Player Discussion Third Line Center Position

[bucks_oil]

Let me address both.

Haas has the far better advanced stats and I would say it stands up to the eye test. That being said he didn’t play much and I’d be more than willing to let him run with the 4C spot. Haas was, at least in my estimation, able to defend as well as Sheahan with a better offensive upside.

Haula is an ideal 3c for us and means Sheahan is gone for sure. Both Haas and Kharia are locked up for another year at 915k and 1.2 respectfully.

I'd be interested to see the stats if you had them handy. I don't know that I would agree with the bolded, but admittedly I "saw Sheahan good" mostly with Archibald, so there may be an attribution error.

Haas, for me, was mostly invisible. My impressions of him were that he was a lot faster, but a lot less effective than I'd hoped. He didn't seem to engage physically or win puck battles. I agree he was more dangerous with the puck, but that said, both were way, way, way below average in that regard.

 

[bucks_oil]

He is just sooo skilled, very speedy with good playmaking and a decent shot. His stickhandling is honestly easily 1st line potential. With 5'11 he is a little on the smaller side, but I love watching him play since many years and actually suggested trading for him or signing him since quite a few years. You sign him, if you want to inject skill to your lineup. He is not a heavy hitter or anything like that.

Those are his stats in the NHL so far:

138GP

25G

43A

68P

0.49 PPG

14PIM

+18

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Despite putting up good numbers, I feel like he is still completely flying under the radar for no good reason. He was used as a C and W so far in his NHL career. Imo he could also be injected to the top two lines without a problem. And for playing a 3rd line C role, he is easily good enough and will give the Oilers much needed secondary scoring.

Some short videos to get an idea (sorry only found goals and no playmaking vids):

Two partial seasons in the NHL at 23 and 24... o.5ppg,... I'd have time for that. But sportrac has him as an RFA... what makes you think he'll shake loose in Buffalo?

He'll likely be looking for a raise on his $3.75M (incl bonuses) contract though... and I would certainly rather have a more traditional checking C in that 3C role (at that price).

 

[BudBundy]

IS this really what happens these days. It seems to me most teams play top two lines vs top two lines and then bottom two vs bottom two with the fourth line often going against the oppositions fourth line.

Some teams definitely do play “power vs power” but that changes from game to game and obviously even within the same game. Bottom line, if your 3rd line C can’t play against the toughs, it creates opportunities for your opponents to create a mismatch.

 

[KahunWOW]

Two partial seasons in the NHL at 23 and 24... o.5ppg,... I'd have time for that. But sportrac has him as an RFA... what makes you think he'll shake loose in Buffalo?

He'll likely be looking for a raise on his $3.75M (incl bonuses) contract though... and I would certainly rather have a more traditional checking C in that 3C role (at that price).

MAYBE he could be had for relatively cheap in a trade of some kind. Just saying that I feel he would perfectly do the trick in a 3C role.

Honestly, I didn't even know about his bonuses. His cap hit is 925k though. Don't know how much he will be asking for, but can't imagine it would be at 4M under the current circumstances.

 

[Fourier]

Some teams definitely do play “power vs power” but that changes from game to game and obviously even within the same game. Bottom line, if your 3rd line C can’t play against the toughs, it creates opportunities for your opponents to create a mismatch.

I agree that it is advantageous to have a third line that can do this. I guess my issue was more to do with the phrase "shutdown 4th line". I'd love to see the Oilers add a 3rd line center who is a plus player in a number of aspects. A guy like Kadri would be ideal. He's really a solid top 2 center who is cheap enough to play on your third line and both specialty teams. But how do you find such a player??

 

[Fourier]

We don't have the money to have enough top 6 wingers and pay Nuge 6+ to play on the third line

It also makes no sense from the perspective of getting the most out of a player. He is too effective in teh top six to cut his ice time substantially and still pay him $6M+.

 

[CycloneSweep]

It also makes no sense from the perspective of getting the most out of a player. He is too effective in teh top six to cut his ice time substantially and still pay him $6M+.

Yep. The dropoff between Nuge and any of our left wingers in the top 6 is much larger than any benefit you get of putting Nuge with 3rd line wingers playing much less time than he would in the top 6. Sure maybe do that in the playoffs but in the regular season its not a great plan.

 

[McOilers97]

It also makes no sense from the perspective of getting the most out of a player. He is too effective in teh top six to cut his ice time substantially and still pay him $6M+.

He also just doesn't make enough happen when he's expected to be the best player on his line. He's a great fit as the #2 player on a line with one of the 2 big guns, but I've seen enough from RNH to be pretty sure he wouldn't give us much as a 3C.

 

[Fourier]

He also just doesn't make enough happen when he's expected to be the best player on his line. He's a great fit as the #2 player on a line with one of the 2 big guns, but I've seen enough from RNH to be pretty sure he wouldn't give us much as a 3C.

He was on a 60 point pace two years ago playing mostly with Lucic and guys like Puljujarvi as his wingers and on the second pp. But this does not change the fact that it would not make the team better to play him a lot less.

Before McDavid, did Nuge score at a higher pace with Hall or without Hall?

 

[Stoneman89]

I agree that it is advantageous to have a third line that can do this. I guess my issue was more to do with the phrase "shutdown 4th line". I'd love to see the Oilers add a 3rd line center who is a plus player in a number of aspects. A guy like Kadri would be ideal. He's really a solid top 2 center who is cheap enough to play on your third line and both specialty teams. But how do you find such a player??

Most importantly, you have a Tyson Barrie ready to dangle from the other end.

 

[McOilers97]

He was on a 60 point pace two years ago playing mostly with Lucic and guys like Puljujarvi as his wingers and on the second pp. But this does not change the fact that it would not make the team better to play him a lot less.

Before McDavid, did Nuge score at a higher pace with Hall or without Hall?

I'm not sure what the answer to that is honestly.

 

[GretzkytoKurri9917]

He was on a 60 point pace two years ago playing mostly with Lucic and guys like Puljujarvi as his wingers and on the second pp. But this does not change the fact that it would not make the team better to play him a lot less.

Before McDavid, did Nuge score at a higher pace with Hall or without Hall?

I'll guess and say without Hall.

 

[Fourier]

I'll guess and say without Hall.

And you would be right. This is despite the fact that the narrative was that he rode Hall's coat tails. Now as a team they scored more when Nuge played with Hall. But Nuge's individual numbers were better away from Hall. IN particular his assist rate went up because he was the guy driving the play rather than playing a complementary role to Hall.

 

[CycloneSweep]

And you would be right. This is despite the fact that the narrative was that he rode Hall's coat tails. Now as a team they scored more when Nuge played with Hall. But Nuge's individual numbers were better away from Hall. IN particular his assist rate went up because he was the guy driving the play rather than playing a complementary role to Hall.

But he will never be a 70+ point guy driving a 3rd line playing 15 minutes a night. Any of the wingers we have to throw in Nuges spot will be a 40ish point guy in that spot maybe. And then Nuge will be getting 40ish points on the 3rd line. Or you have Nuge in the top 6 at 70ish points and find a 3c that can get you 40 points.

 

[belair]

But he will never be a 70+ point guy driving a 3rd line playing 15 minutes a night. Any of the wingers we have to throw in Nuges spot will be a 40ish point guy in that spot maybe. And then Nuge will be getting 40ish points on the 3rd line. Or you have Nuge in the top 6 at 70ish points and find a 3c that can get you 40 points.

Odds are he'd be looking elsewhere next summer instead of signing the long-term extension we expect him to.

 

[CycloneSweep]

Odds are he'd be looking elsewhere next summer instead of signing the long-term extension we expect him to.

I'm fine with it in the playoffs to roll 3 lines but in the regular season he needs to be in the top 6

 

[BudBundy]

I agree that it is advantageous to have a third line that can do this. I guess my issue was more to do with the phrase "shutdown 4th line". I'd love to see the Oilers add a 3rd line center who is a plus player in a number of aspects. A guy like Kadri would be ideal. He's really a solid top 2 center who is cheap enough to play on your third line and both specialty teams. But how do you find such a player??

I agree. I was extremely jealous when the Avs stole Kadri.

 

[Messrules11]

I wonder about Adam Lowry, not cheap by any means but I’d love a big guy like that at 3C.

 

[ManofSteel55]

Ryan Strome please.

Oh wait. F you Chiarelli.

 

[ManofSteel55]

If he can figure out how to get close to 50% on the dot and become a solid penalty killer he could fit the bill particularly with being a right handed option . But jumping to 50% from 42.2% this year would be quite the improvement and doesn't seem likely.

Though I hate overvaluing faceoffs, a solid right handed faceoff man would be helpful.

Improvement like that isn't unheard of, as long as the player has someone to teach him those skills. The Oilers need to pay Adam Oates to come in and teach our C's how to faceoff.

 

[ManofSteel55]

From a skill point alone, Wennberg is a good choice.

I understand that his contract is bad, but I imagine CBJ would want to get out from under it. I don’t think any team calling on Wennberg doesn’t start that call without asking for salary retention.

It honestly depends on if Kekalainen wants to retool CBJ. He’d probably do Wennberg with $2M retention for a 3rd and a mid-level prospect.

I'm not sure on Wennberg. He was successful when he was a powerplay specialist in Columbus, before they got players to knock him down the depth chart. He's not going to get the powerplay opportunities here. I don't know if he is a fit. He's a faster Gagner in many ways.

 

[Burnt Biscuits]

I'm not sure on Wennberg. He was successful when he was a powerplay specialist in Columbus, before they got players to knock him down the depth chart. He's not going to get the powerplay opportunities here. I don't know if he is a fit. He's a faster Gagner in many ways.

Yeah I called him falling off hard when people were hyping him up and I don't think it was entirely just people knocking him down the depth chart, the guy was insanely hot on the PP and just didn't pose any real threat to score when left to his own devices, teams adjusted to let him play the perimeter, challenged him less, and focused on locking down the passing lanes and he became pretty irrelevant.

I always feel like certain players don't mesh with Torts style though so I always have some small interest in skill players who haven't performed as well as they maybe should.

 

[Vagabond]

Somehow Trade for Eller and Wilson from Washington.