They can't actually be this bad right?

[truthbluth]

It doesn't make sense that these guys are that much worse than the team was two years ago. I think the teams playing the Sabres are playing differently than they do against other teams. The Sabres are bad, but the teams they are playing are so aggressive on the forecheck. They don't give any Sabre any respect. I've never seen anything like it. Is it some fundamental flaw in Ted's "system", or is it that opposing teams are just so crazy confident that they don't bother to ever play safe? Either way, anybody playing the Sabres right now is looking to get well, and these chumps are doing little to dissuade them.

I guess I'm not sure what this thread is about. Am I the only one seeing it? Teams aren't just better than the Sabres, they're kind of bullying them. I hate to use the word Bully because it has such a victim culture connotation to it, but I don't know what else to call it. It's what teams do when they expect to win. Dynasty teams play like this against everybody. Everybody playing the Sabres plays with no fear and no mercy. I'm not complaining exactly. I guess I think that until the Sabres stand up to a few teams and punch them in the mouth (figuratively, by scoring goals), this 'bullying' won't stop. And I don't give a rats ass about McTankel. Just show me a winner.

Click to read more...

 

[HogtownSabresfan]

It doesn't make sense that these guys are that much worse than the team was two years ago. I think the teams playing the Sabres are playing differently than they do against other teams. The Sabres are bad, but the teams they are playing are so aggressive on the forecheck. They don't give any Sabre any respect. I've never seen anything like it. Is it some fundamental flaw in Ted's "system", or is it that opposing teams are just so crazy confident that they don't bother to ever play safe? Either way, anybody playing the Sabres right now is looking to get well, and these chumps are doing little to dissuade them.

I guess I'm not sure what this thread is about. Am I the only one seeing it? Teams aren't just better than the Sabres, they're kind of bullying them. I hate to use the word Bully because it has such a victim culture connotation to it, but I don't know what else to call it. It's what teams do when they expect to win. Dynasty teams play like this against everybody. Everybody playing the Sabres plays with no fear and no mercy. I'm not complaining exactly. I guess I think that until the Sabres stand up to a few teams and punch them in the mouth (figuratively, by scoring goals), this 'bullying' won't stop. And I don't give a rats ass about McTankel. Just show me a winner.

Of course it makes sense.

1. Goaltending worse.
2. No Vanek (he was also there for part of last year)
3. No Christian Ehrhoff. Huge, he played a ton of minutes.
4. Coaching is a joke. Nolan is the king of meaningless platitudes. He's worse than Ruff for sure. Personally, I think Rolston had more of game plan. I didn't like it, it was a boring defensive shell. Nolan's plan is to have guys run around hard. There's no rhyme or reason.
5. Where are the upgrades? Myers? Ok. He looks better. Girgensons? Definitely, gets better every day. The FA are all a joke, designed to get to the floor. Gorges was only legit pickup.

PS. This is all planned by Murray. We all know that. He's doing a nice acting job pretending he wants to compete this year. LOL

 

[Paxon]

Regarding the forecheck and general aggressiveness, I think it's a simple matter of success breeding confidence and an intuitive response to exploit that which lead to success. If opposing teams are winning their forecheck battles then both strategy and basic human instincts tell them to dial it up. Likewise, there's an inverse effect on the confidence of the team losing the battles on the forecheck, leading to rushed attempts to move the puck before the forecheck gets there, paralysis of decision-making, etc. It just snowballs for both teams. It's no different than a football team with a weak run defense. Even teams not noted for strong rushing attacks are going to pound it down your throat if they have initial success with it. Hell, I would even say if you're playing NHL 15 the same principle applies. Momentum is a big deal in the free-flowing sport of hockey.

As to why the Sabres are so much worse than a couple years ago, I think for one thing, psychologically, going from a team that could be battling for a playoff spot to the worst team in the league has a negative effect on the individual and the unit. Some key players were lost. Sekera's loss was huge. We had Myers as our third-best defenseman behind Ehrhoff and Sekera, then just Myers and Ehrhoff, and now just Myers. All due respect to Gorges, but he's definitely worse than both Ehrhoff and Sekera overall. I think he's a great partner for Myers but we previously had three solid guys spread around at least two pairings. At forward we lost our two best players in Vanek and Pominville. I also think we had a serious downgrade in coaching, regardless of whether it was Ruff's time to go or not, or whether people think he's overrated, etc.

 

[Namejs]

'A worse game plan' is a very vague criticism.

What was Rolston's game plan? In what way specifically is the current game plan worse?

I definitely agree with Rob Paxon. Anyone who's ever played on a team knows that confidence changes everything, *especially offensively*. You are no longer capable of taking the same kinds of risks, flair/creativity disappears, trusting your teammates also becomes an issue, etc.

In fact, Sabres defense/goaltending hasn't been that awful. Looking back at the last season, Sabres were ranked 25th in Goals Against. It's the offense that has been atrocious.

 

[dugman]

Going into the season, I was hoping the Sabres would be a flaming pile of excrement until about the all-star break, allowing us to relax about the whole draft position thing, then start playing better late in the season, building momentum and confidence toward next year. I am telling myself that this will happen due to young players maturing, trade acquisitions, and players from Rochester coming up and playing like they belong.
So far, the "flaming pile" part is going swimmingly; I'll keep watching every game to look for signs of improvement, and, well, because I am an idiot and it's what I've done for the past 40 years.

 

[Sabretooth]

Gotta earn the respect you want teams to give us. Right now we can't create an odd man rush let alone finish it so of course teams can be more aggressive against us on the forecheck

 

[Jacob582]

I thought his team was going to be harder to play against. I am surprised.

This team would be a playoff contender if we added an above average 2nd pairing D and a top line center and wingers. Not much to ask for.

 

[Husko]

There was a group of us over the summer that said this team was categorically worse than last year. No one would listen

 

[Namejs]

There was a group of us over the summer that said this team was categorically worse than last year. No one would listen

Sabres had 9 points in the first 20 games of the season last year.

It's tough to be categorically worse than that, and I don't think the Sabres are worse this time around.

The team has lost Miller, but also added forward depth. The 4th/3rd lines are substantially better (Reinhart vs. Scott, anyone?). Flynn used to play on the 3rd line for most of the season. Sabres also have reserves in Grigorenko/Larsson and Pysyk. Any of them joining would improve the current line-up.

 

[Husko]

Sabres had 9 points in the first 20 games of the season last year.

It's tough to be categorically worse than that, and I don't think the Sabres are worse this time around.

The team has lost Miller, but also added forward depth. The 4th/3rd lines are substantially better (Reinhart vs. Scott, anyone?). Flynn used to play on the 3rd line for most of the season. Sabres also have reserves in Grigorenko/Larsson and Pysyk. Any of them joining would improve the current line-up.

Were they ever outshot this bad last year?

 

[HogtownSabresfan]

'A worse game plan' is a very vague criticism.

What was Rolston's game plan? In what way specifically is the current game plan worse?

I definitely agree with Rob Paxon. Anyone who's ever played on a team knows that confidence changes everything, *especially offensively*. You are no longer capable of taking the same kinds of risks, flair/creativity disappears, trusting your teammates also becomes an issue, etc.

In fact, Sabres defense/goaltending hasn't been that awful. Looking back at the last season, Sabres were ranked 25th in Goals Against. It's the offense that has been atrocious.

It's subjective for sure. But I see a Sabres team that seems to have no plan all. The PP just seems completely lost and there's no excuse for that in my book.

Most NHL teams have five guys who should be able to get chances on PP when playing against an opposition with four guys. Albeit Sabres can't take a face off but zone entries are horrid.

 

[SabresFanNorthPortFL]

And yet again, our guys are playing a line, or two, over where they should be.

Ennis is not a first liner, nor is CoHo, Stafford, Foligno, Gionta, etc. The only one who could be argued is Moulson...and Girgs is on his way.

As for the defense, today we have 2 guys the are legit NHL defenders in Gorges and Myers....Risto is on his way too. Mez, Poul, Weber, Stra are all fill ins.

It's all about the tank this year...team is assembled correctly for that. Painful to watch but necessary.

I'd like to see Myers with another top 1 or 2 defenders, play him within his skill set and I bet he flourishes.

The team lacks top line talent.

 

[chi777]

Two reasons for the aggressive forecheck.

1. The only two d-men we have that are even remotely competent at skating and moving the puck are Myers and Risto. Everyone else is pretty terrible and will give up the puck with some ease.

2. There so little offensive potential on the Sabres that there's no reason to play cautious. No one on this team can score with regularity. So even on the off chance that the forecheck fails and the Sabres get a breakout, there's very little chance that we score.

There's no reason to not go on full attack mode when you're playing the Sabres.

 

[joshjull]

Regarding the forecheck and general aggressiveness, I think it's a simple matter of success breeding confidence and an intuitive response to exploit that which lead to success. If opposing teams are winning their forecheck battles then both strategy and basic human instincts tell them to dial it up. Likewise, there's an inverse effect on the confidence of the team losing the battles on the forecheck, leading to rushed attempts to move the puck before the forecheck gets there, paralysis of decision-making, etc. It just snowballs for both teams. It's no different than a football team with a weak run defense. Even teams not noted for strong rushing attacks are going to pound it down your throat if they have initial success with it. Hell, I would even say if you're playing NHL 15 the same principle applies. Momentum is a big deal in the free-flowing sport of hockey.

As to why the Sabres are so much worse than a couple years ago, I think for one thing, psychologically, going from a team that could be battling for a playoff spot to the worst team in the league has a negative effect on the individual and the unit. Some key players were lost. Sekera's loss was huge. We had Myers as our third-best defenseman behind Ehrhoff and Sekera, then just Myers and Ehrhoff, and now just Myers. All due respect to Gorges, but he's definitely worse than both Ehrhoff and Sekera overall. I think he's a great partner for Myers but we previously had three solid guys spread around at least two pairings. At forward we lost our two best players in Vanek and Pominville. I also think we had a serious downgrade in coaching, regardless of whether it was Ruff's time to go or not, or whether people think he's overrated, etc.

Well said.


As to the thread question. No I don't think they are really this bad. Regardless of where we stand on Ennis, Hodgson among others. We know they can be better than what we've seen to this point. IMO the team is playing scared and with little confidence right now. Much of whats doing them in are correctable mistakes. Things like making bad passes because they rushed the pass but they where under little to no pressure not receiving passes well under the same situations. Panicking with the puck and making poor decisions is killing them. I get it when they are under pressure but whats been tough to watch is when thats not been the case. I didn't expect things to start off this bad but I did feel they would start slow and need to spend the early part of the season building up their confidence and game. It hasn't helped that on the back end they've had guys like Benoit and The Mess getting top 4 minutes. I had expected Pysyk to be a stalwart in that group and he hasn't played here yet. It would have given us at least one reliable dman on each pairing had he been here.

 

[oldgoalie]

Enroth is your starter...
Before anyone jumps all over my ass, yeah, he's played OK so far.

But so did some of the other "B" level starters the Sabres have had in the past (See "Biron, Marty", or "Puppa, Darren").

See how Enroth and Neuvirth look 50 games into the season, giving up this number of shots.

This team is a tire fire. The tank continues.

 

[MayDayMayDay]

Better days are ahead.

 

[CatsforReinhart]

There was a group of us over the summer that said this team was categorically worse than last year. No one would listen

I was one of them and I got roasted for it. Hodgson and Ennis a terrible defensively. I mean the points those guys put up are pretty much meaningless because of the goals that are scored against when they are on the ice.

We should all be happy for it and when the time comes things change.

 

[Shoey]

the Sabres are exactly as good as they want to be. I for one am thrilled.

 

[Bps21*]

I was one of them and I got roasted for it. Hodgson and Ennis a terrible defensively. I mean the points those guys put up are pretty much meaningless because of the goals that are scored against when they are on the ice.

We should all be happy for it and when the time comes things change.

I was one of them too. No one could ever explain to me how they would ever have the puck.

 

[Trobes]

And yet again, our guys are playing a line, or two, over where they should be.

McEichel changes that next year.

This team would be a playoff contender if we added an above average 2nd pairing D and a top line center and wingers. Not much to ask for.

Top line centers rarely get traded you have to be BAD and DRAFT him.

This is a real easy formula lol.

 

[couture23]

Nolan is just not a very good coach. The game is completely changing towards the analytic side and he won't even take a peek at it, which pisses me off.

 

[ellja3]

The general opinion in Latvia (based on forum comments, surely) is that there is absolutely no tactics in BUF game, just bunch of guys working hard, but plays, some tinge of tactical wisdom - none. Such approach can perhaps yield some nice results in short term, as we saw in some cases w LV national team [although now people are switching to ''Nolan just got lucky'']. Endless comments about how it was Ozolinsh drawing all the tactical things during time-outs of Olympics/qualifications while Nolan was just standing there.

 

[FamilyGuy716]

There was a group of us over the summer that said this team was categorically worse than last year. No one would listen

That is spot on.

I was hoping you were correct but I was worried that all the changes would help. All my worries were for naught.

 

[Namejs]

The general opinion in Latvia (based on forum comments, surely) is that there is absolutely no tactics in BUF game, just bunch of guys working hard, but plays, some tinge of tactical wisdom - none. Such approach can perhaps yield some nice results in short term, as we saw in some cases w LV national team [although now people are switching to ''Nolan just got lucky'']. Endless comments about how it was Ozolinsh drawing all the tactical things during time-outs of Olympics/qualifications while Nolan was just standing there.

I think you should stop making things up.

Most of the things you just said are not even remotely true and you probably know it.

 

[sba]

There was a group of us over the summer that said this team was categorically worse than last year. No one would listen

I think if you look at what's gone and what replaced it, that it's pretty clear that this team would be worse.

The only real "upgrade" was Gionta over Ott and honestly, that's not looking so hot right now either.