe that's Weiss. Maybe it's a kid. But we need someone because putting Datsyuk or Sheahan between a couple of grinders/big bodies and hoping for some puck luck isn't a scoring line. And Helm isn't a second line center.

I personally don't expect the defense to contribute much on offense. I am just hoping it does a good job of preventing goals against. Smith and Kronwall are the Wings only offensively inclined defenseman. Tough to get much production from your blue line when 2/3 of it aren't suited for generating offense.

yeah, the lack of offensive punch from the backline has stood out to me, too. And when we look at teams that are successful in the playoffs, all of them get a fair amount of offense from their blueline. People want to debate how good this team is or will be, they have to start with getting production from the backend.

 

[Flowah]

what a lot of these lines are telling me is that we need another scoring forward on top of Datsyuk. Maybe that's Aldredsson. Maybe that's Weiss. Maybe it's a kid.

My first thought is Pulkkinen or Mantha. Why did Mantha have to get injured. UGH.

I think Alfie is done and I have no idea how Weiss stays in the lineup when Datsyuk comes back in a few games and Franzen is definitely back soon as well. Seriously, you add Datsyuk and Franzen and who the hell does Weiss replace?

 

[Winger98]

My first thought is Pulkkinen or Mantha. Why did Mantha have to get injured. UGH.

I think Alfie is done and I have no idea how Weiss stays in the lineup when Datsyuk comes back in a few games and Franzen is definitely back soon as well. Seriously, you add Datsyuk and Franzen and who the hell does Weiss replace?

Sit one of Miller, Andersson, or Nestrasil. None of them are irreplaceable, and if we get Weiss going, he'll slot into the lineup a lot higher and allow someone like Helm or Abdelkader to be moved down to the fourth line.

of course, that depends on getting Weiss going...

 

[detredWINgs]

Bummed I missed this game. Anyone want to comment on how Dekeyser, Smith, and/or Quincey looked? It's only been 5 games, and I hate being a low-scoring team, but its pretty impressive that we're 2nd in GAA through 5 games considering the lack of big names on our defense.

 

[silkyjohnson50]

I'm skeptical of Pulkkinen being the answer right now. I'd rather have Helm in the top 6. I also have a hard time believing that Mantha will be in the lineup anytime soon. What's his status anyways? But even so, does anyone really expect him to come back and just tear the AHL apart for a month and then force his way up? I don't see it. Especially because I don't see Detroit struggling. And if they're not struggling, they're not going to make drastic changes.

Alfie is really the missing piece and I'm desperately clinging onto every bit of hope left that he can return at some point.

Franzen-Zetterberg-Nyquist
Helm/Abdelkader-Datsyuk-Alfredsson
Jurco-Sheahan-Tatar
Miller-Glendening-Abdelkader/Helm

That lineup would be a nightmare for the opposition.

 

[Boomhower]

Tatar couldn't convert but man was he dangerous and strong on the puck all night.

Tatar looks thicker and bigger on the ice. Not sure what his offseason workout goals were, but looks like he packed on some LBS and in a good way.

Love the way this team is playing to start the season. Aside from the Boston game very consistent performances. Get the PP straightened out and we may have a lot more than I thought this year!

 

[Flowah]

Sit one of Miller, Andersson, or Nestrasil. None of them are irreplaceable, and if we get Weiss going, he'll slot into the lineup a lot higher and allow someone like Helm or Abdelkader to be moved down to the fourth line.

of course, that depends on getting Weiss going...

It'd have to be two of them.

Franzen comes back, Weiss sits. Datsyuk comes back, someone else has to sit for him. Maybe, as you say, Miller, Andersson, or Nestrasil. To make room for Weiss you'd have to sit another one of Miller, Andersson, or Nestrasil.

Guaranteed forwards are Z, D, Franzen, Nyquist, Tatar, Sheahan, Helm, Abby, Glendening. 9/12 skaters. Now you have to choose 3 out of 5 in Weiss, Jurco, Nestrasil, Miller, Andersson.

It's a tough call. None of those guys are playing poorly. The 4th line's been pretty damn good and even generated some chances. Nestrasil is not a liability out there and he's shown some skill. Jurco's played okay, probably the worst out of everyone but still not badly. I feel like it makes Weiss the odd man out barring injuries. Having too many top9 forwards ain't a problem I guess but I really want to give Weiss a chance because of what he can offer this team if he plays the way we hope.

 

[GoAwayDanCleary]

I'd easily take Jurco over Nestrasil.

 

[Winger98]

It'd have to be two of them.

Franzen comes back, Weiss sits. Datsyuk comes back, someone else has to sit for him. Maybe, as you say, Miller, Andersson, or Nestrasil. To make room for Weiss you'd have to sit another one of Miller, Andersson, or Nestrasil.

Guaranteed forwards are Z, D, Franzen, Nyquist, Tatar, Sheahan, Helm, Abby, Glendening. 9/12 skaters. Now you have to choose 3 out of 5 in Weiss, Jurco, Nestrasil, Miller, Andersson.

It's a tough call. None of those guys are playing poorly. The 4th line's been pretty damn good and even generated some chances. Nestrasil is not a liability out there and he's shown some skill. Jurco's played okay, probably the worst out of everyone but still not badly. I feel like it makes Weiss the odd man out barring injuries. Having too many top9 forwards ain't a problem I guess but I really want to give Weiss a chance because of what he can offer this team if he plays the way we hope.

With the way Weiss looked against Toronto, it'd be hard to take anyone out for him. I don't think we have a problem with too many top9 forwards, though. We definitely have

Datsyuk
Zetterberg
Franzen
Nyquist
Tatar
Sheahan

in our top9. I'd include Jurco because of potential, so we're up to seven. after that...maybe Helm and Abdelkader? But they seem to be top9 guys either because they fill a particular role (they carry the piano or whatever metaphor Babcock is using this year), or because we're just too thin to not have at least one of them in the top9.

I know I'm a broken record with this, but my ideal lineup still has Helm and Abdelkader on the fourth line with Glendening.

Z-D-Alfie?
Franzen-Weiss-Nyquist
Tatar-Sheahan-Jurco
Abdelkader-Helm-Glendening

Weiss has to start producing more like the Weiss from Florida, though, and we need someone to line up next to Z&D.I really wonder what could have happened if Mantha hadn't broken his leg.

 

[detredWINgs]

With the way Weiss looked against Toronto, it'd be hard to take anyone out for him. I don't think we have a problem with too many top9 forwards, though. We definitely have

Datsyuk
Zetterberg
Franzen
Nyquist
Tatar
Sheahan

in our top9. I'd include Jurco because of potential, so we're up to seven. after that...maybe Helm and Abdelkader? But they seem to be top9 guys either because they fill a particular role (they carry the piano or whatever metaphor Babcock is using this year), or because we're just too thin to not have at least one of them in the top9.

I know I'm a broken record with this, but my ideal lineup still has Helm and Abdelkader on the fourth line with Glendening.

Z-D-Alfie?
Franzen-Weiss-Nyquist
Tatar-Sheahan-Jurco
Abdelkader-Helm-Glendening

Weiss has to start producing more like the Weiss from Florida, though, and we need someone to line up next to Z&D.I really wonder what could have happened if Mantha hadn't broken his leg.

There are probably less than a handful of teams in the NHL that have a fully skilled top 9. The only one I can think of off the top of my head is LA because of the emergence of Toffoli and Pearson to go along with all their skilled vets. And even then, Dwight King is still in their top 9. Anaheim has the likes of Beleskey and Maroon in their top 9. Chicago has guys like Smith, Kruger, and/or Bickell. Dallas has Garbutt and Roussel. Tampa has Brown and Boyle.

I think we sometimes underrate Helm and Abby - Helm because he doesn't have the hands to convert on his ever-present breakaways and Abdelkader because he's spent so much time not just in the top 9 but in the top 3. But they're both too good to play in a limited role and they both impact the game in ways that are disproportionate to their representation on the score board.

IMO, the "depth problem" with respect to our top 9 has much more to do with the fact that Sheahan, Jurco, and Tatar haven't fully come into their own yet. As much as I like the way they play better, they still have yet to reach Hudler/Filppula levels of production. The thing is, the talent is there and you can see how great they can be, it just simply hasn't translated to scoring consistently enough yet. Once that happens, I think the value of Helm and Abby in the top 9 will become more apparent.