Books: The Winds of Winter: Three quarters had been written in 12 years

[alko]

With all this prequels, sequels ... of HBO fantasy serie Games of Thrones i was curious, how it looks with the final novel of the serie A Song of Ice and Fire by American writer George R. R. Martin.

Last info is from October 2022: During an appearance on the October 25, 2022, episode of The Late Show with Stephen Colbert, Martin said that approximately three quarters of The Winds of Winter had been written.

Do you believe, we will see this novel?

Click to read more...

 

[SepticFish]

the final novel of the serie A Song of Ice and Fire by American writer George R. R. Martin.

It's not even the final one. Winds of Winter is book 6 of 7. A Dream of Spring will be the last one. I think there's a decent chance of Winds of Winter coming out, but very slim chances of Dream of Spring unless he's been quietly writing both at the same time.

 

[trojansoilers]

If GRRM has most of the plot points already outlined, he might as well just let ChatGPT spit out the rest.
He's developing yet another spinoff, so it's not like he has more time on his hands now.

 

[NyQuil]

Hire Brandon Sanderson.

 

[Il Stugotz]

Hire Brandon Sanderson.

Barf. I'd rather read a compilation of GRMM's notes and outlines. Ashaya and Aziz from History of Westeros can annotate them, and we'll be able to put the story together; we just won't get Martin's prose.

 

[NyQuil]

Barf. I'd rather read a compilation of GRMM's notes and outlines. Ashaya and Aziz from History of Westeros can annotate them, and we'll be able to put the story together; we just won't get Martin's prose.

Another history book. Joy.

 

[MadDevil]

I've just accepted that he's never going to finish the books. I'll be pleasantly surprised if we even get Winds of Winter.

 

[Teemu]

We'll probably see WoW, but it will be the last. Martin probably had more influence on the show ending than he lets on and I think the reaction to it was a pretty big personal blow.

 

[NyQuil]

We'll probably see WoW, but it will be the last. Martin probably had more influence on the show ending than he lets on and I think the reaction to it was a pretty big personal blow.

Well, the pacing was absolutely horrendous.

The actual events don't bother me as much as the speed. It was impossible to appreciate the gravity because they just went from one death to the next as fast as possible.

 

[Cas]

I don't think he has any idea how to finish, because he let himself get distracted by trivia ("what's outside the map") and didn't treat writing like a job, so he never properly plotted.

 

[RandV]

Barf. I'd rather read a compilation of GRMM's notes and outlines. Ashaya and Aziz from History of Westeros can annotate them, and we'll be able to put the story together; we just won't get Martin's prose.

Sanderson was great for finishing Robert Jordan's work but has enough projects going on now, and wouldn't be the right fit here regardless. If someone other than GRRM is going to finish A Song of Ice and Fire it will be Daniel Abraham and Ty Frank, who go by the pen name James S. A. Corey and wrote The Expanse series.

One of them are already good friends with GRRM, and they certainly styled their series similar to ASoIF with a focus on realism and a the story told from a variety of different character PoV's. The only challenge is how well they can shift from a future space fairing society to historical feudalism.

 

[MVP of West Hollywd]

“I think there are two types of writers, the architects and the gardeners. The architects plan everything ahead of time, like an architect building a house. They know how many rooms are going to be in the house, what kind of roof they're going to have, where the wires are going to run, what kind of plumbing there's going to be. They have the whole thing designed and blueprinted out before they even nail the first board up. The gardeners dig a hole, drop in a seed and water it. They kind of know what seed it is, they know if planted a fantasy seed or mystery seed or whatever. But as the plant comes up and they water it, they don't know how many branches it's going to have, they find out as it grows. And I'm much more a gardener than an architect.”"

- GRRM

I think George RR didn't have the whole thing plotted out from the start and rather just kept watering the plants. As a result his characters are now far apart and he can't really figure out how to make it come together.

 

[x Tame Impala]

“I think there are two types of writers, the architects and the gardeners. The architects plan everything ahead of time, like an architect building a house. They know how many rooms are going to be in the house, what kind of roof they're going to have, where the wires are going to run, what kind of plumbing there's going to be. They have the whole thing designed and blueprinted out before they even nail the first board up. The gardeners dig a hole, drop in a seed and water it. They kind of know what seed it is, they know if planted a fantasy seed or mystery seed or whatever. But as the plant comes up and they water it, they don't know how many branches it's going to have, they find out as it grows. And I'm much more a gardener than an architect.”"

- GRRM

I think George RR didn't have the whole thing plotted out from the start and rather just kept watering the plants. As a result his characters are now far apart and he can't really figure out how to make it come together.

All well and good but you have to finish your work. I'd love to read the books but I know i most likely never will because the series isn't going to finish.

 

[RandV]

All well and good but you have to finish your work. I'd love to read the books but I know i most likely never will because the series isn't going to finish.

Something that I repeat often, but the problem is using his analogy after gardening for so long he's no trying to cram the garden into an architect structure to finish the series and it just gridlocks him. In comparison Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time series hit a similar issue with way too many plotlines, but rather than gridlocking himself he just kept cranking out books at a similar pace, albeit of lower quality, eventually bringing the story to conclusion.

This in my opinion is what GRRM should have done. Rather than trying to perfectly fit all the unwieldly plotlines into two final perfect books, just keep 'gardening' cranking out a book every 3 or so years till the series is done.

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

Do you believe, we will see this novel?

No.

I wish he had just admitted he didn't want to finish them in written form a decade ago.

 

[RobBrown4PM]

Sanderson was great for finishing Robert Jordan's work but has enough projects going on now, and wouldn't be the right fit here regardless. If someone other than GRRM is going to finish A Song of Ice and Fire it will be Daniel Abraham and Ty Frank, who go by the pen name James S. A. Corey and wrote The Expanse series.

One of them are already good friends with GRRM, and they certainly styled their series similar to ASoIF with a focus on realism and a the story told from a variety of different character PoV's. The only challenge is how well they can shift from a future space fairing society to historical feudalism.

+100 for Dan and Ty.

Daniel is an amazing author, and Ty is an A list world builder and brought life to the world that Abraham put to paper.

I believe Dan worked as an assistant or editor on a number of projects with George. Don't quote me on that, but I'm pretty certain that's how his roles were described to me. And to this day, George throws praise his and Ty's way when ever he get's the chance.

 

[Bures Elbow]

Honestly, I believe he should have done the 5 year time jump as he initially planned.

Secondly, I think it's clear that some things for his initial ending were not well received, and he's decided to change a couple plot points.

I need to see Reeks redemption, I want to see Sansa and Jon reunite, and Sansa become a master chess player in the game as she was slowly becoming one ( and not ham fisted like in the HBO series), I want Stannis to destroy Ramsey in the battle of the frozen lake, and I want to see the reaction of Typrion/Dany/ Sir Barristan to the Greyjoy fleets arrival (in the published WOW chapter Typrion intially thinks it's Rob Stark sending an envoy to help Dany and usher in an alliance...which is so tragic and hits hard because you think WHAT IF....)

 

[JackSlater]

I do think that Winds of Winter will get published, and I look forward to reading it. I would be shocked to see him actually conclude the series though. If he can narrow things and at least have the storylines pointed in their final direction I'll be content even though I won't be thrilled.

The problem with the way the show ended over the last several seasons is how mindlessly it marched through the story, with things poorly laid out and a very clear effort at fan service and "moments" rather than a good story. The how was the problem, not the what. For instance I expect that the bullet points of Stannis' story will be the same (other than the battle against the Boltons), except he will be presented in a much more heroic light in the book. Danaerys' actions in the show make perfect sense based on what the book has shown and is trending toward. Dorne may be pointless in the grand scheme of things, but it is at least interesting in the books.

 

[Rpenny]

With all this prequels, sequels ... of HBO fantasy serie Games of Thrones i was curious, how it looks with the final novel of the serie A Song of Ice and Fire by American writer George R. R. Martin.

Last info is from October 2022: During an appearance on the October 25, 2022, episode of The Late Show with Stephen Colbert, Martin said that approximately three quarters of The Winds of Winter had been written.

Do you believe, we will see this novel?

nope. We will see another writer take over the writing

 

[Seattle King]

If I was George and I actually cared about the books at this point, I would have written them already just to be done with it and have the readers off my back. It would be worth it to just take a year and get it done so all that is in the rear-view mirror and I could proceed with other projects unencumbered.
George is a morbidly obese old man who will not be alive much longer. He will not finish the books because he doesnt care enough anymore. Why, I dont know.
Each time he says he is going to finish them, he shows up a couple weeks later with some other tangential project.
Writing is about making choices, and George is well known as a writer who has great difficulty making choices. The length of his texts shows this. George looks like he has made the choice to quit.
George's publisher, who must be thrilled with how this has all played out, must have someone ready to take it over and is probably hoping George dies soon so they can get someone who wants to write on the job.

 

[Jumptheshark]

If I was George and I actually cared about the books at this point, I would have written them already just to be done with it and have the readers off my back. It would be worth it to just take a year and get it done so all that is in the rear-view mirror and I could proceed with other projects unencumbered.
George is a morbidly obese old man who will not be alive much longer. He will not finish the books because he doesnt care enough anymore. Why, I dont know.
Each time he says he is going to finish them, he shows up a couple weeks later with some other tangential project.
Writing is about making choices, and George is well known as a writer who has great difficulty making choices. The length of his texts shows this. George looks like he has made the choice to quit.
George's publisher, who must be thrilled with how this has all played out, must have someone ready to take it over and is probably hoping George dies soon so they can get someone who wants to write on the job.

depends on who you want to believe. GRRM says we are "shit out of luck" if he dies while publishers say that if he dies, they can hire a writer to finish it

 

[SPV]

It seems pretty obvious that he’s never going to finish this series. Based off the reactions to the television series, I would make never want to finish it either. There’s a much better than average chance that more people are going to hate the ending regardless of what happens.

 

[K Fleur]

He’s been saying shit like this for 10 years now. IDk my feelings on the series as a whole is that it’s just ok.

First 3 books vary from good to great and then last 2 books were just world building drivel.

 

[NyQuil]

He’s been saying shit like this for 10 years now. IDk my feelings on the series as a whole is that it’s just ok.

First 3 books vary from good to great and then last 2 books were just world building drivel.

You mean you don't want to see a Quentyn Martell spinoff series?

 

[K Fleur]

You mean you don't want to see a Quentyn Martell spinoff series?

It’s been awhile but;

I remember chapters in Feast for Crows about somebody named Oakheart and some Dornish princess that by the time they were done it was such a waste of time that it had to have been GRRM just f***ing with everybody.