Rumor: Things Not Left Unsaid 2, More Flyers Rumors & Media Mentions: Say It Like You Mean It

[BernieParent]

that could be a reason. Or to facilitate a trade as he is more widely known then the prior agent who only had I think they said 1 client.

Yep, Brisson probably checks multiple boxes for Couturier, both to improve relations and in case things go south.

 

[blackjackmulligan]

Yep, Brisson probably checks multiple boxes for Couturier, both to improve relations and in case things go south.

I cant se him having any trade value. Cant see the Flyer retaining as that would be dumb on the surface. They are stuck for the near future.

As far as the improving relations IMO the agent wont have any effect on that as it is between the player and coach. Coach aint gonna budge and the player will just go about his business.

Haven't seen anything indicating danny or Jones have any issues with the player an vice versa.

 

[GKJ]

I cant se him having any trade value. Cant see the Flyer retaining as that would be dumb on the surface. They are stuck for the near future.

As far as the improving relations IMO the agent wont have any effect on that as it is between the player and coach. Coach aint gonna budge and the player will just go about his business.

Haven't seen anything indicating danny or Jones have any issues with the player a vice versa.

This is all specifically what agents do.

 

[DrinkFightFlyers]

Dude, what? Load management is absolutely a responsibility of the coach.

Yes, if it is needed. Load management is needed to manage the load. If the player says he can play and doctors aren't concerned, then what are we managing? I don't know if you were one of the people up in arms but everyone freaks out when a guy like Coots (or Ghost, or whomever) is a healthy scratch when Torts does it because he doesn't like something the player did...but doing it when the player says he can play and doctors say he can play is ok? And what about the playoffs? If load management matters in the regular season shouldn't it matter in the playoffs? Are you going to sit Coots on back to back nights in the playoffs? If not, why not? What if he gets hurt or worn down?

If there's an indication he shouldn't be playing because of his health, then absolutely it is the coach's job to address that (just like if the player isn't playing well it is the coaches job to address that). If the player is fine from a health standpoint then no it isn't coach's job to hold him out "just in case" he gets hurt or tired.

 

[blackjackmulligan]

Yes, if it is needed. Load management is needed to manage the load. If the player says he can play and doctors aren't concerned, then what are we managing? I don't know if you were one of the people up in arms but everyone freaks out when a guy like Coots (or Ghost, or whomever) is a healthy scratch when Torts does it because he doesn't like something the player did...but doing it when the player says he can play and doctors say he can play is ok? And what about the playoffs? If load management matters in the regular season shouldn't it matter in the playoffs? Are you going to sit Coots on back to back nights in the playoffs? If not, why not? What if he gets hurt or worn down?

If there's an indication he shouldn't be playing because of his health, then absolutely it is the coach's job to address that (just like if the player isn't playing well it is the coaches job to address that). If the player is fine from a health standpoint then no it isn't coach's job to hold him out "just in case" he gets hurt or tired.

common sense says you limit his workload after missing 2 years and double back surgery. Even if he is healthy.

Now that being said based on his play there is a valid reason why he was scratched.

 

[Beef Invictus]

connecting the couturier situation to Clarke is beyond a reach.


why is that unfortunate? was he forced to sign that ext? he choose to stay here so no sympathy at all.

Tortorella is enraging Couturier and others. Clarke was thrilled that would happen. It is a core team value. Hextall introduced the idea that young players need to suffer for no reason, and the old dust bags who run this show in his image adored that idea. Like I said from the start, Tortorella is the embodiment of everything bad about the team's management. Every ongoing rupture in player relations instigated by their homonculus is an expression of what they value. They've expected that they can be shit bags to players with impunity but they've finally started f***ing with a wrong player. One can only hope that it's enough of a shock to puncture the Clarkian values of player abuse that have reigned supremeband been the regular MO since Snyder began declining, and start some kind of a return to Snyder's preferences for player treatment.

 

[blackjackmulligan]

Tortorella is enraging Couturier and others. Clarke was thrilled that would happen. It is a core team value. Hextall introduced the idea that young players need to suffer for no reason, and the old dust bags who run this show in his image adored that idea. Like I said from the start, Tortorella is the embodiment of everything bad about the team's management. Every ongoing rupture in player relations instigated by their homonculus is an expression of what they value. They've expected that they can be shit bags to players with impunity but they've finally started f***ing with a wrong player. One can only hope that it's enough of a shock to puncture the Clarkian values of player abuse that have reigned supremeband been the regular MO since Snyder began declining, and start some kind of a return to Snyder's preferences for player treatment.

so at the end of the day clarke is the reason we have the couturier situation?

 

[Beef Invictus]

so at the end of the day clarke is the reason we have the couturier situation?

The enthusiasm to abuse players flows from Clarke. There isn't really anything that doesn't tie back to him and his buddies and their retiree club where they play with a team and pretend they still matter

 

[BringBackHakstol]

Yes, if it is needed. Load management is needed to manage the load. If the player says he can play and doctors aren't concerned, then what are we managing? I don't know if you were one of the people up in arms but everyone freaks out when a guy like Coots (or Ghost, or whomever) is a healthy scratch when Torts does it because he doesn't like something the player did...but doing it when the player says he can play and doctors say he can play is ok? And what about the playoffs? If load management matters in the regular season shouldn't it matter in the playoffs? Are you going to sit Coots on back to back nights in the playoffs? If not, why not? What if he gets hurt or worn down?

If there's an indication he shouldn't be playing because of his health, then absolutely it is the coach's job to address that (just like if the player isn't playing well it is the coaches job to address that). If the player is fine from a health standpoint then no it isn't coach's job to hold him out "just in case" he gets hurt or tired.

I'm glad you recognize there is some space between "totally healthy" and "coming back from 2 years off of hockey".

 

[Tripod]

I'm glad you recognize there is some space between "totally healthy" and "coming back from 2 years off of hockey".

Just look at Kawhi Leonard on the Raptors.

Missed all but 9 games in San Antonio

Was cleared to play in Toronto but they did not play him in back to back nights and made sure on weeks with lots of games, they watched his workload. in the end, he played 60 games...missing 20ish.

But it kept him fresh for the games he did play and of course the playoffs where there are no game's on b2b nights.

Couts certainty should have been on a games restriction as well as a minutes...especially if the team REALLY believed this was a development year. But we know that was a lie and early on Torts used couts way too much in attempting to win games. It was pointed out in real time by multiple as it happened.

Torts was focused on benching Frost and making him a target of his scorn.

 

[DrinkFightFlyers]

common sense says you limit his workload after missing 2 years and double back surgery. Even if he is healthy.

Now that being said based on his play there is a valid reason why he was scratched.

Whose common sense? There is a medical team and a player saying the player can play. Wouldn't that be common sense, listening to the doctors and the person? I didn't realize common sense was "I am going to choose not to listen to the player or the doctors." Again, this is different if the medical staff is saying he is able to play but not at full capacity. In that situation yes absolutely you do that. But if not, how is it common sense to ignore what doctors (and the player) are telling you?

I'm glad you recognize there is some space between "totally healthy" and "coming back from 2 years off of hockey".

Of course there is, and that is what the medical staff and Coots' input is there for. Unless there is something I have missed, neither Coots or the docs wanted to have his minutes or games cut for medical reasons.

Just look at Kawhi Leonard on the Raptors.

Missed all but 9 games in San Antonio

Was cleared to play in Toronto but they did not play him in back to back nights and made sure on weeks with lots of games, they watched his workload. in the end, he played 60 games...missing 20ish.

But it kept him fresh for the games he did play and of course the playoffs where there are no game's on b2b nights.

Couts certainty should have been on a games restriction as well as a minutes...especially if the team REALLY believed this was a development year. But we know that was a lie and early on Torts used couts way too much in attempting to win games. It was pointed out in real time by multiple as it happened.

Torts was focused on benching Frost and making him a target of his scorn.

Ok, how about a guy like Joel Embiid? They do load management with him and he still gets hurt. You can't prevent it no matter what you are doing. Injuries will happen. It's part of the game. If a player says he is fine and the doctors agree what are we managing? That's what I am saying. Crosby has a history of concussions yet he played all 82 games the last two years at 35 and 36 on shitty teams. There's a laundry list of players that get seriously hurt and comeback and play without missing a beat. If there's a reason to hold them out, that's fine. But holding someone out for the sake of holding them out "just in case" is silly, especially if it is only for certain players. If you're going to hold Coots out just in case why not hold Frost out? He's young we don't want him to get too much wear on the tires while the team sucks. I hope Michkov doesn't expect to play all 82 games, he's never done that before so the first few seasons he should work his way up to it just in case!

 

[blackjackmulligan]

Whose common sense? There is a medical team and a player saying the player can play. Wouldn't that be common sense, listening to the doctors and the person? I didn't realize common sense was "I am going to choose not to listen to the player or the doctors." Again, this is different if the medical staff is saying he is able to play but not at full capacity. In that situation yes absolutely you do that. But if not, how is it common sense to ignore what doctors (and the player) are telling you?

Of course there is, and that is what the medical staff and Coots' input is there for. Unless there is something I have missed, neither Coots or the docs wanted to have his minutes or games cut for medical reasons.

Ok, how about a guy like Joel Embiid? They do load management with him and he still gets hurt. You can't prevent it no matter what you are doing. Injuries will happen. It's part of the game. If a player says he is fine and the doctors agree what are we managing? That's what I am saying. Crosby has a history of concussions yet he played all 82 games the last two years at 35 and 36 on shitty teams. There's a laundry list of players that get seriously hurt and comeback and play without missing a beat. If there's a reason to hold them out, that's fine. But holding someone out for the sake of holding them out "just in case" is silly, especially if it is only for certain players. If you're going to hold Coots out just in case why not hold Frost out? He's young we don't want him to get too much wear on the tires while the team sucks. I hope Michkov doesn't expect to play all 82 games, he's never done that before so the first few seasons he should work his way up to it just in case!

they are not ignoring the doctors. No need to go full bore game 1. You disagree. No problem

 

[Don Nachbaur 26]

Well they replaced everyone on the Flyers medical staff so are the new ones no better?

Even Atkinson said during training camp it was completely different "feel" than before. I think he even specifically said he trusted them.

 

[BringBackHakstol]

Whose common sense? There is a medical team and a player saying the player can play. Wouldn't that be common sense, listening to the doctors and the person? I didn't realize common sense was "I am going to choose not to listen to the player or the doctors." Again, this is different if the medical staff is saying he is able to play but not at full capacity. In that situation yes absolutely you do that. But if not, how is it common sense to ignore what doctors (and the player) are telling you?

Of course there is, and that is what the medical staff and Coots' input is there for. Unless there is something I have missed, neither Coots or the docs wanted to have his minutes or games cut for medical reasons.

Ok, how about a guy like Joel Embiid? They do load management with him and he still gets hurt. You can't prevent it no matter what you are doing. Injuries will happen. It's part of the game. If a player says he is fine and the doctors agree what are we managing? That's what I am saying. Crosby has a history of concussions yet he played all 82 games the last two years at 35 and 36 on shitty teams. There's a laundry list of players that get seriously hurt and comeback and play without missing a beat. If there's a reason to hold them out, that's fine. But holding someone out for the sake of holding them out "just in case" is silly, especially if it is only for certain players. If you're going to hold Coots out just in case why not hold Frost out? He's young we don't want him to get too much wear on the tires while the team sucks. I hope Michkov doesn't expect to play all 82 games, he's never done that before so the first few seasons he should work his way up to it just in case!

It's not a medical issue with respect to doctors, it's a stamina, fatigue, and conditioning thing. A player is never going to request to play less. Ever. I'm not sure why you aren't grasping this, it's simple

 

[DrinkFightFlyers]

It's not a medical issue with respect to doctors, it's a stamina, fatigue, and conditioning thing. A player is never going to request to play less. Ever. I'm not sure why you aren't grasping this, it's simple

I could be wrong, but I am pretty sure the team has a medical staff and there is a treating doctor or doctors somewhere regarding Coots' health and physical abilities along with a slew of records that talk about what he can and can't do.

I also find it funny that people were so upset about his healthy scratching but also at the same time you think that he should have been a healthy scratch more often? Healthy scratch if you are worried the player is too frail to play. Healthy scratch bad if the coach is doing it in response to his play.

 

[usahockey22flyers]

ASF on Nasty Knuckles….
-Torts scratching Coots did not sit well with the team… Nasty also reiterated this, but more so than I ever heard him say
-Nasty also said when Coots said “he didnt like how he was being treated” it made him say “woah” because he is an absolute professional and team guy. He knew something was up with the team. Thinks guys may have lost respect for Torts than
-Danny and Jonesy were pushing for Coots to be captain
-Danny and Coots are like big brother/little brother. Coots is like an uncle to Danny’s kids
-Coots played hurt and hit a wall
-Coots changing agents could mean a lot but thinks the new agent will work to facilitate a trade if its needed
-Wonders about Farabee in a trade, says Frost has been available for a year, no one met price
-Thinks they try to move Risto and that a Risto move in the summer always made more sense because GMs think Risto will need a summer and a training camp to get ready in a system
-Could this be the summer for Laughton? Not sure but spoke at length at how great he is as a person
-Fedotov and Michkov share an agent - thinks Flyers also paid above market value as a thank you and incentive to the agent - maybe he works harder to get Michkov over sooner?
-Expects him at the end of next season if he had a guess, eliminating the final year of the contract
-No big free agents, no big names for picks…maybe hockey 1 for 1 player for player deals

 

[GKJ]

Who was the one who said Torts demanded Couturier be named captain?

Presuming accurate reporting, this would be indisputable evidence of a power struggle.

 

[Chicken N Raffls]

ASF on Nasty Knuckles….
-Torts scratching Coots did not sit well with the team… Nasty also reiterated this, but more so than I ever heard him say
-Nasty also said when Coots said “he didnt like how he was being treated” it made him say “woah” because he is an absolute professional and team guy. He knew something was up with the team. Thinks guys may have lost respect for Torts than
-Danny and Jonesy were pushing for Coots to be captain
-Danny and Coots are like big brother/little brother. Coots is like an uncle to Danny’s kids
-Coots played hurt and hit a wall
-Coots changing agents could mean a lot but thinks the new agent will work to facilitate a trade if its needed
-Wonders about Farabee in a trade, says Frost has been available for a year, no one met price
-Thinks they try to move Risto and that a Risto move in the summer always made more sense because GMs think Risto will need a summer and a training camp to get ready in a system
-Could this be the summer for Laughton? Not sure but spoke at length at how great he is as a person
-Fedotov and Michkov share an agent - thinks Flyers also paid above market value as a thank you and incentive to the agent - maybe he works harder to get Michkov over sooner?
-Expects him at the end of next season if he had a guess, eliminating the final year of the contract
-No big free agents, no big names for picks…maybe hockey 1 for 1 player for player deals

Thisisfine.gif

 

[Chicken N Raffls]

Who was the one who said Torts demanded Couturier be named captain?

Presuming accurate reporting, this would be indisputable evidence of a power struggle.

Just memory, but I thought @Hollywood Cannon said that Danny said this at one of the STH things? (That TORTS wanted Coots for C) Now this report is saying the opposite? Shit is f***ed.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

Just memory, but I thought @Hollywood Cannon said that Danny said this at one of the STH things? (That TORTS wanted Coots for C) Now this report is saying the opposite? Shit is f***ed.

Yeah, Briere said it was out of nowhere for Torts to come in his office and name him.

I don’t think what was said there directly contradicts anything. Coots should have been the captain all year. I imagine Briere and Jones thought this but Torts being Torts he had to have the final say.

 

[renberg]

Torts is and always has been a ****. It takes a lot of effort by Briere and Jones to polish up Torts in order to make him acceptable to the fan base. So far it has worked for the most part.
Still at some point there won’t be enough lipstick to put on the pig. Then it’s going to get ugly. The Couturier mess and calling the team soft at the end of the year might be the beginning of Torts’ demise. These are the things that he does that eventually become his undoing.

 

[trostol]

you couldn't be this dysfunctional if you tried

 

[Tripod]

Ok, how about a guy like Joel Embiid? They do load management with him and he still gets hurt. You can't prevent it no matter what you are doing. Injuries will happen. It's part of the game. If a player says he is fine and the doctors agree what are we managing? That's what I am saying. Crosby has a history of concussions yet he played all 82 games the last two years at 35 and 36 on shitty teams. There's a laundry list of players that get seriously hurt and comeback and play without missing a beat. If there's a reason to hold them out, that's fine. But holding someone out for the sake of holding them out "just in case" is silly, especially if it is only for certain players. If you're going to hold Coots out just in case why not hold Frost out? He's young we don't want him to get too much wear on the tires while the team sucks. I hope Michkov doesn't expect to play all 82 games, he's never done that before so the first few seasons he should work his way up to it just in case!

you can't possibly think this is the same thing.

Embiid has not done load Mgt from the start of the season and done it all year.....when coming off an injury. Plus, he is a physical freak with lots of weight on his knees and ankles...plus his falling down aimlessly. Not tge same at all.

Crosby...we all know concussions are different. You are not SUPPOSED to be cleared to play until you are 100%. A guy coming off of multiple back surgeries...you don't overwork him right from the get go. Common sense says you monitor minutes and games.

And you know your being dumb with the Frost and MM comments. Young, healthy players are not the same as a 30 year old coming off of 2 back surgeries. You know that.

But fwiw, people DO know that often young guys hit a wall because they are not used to more games plus the travel.

 

[BringBackHakstol]

This organization is horrific. It's so unfair to be stuck with this

 

[Audible Velvet]

Tear it all down