Confirmed with Link: Therrien signed to 4 year extension

habsfanatics*

Registered User
May 20, 2012
5,051
1
Not in this context no. I think ECH is a pretty decent poster and I've told him so on more than one occassion but he's taken the "devil's advocate" act too far.

All the numbers point to him being a bad coach, the roster moves, the benchings, throwing players under the bus, putting Cube on the PP etc, etc, etc, etc... These aren't the kinds of moves that could be debated they are outright outlandish stupid mistakes. So when somebody credits this guy for being a good coach because of our record he'd better be able to back it up with something esp when our goalie is carrying the day.

Well, I mostly agree with your thoughts on Therrien, but we don't know everything here. How much is MB's doing here, he's the one acquiring Allen/Weaver etc sending down NB and JT. I have a hard time believing the GM and coach are at odds here.

I think it's much more likely that they are working together and have similar thoughts on the roster to some degree. If they're this out of step with one another, if the 4 year extension means anything, it doesn't say much for MB, because everything you've posted was not any different when the extension happened.
 

Lafleurs Guy

Guuuuuuuy!
Jul 20, 2007
75,242
45,168
Well, I mostly agree with your thoughts on Therrien, but we don't know everything here. How much is MB's doing here, he's the one acquiring Allen/Weaver etc sending down NB and JT. I have a hard time believing the GM and coach are at odds here.
I don't know that they are. I'm just wondering if MB has anything to do with this. I don't know that he does...
I think it's much more likely that they are working together and have similar thoughts on the roster to some degree. If they're this out of step with one another, if the 4 year extension means anything, it doesn't say much for MB, because everyone you've posted was not any different when the extension happened.
Look, NOTHING would make me happier than seeing MT change his ways. If it comes from him or from MB, I really don't care. I do not enjoy bashing Hab players, coaches or GMs. I bash them when it's warranted and I think with MT its been richly deserved.

I look at the lineup for our next game though and I'm excited. I'll be more than happy to credit MT for putting in the right lineups if it improves our play. He's shown he can implement a good system - he did in 2013 - so maybe we can turn this around.

All I'm saying is that he needs to change the way he's doing things or this team is going to have a really, really hard time winning anything. You can only rely on your goalie the way we do for so long. Sooner or later you'll get smoked as we did when Price went down against the Rangers.

I believe (and folks can disagree) that we have a team that is as good as any in the East. We can actually seriously contend for a cup for the first time in about two decades. I just don't want us to piss it away with decisions that are OBVIOUSLY bad. And as I told you - you don't need to have all the answers to see that DD on the first line is a bad decision. You don't need to have all the answers to see that he's wrong on Cube, Murray, Allen etc... These should be easy enough for him to see himself.
 

Team_Spirit

95% Elliotte
Jul 3, 2002
37,770
17,699
Michel Therrien outlast Paul MacLean ................... i hope he got Price a nice Christmas gift.
 

groovejuice

Without deviation progress is not possible
Jun 27, 2011
19,277
18,222
Calgary
Michel Therrien outlast Paul MacLean ................... i hope he got Price a nice Christmas gift.

God forbid any serious injury should befall Carey Price.

The team will free fall in the standings and MT could quickly be back criticising Subban on AC.
 

Monctonscout

Monctonscout
Jan 26, 2008
34,935
1
Funny that people complain about Therrien only preaching "dump and chase"...here we have an NHL stat on puck possession...

Habs are 4th in the NHL in puck possession time with 18:57, behind only Chicago, St.Louis and Nashville...and ahead of Pittsburgh.

Mike Kelly ‏@MikeKellyNHL · 58m58 minutes ago
The @StLouisBlues lead the NHL in possession time/game after 2 months...
 

Lebowski

El Duderino
Dec 5, 2010
17,585
5,218
Funny that people complain about Therrien only preaching "dump and chase"...here we have an NHL stat on puck possession...

Habs are 4th in the NHL in puck possession time with 18:57, behind only Chicago, St.Louis and Nashville...and ahead of Pittsburgh.

Mike Kelly ‏@MikeKellyNHL · 58m58 minutes ago
The @StLouisBlues lead the NHL in possession time/game after 2 months...

Oh really?

Because according to this: http://www.hockey-reference.com/play-index/tpbp_finder.cgi?request=1&match=single&year_min=2015&year_max=&team_id=&situation_id=all&order_by=fenwick_pct

We're third tier in fenwick. 3rd last in defensive zone starts, only in front of Buffalo and Toronto. Botton tier in corsi.

Most importantly, when I look at the team play, I see no cohesion, no passing game, no speed, no nothing but dump, chase, and icings.
 

Kriss E

Registered User
May 3, 2007
55,329
20,272
Jeddah
Oh really?

Because according to this: http://www.hockey-reference.com/play-index/tpbp_finder.cgi?request=1&match=single&year_min=2015&year_max=&team_id=&situation_id=all&order_by=fenwick_pct

We're third tier in fenwick. 3rd last in defensive zone starts, only in front of Buffalo and Toronto. Botton tier in corsi.

Most importantly, when I look at the team play, I see no cohesion, no passing game, no speed, no nothing but dump, chase, and icings.

That puck possession minute number, which wasn't really linked to any site might I add, probably comes from us cycling the puck along the boards senselessly until we lose it.
 

Gamimenos

Registered User
Apr 28, 2009
3,221
1,304
Oh really?

Because according to this: http://www.hockey-reference.com/play-index/tpbp_finder.cgi?request=1&match=single&year_min=2015&year_max=&team_id=&situation_id=all&order_by=fenwick_pct

We're third tier in fenwick. 3rd last in defensive zone starts, only in front of Buffalo and Toronto. Botton tier in corsi.

Most importantly, when I look at the team play, I see no cohesion, no passing game, no speed, no nothing but dump, chase, and icings.

And constant attempt at a long stretch pass that fails more often than not.
 

Lemons

Registered User
Mar 26, 2008
980
0
I think the main problem with therrien is his inability to understand the evolution/growth of his players.

He's stuck in his old styles/methodologies, which in theory, should work; but Your players are people and their skillsets will continue to change and it is the coach's job to continue to adapt his system and coaching for his players to respond adequately on ice. I think this is what happened in pitts as well.

I like the lineup shuffle which is a step in the right direction. But man, 3-4 games is alright, almost every single game this year it seems like we enter a game unprepared. This is on the coach and no one else.
 
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Monctonscout

Monctonscout
Jan 26, 2008
34,935
1
Oh really?

Because according to this: http://www.hockey-reference.com/play-index/tpbp_finder.cgi?request=1&match=single&year_min=2015&year_max=&team_id=&situation_id=all&order_by=fenwick_pct

We're third tier in fenwick. 3rd last in defensive zone starts, only in front of Buffalo and Toronto. Botton tier in corsi.

Most importantly, when I look at the team play, I see no cohesion, no passing game, no speed, no nothing but dump, chase, and icings.

Contrary to those stats, which are based on the flawed "shots attempted" stat, this is actual PUCK POSESSION time. The time that team X has the puck on their stick...but don't let facts get in the way of your rant...
 

MathMan

Registered User
Jan 20, 2006
17,555
0
Habs are 4th in the NHL in puck possession time with 18:57, behind only Chicago, St.Louis and Nashville...and ahead of Pittsburgh.

Without knowing how much possession the Habs' opponents had in each game, that's worthless. (It's like a team that takes 40 shots on goal a game, which sounds good until you get told they also allow 50).

For that matter, we don't know if that's 5-on-5 only either, but if we assume so -- teams who take and draw fewer penalties would get more 5-on-5 time, thus inflating their number without them being actually better.

Presumably this all means puck on stick time, though that also wasn't specified.

Anyway, long story short, it's not clear at all what the number means, and we have no idea how opponents do vs. the Habs, so that number tells us precisely nothing.
 

HuGo Sham

MR. CLEAN-up ©Runner77
Apr 7, 2010
27,858
19,367
Montreal
as i posted on twitter, someone please explain the ****ing rush to extend this guy? BAD move by Bergevin - and i'm an MB fan
 

Monctonscout

Monctonscout
Jan 26, 2008
34,935
1
as i posted on twitter, someone please explain the ****ing rush to extend this guy? BAD move by Bergevin - and i'm an MB fan

When was there a "rush" to extend him?

He was extended with a year left on his contract, pro sports teams basically never go into a season with a coach on the last year of his contract. It's not like it comes out of your pocket or mine and it doesn't take up cap space, so who really cares?
 

Price My Man Crush

Registered User
Aug 27, 2011
4,828
0
Montréal
When was there a "rush" to extend him?

He was extended with a year left on his contract, pro sports teams basically never go into a season with a coach on the last year of his contract. It's not like it comes out of your pocket or mine and it doesn't take up cap space, so who really cares?

What the ****ing ****, where do you think Molson takes his money from?

:shakehead People have the right to complain, it's their money.
 

CrAzYNiNe

who could have predicted?
Jun 5, 2003
11,765
2,901
Montreal
What the ****ing ****, where do you think Molson takes his money from?

:shakehead People have the right to complain, it's their money.

Seriously. The ignorance of some is rather outstanding. How can one think that we, the fans, do not pay for EVERYTHING that comes out of the habs? do they think the habs are losing money so Molson puts in personal money to keep them financially afloat? Seriously, where do they think Therriens salary is paid, the sky?
 

Kriss E

Registered User
May 3, 2007
55,329
20,272
Jeddah
Seriously. The ignorance of some is rather outstanding to think that we, the fans, do not pay for EVERYTHING that comes out of the habs.

There's no NHL without fans. It's all about the consumers. Likewise for the Bell Center.
 

Captain Mountain

Formerly Captain Wolverine
Jun 6, 2010
20,449
14,031
Coaches are hired to be fired. It shouldn't be concerning that he got an extension, many coaches have signed extensions while on the hot seat, only to be fired later. IF the team continues to fall in the standing, MSM and management will start to focus on his more perplexing decisions and strategies and he'll start to feel the heat.

Contrary to those stats, which are based on the flawed "shots attempted" stat, this is actual PUCK POSESSION time. The time that team X has the puck on their stick...but don't let facts get in the way of your rant...

Based on statistical analysis with relatively standardized data, shot attempt stats have shown to correlate to goals, goals against, shots, shots against and even wins.

I'm certainly not familiar with puck possession time, and it may correlate with those things to, but there are some pretty evident flaws:

1) Definition of puck possession. Habs are 4th, with 18:57. That means that for over a 3rd of a game, no team has possession. Even counting non-even strength play, that seems inexact. How is that determined? There a number of different ways to define possession, and without knowing the definition its hard to draw conclusions.

2) Zone. Where is Montreal possessing the puck? Montreal's high possession time and low shot attempts point to two things: a) They aren't shooting enough; and/or b) they aren't possessing the puck enough in the attacking zone. The vast majority of shot attempts are taken in the attacking zone.

3) Lack of historical data. It's new and hasn't really been proliferated, so there isn't much research into its importance. We know possession is importance, but we don't know if time is more or less important than other areas. What effect does score-effects play? Breakout strategies? We don't know that.

Still, its a positive stat, but its up to the team and coaching staff to convert that possession time into generating shots, chances and goals while minimizing opponents chances there. Because Montreal does not rate highly in many other statistical categories (or the eye test).

http://video.nhl.com/videocenter/console?id=694629&catid=53
(Video linked in tweet)
 

CrAzYNiNe

who could have predicted?
Jun 5, 2003
11,765
2,901
Montreal
If those paying fans don't like it, they can stay home, there are many many others waiting for their seat.

Again, another preposterous comment... How about I pay, I say I don't like where this team is going. THAT IS A REAL FAN. I have the right to my opinion. This team means more to me then personnel changes, and players. If you think you have to agree with everything because you are a fan, well sir, you are a peasant.
 

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