Confirmed with Link: The worst day in Sharks history (DeMelo re-signed: 2yr/$900k per)
- Thread starter TomasHertlsRooster
- Start date
KKurzNHL
Registered User
- Sep 1, 2013
- 58
- 46
I'd love for someone to explain to my why Tim Heed is supposedly such an upgrade over DeMelo. Heed had 6 ES points in 29 games this season, yet some of you make him out to be some offensive dynamo. He is smaller and less physical than DeMelo. He's not as strong in his own zone. It's pretty simple, frankly.
Did you actually watch them play at all this year?
hockeyball
Registered User
- Nov 10, 2007
- 21,552
- 886
Demelo is what he is. A fine 7th d-man who is pretty much at his peak and still makes regular and terrible 'rookie' mistakes. He's not getting better, and the more minutes he's given, the worse his stats deteriorate. He's being heavily overused and overmatched on a regular basis. Really this isn't Demolo's fault, it's DeBoer's for putting him in situations he isn't fit for, but regardless. Heed might not be any better, but he's barely been given an opportunity. One screw up, like Demelo makes on a nightly basis, and Heed is back down to the Barracuda. It's not so much that people think Heed is deffinetly better (though he, based on his history, should have more potential offensively), it's that Demelo's leash isn't just long, it's lying on the floor not attached to anything where as Heed seems to be hanging from the ceiling from his.
People are just frustrated basically that he's not being given opportunities when he's looked no worse, and often better, than the guy given every opportunity. Maybe it's an attitude thing or something, I don't know, I don't know either guy personally, but from the outside it looks like favoritism.
Juxtaposer
Outro: Divina Comedia
Playing very few minutes with the Sharks’ third line. Why are we pretending that PP production doesn’t matter? Any failings of Heed compared to DeMelo that you may see (I certainly don’t, but my opinion clearly doesn’t matter to you) should be more than made up for on the PP, no?
Crazy Joe Divola
Registered User
- Jun 20, 2009
- 3,398
- 2,611
I think for most of us (me atleast) it’s that we know what we have with DeMelo - a serviceable 6/7 D-man. That seems to pretty much be his ceiling at this point. Whereas Heed has shown glimpses of potentially being more than that.
Personally, I’d like to see Heed given more opportunity to see if that potential can be realized. Especially when the only cost of finding out would be having a basically average 6/7 D-man sit more often. Heed or DeMelo in the lineup won’t really make or break the game so why not.
It’s like an in-game version of drafting Merkley. There were probably safer picks that no one would have faulted them for taking but they took a chance on maybe finding something more.
My .02 cents.
AgentCooper
Registered User
I was admittedly quite excited to see that you replied, then quickly disappointed to find that you chose not to engage with anything I said. This is, as usual, a string of unspecific generalizations.
What does Heed do better than DeMelo? For one, he has the potential to be a legitimate powerplay weapon from the blue line, which we desperately need. He is far more effective there than Vlasic or Braun already (you wrote not so long ago, correctly, that Vlasic needs to get the hell off the PP). Behind Brent Burns, is there any defenseman on the roster that you think belongs on a powerplay unit? That is a problem. Heed can help us in this important aspect of the game in a way that DeMelo cannot.
Secondly, Heed and Dillon were a far more effective pairing than Heed and DeMelo in terms of scoring chances for and limiting chances against. Now, Dillon-Heed did get more offensive zone starts, but that does not detract from their value as a pairing. As I mentioned previously, which you chose not to acknowledge, we have a heavy-lifting pairing in Vlasic-Braun. Why not look for a more offensive player to play next to Brendan Dillon? It doesn't even have to be Heed. Why not try to maximize offense from our other pairings when he have a shutdown pairing taking the hardest minutes? I assume that you like Vlasic-Braun. I know you are content with Dillon-DeMelo. Neither of these pairings have offensive upside. That is not a winning formula in today's NHL.
So, now, I'd love for you to explain to me why SPECIFICALLY DeMelo is such an upgrade over Heed. I remember Juxtaposer posing this question to you months ago but you never replied. "Stronger in his own zone" is a meaningless statement. What do you mean by that? He loses his man less often? He's better positionally? His breakout passes are crisper? Please explain with evidence. Additionally, why are you hell bent on supporting a pairing that put up a whopping 5 goals (all Dillon's) all season with negative Corsi on top of it? Why do you roll your eyes and turn the sarcasm up to 11 at anyone who suggests that we could do better? Finally, do you really believe that two "defensive" or "stay-at-home" pairings out of three are the best option in today's NHL?
I eagerly await your detailed reply.
Internazionale
Registered User
TomasHertlsRooster
Don’t say eye test when you mean points
Kevin, I would like to hear why you think Heed is not as strong in his own zone. You treat this as fact and treat us as absolute idiots when we disagree. Forget about offense. What makes DeMelo a better option, defensively, than Heed? And, with regards to whatever makes DeMelo a better option, defensively: why is that more important than Heed allowing 1.1 less goals, 3 less high danger scoring chances, 5 less shots on goal, etc. than DeMelo, when both are with Dillon?
TomasHertlsRooster
Don’t say eye test when you mean points
Please don’t forget to mention that Heed and Dillon were also a significantly better pairing at limiting goals against.
Kurz loves to make fun of us nerds because we like advanced stats. So let’s not forget that Heed with Dillon was significantly better at limiting the statistic by which the winner of the game is determined than DeMelo was with Dillon.
LA Shark
Hello Darkness My Old Freind
Ya but PDB plays Demelo over Heed, so were all obviously wrong lol
Also was the fact that Demelo is a larger human being than Heed really used a pro for Demelo? Roman Polak is a much larger man than Erik Karlsson, who cares. Heed brings more to the ice than Demelo and put up much better stats as a pairing with Demelo. Also why is the fact that he is a weapon on the PP thrown out the window?
Also was the fact that Demelo is a larger human being than Heed really used a pro for Demelo? Roman Polak is a much larger man than Erik Karlsson, who cares. Heed brings more to the ice than Demelo and put up much better stats as a pairing with Demelo. Also why is the fact that he is a weapon on the PP thrown out the window?
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Led Zappa
Tomorrow Today
DeBoer chose a known quantity while heading towards and fighting for a PO spot. You don't play a player based on potential in that case. I expect head to get his chance again this year. He's only played 29 games in the NHL (+1 the year before excluded, since it's irrelevant), so I completely understand why DeBoer didn't put his eggs in the Head basket.
I expect Heed to get his chance again this year and hopefully he shines enough to bump DeMelo down to 7.
I expect Heed to get his chance again this year and hopefully he shines enough to bump DeMelo down to 7.
Fistfullofbeer
Moderator
I hope you are right LZ but what do you think has changed between last year and this season that you see PDB picking Heed over DeMelo or even giving Heed a fair shot. That is what my concern is. PDB showed favoritism last year and I expect much of the same this year.
I really hope you are right though.
At the very least I’m sure Heed knows what the coaching staff expects him to improve. If he can improve on his failings, his other positives could mean Demelo sits. It’s really up to Heed now to do what is necessary to get himself back in the lineup.
Dicdonya
Registered User
- Jul 21, 2011
- 4,441
- 2,588
Not sure if you’ll be back to respond but I’ll throw my opinion your way anyways.
First off, where’s your proof Heed is not strong in his zone? Every single shot suppression metric shows that Heed was 1st or 2nd on the team. He allowed the least CA,FA,SA,SCA,HDCA at ES per/60, of any D-man on the team. Now you could argue he had butter soft zone starts which helped him out, but if he were so terrible in his own zone, I’d expect to see some indication of that even in easy minutes.
He was also among the top on the team in every shot generation metric, behind only Burns, and his partners who benefitted from Burns.
Demelo did outproduce Heed at ES, but Heed was able to get enough points on the PP to outscore Demelo at all strengths. Since our second PP is/was seriously hurting from having no QB on it, and Heed had shown great promise in that area before getting benched, many want him back for that purpose. We have 5 of 6 defenseman on this team whom are Defense oriented to varying degrees. We want another offense focused defenseman so Burns isn’t the only threat from the point ever.
Why do you seem fixated on the “physical” part of Demelo’s game? He throws more hits then Heed for sure, but way less than Dillon, who is truely a physical Defenseman. Demelo throws plenty of hits but also gets hit far more than anyone on the team. This leads to lots of panicked passes, or loss of possession from being knocked off the puck. Heed blocks more pucks than Demelo too, while also getting far more takeaways than Demelo. So while Demelo plays a more physical game, Heed plays defense with his stick, instead of by checking. Polak was a super physical D-man too, would you argue he is/was better than Heed as well?
On top of it all, Heed had the second lowest PDO of the defenseman, which indicates he should/would improve from his already solid numbers.
In conclusion, I agree Demelo gets more shit than he deserves, however Heed has far better advanced stats, Dillon did with him as well, and I personally want more than a single offense focused Dman on the team, so our 2nd PP unit actually has a presence from the point.
TomasHertlsRooster
Don’t say eye test when you mean points
Me: Man, Kevin Kurz sure is paid by this team. Nobody who isn’t paid by the team would be this blindly defensive of DeMelo and the poor coaching decisions that involved him playing over Heed all season.
Led Zappa:
How on earth was DeMelo a known quantity? He had played 25 games in the prior season and had like ~15 when Heed had ~25 and got perma-scratched out of nowhere. Neither one was a proven quantity, but when they did play, Heed was clearly better.
Led Zappa:
How on earth was DeMelo a known quantity? He had played 25 games in the prior season and had like ~15 when Heed had ~25 and got perma-scratched out of nowhere. Neither one was a proven quantity, but when they did play, Heed was clearly better.
Heck, I don't like either in the Demelo-Dillon pairing. Both are overpaid for bottom six roles.
Led Zappa
Tomorrow Today
My best guess is that DeBoer didn't trust heed to be able to handle the rest of the season and playoffs physically or mentally on a team that had high hopes. How many coaches would? Heed was essentially a rookie and not head and shoulders above DeMelo. I don't know that it's a difference, but DeBoer or any coach is far more likely to give a young player a chance early in the season before it becomes crunch time. That gives Heed more experience and another chance to prove himself.
I mean, DeBoer could have him on his shit list for all I know, but you'd think he'd be gone or gone shortly if that were the case.
We'll see.
Led Zappa
Tomorrow Today
AgentCooper
Registered User
Yeah, that's absurd. Deciding in December which #6 defenseman you're going to ride for the rest of the season is absurd.
My step mom has Alzheimer's and my step sister Googles stuff and uses it to argue with the specialists treating her mother. I think of that most everytime I read the fancy stats-based arguments on this site.
That isn't to say that the casual fan may not occasionally have inights that hockey professionals don't, but let's get real.
That isn't to say that the casual fan may not occasionally have inights that hockey professionals don't, but let's get real.
Led Zappa
Tomorrow Today
Fistfullofbeer
Moderator
Yep. That looks like a real fair comparison.
one2gamble
Registered User
- Dec 24, 2007
- 17,005
- 7,994
He answered. It's because he's "bigger and more physical" not that he can act play defense or get the puck out of his own zone. Dilly is so good he's the attacker with a pulled goalie. That's how good he is!
Beethovens 10th
du bist ein ungeduldiges Eichhörnchen!
I think, if I’m understanding him correctly, he’s saying that Demelo has Alzheimer’s, and we’re his step sister, and Doug Wilson is chief of staff at the brain institute. So Kurz works in medical billing, and Burke is another patient who they gave a job to cause he can’t cover his deductible. Demelo does play the game like he has some kind of debilitating brain disease, but if we’re his step sister then wouldn’t we be advocating for Dylan not detracting? And where’s Heed? In quarantine?
I’m lost.
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