LastWordArmy
Registered User
Canucks have some minor league depth on the way.
http://lastwordonhockey.com/2017/11/06/vancouver-canucks-boast-options-in-minors/
http://lastwordonhockey.com/2017/11/06/vancouver-canucks-boast-options-in-minors/
The Utica Comets Thread
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Billy Kvcmu
Registered User
Damn! A straight forward blind as a bat GM!!
Have no problem with that philosophy on Goldobin.
However, he has done nothing to address the dire need for centers on his club as well as figure out a way to address the Veteran overstock that is robbing both young and old players of adequate ice time and it is the major reason the "team can't gel." They can't gel because they never ice the same team two games in a row and the lines are rearranged almost on a nightly basis. No chemistry can form on that kind of a merry-go-round.
Ever the optimist. When have the Canucks not had a rash of injuries?
Cull is partially the reason they have not yet gelled. He is the one sending out a different lineup every night. He's also the one jockeying the lines every night. Cohesion occurs with familiarity. Chemistry on lines develops as players come to know the nuances and styles of the the guys they work with every day at practice and every game they play together. This allows for the intuitive interactions you see develop between line mates. How they seem "to know where the other guy is going to be" or how they "know to go to a spot and the puck will be there". How you marvel when you see a guy throw a non look pass to a guy no one can believe he saw and that guy scores. He didn't see him. They just know which ever of them gets to that puck that the other will go to the area where the puck is going to be passed. They have practiced and planned for just such an occasion. That kind of stuff doesn't happen when you have 6 different line mates in 5 games time.
This isn't all Cull's fault because he was dealt a roster with an overload of vets he feels he has to give ice. Thus, he keeps scratching them in some semblance of order to keep them all fresh by playing as much as possible while being fair in sitting most of them a game here and there. So they are kind of fresh, but not sharp due to the lack of consistency in who they play with. The Comets have a GM and the Canucks have the main man. Between the 2 of them they need to figure out a way to lower the number of vets and in doing so acquire a couple of competent offensive minded centers who can keep up with the speed and game sense of the wingers. These two issues will bog down the efforts of this team all season and prevent the results you so "bullishly believe" will happen. Can't compete with the best without a consistent lineup and centers better than Bancks (a wing), Darcy (an ECHL place holder), Woods ( a banger, crasher, energy type 4th line AHL plug much lower on the food chain than Bancks and Hamilton), Cassels (soon to be a never was), and MacEwen (a rookie nowhere near accepting the responsibility of a #2 and probably not even a #3 job at center. He is on a wing and learning the pro game out there where the responsibilities are way less critical than in the middles. Not sure he ever becomes a pro center. He has the body, skill set, and mentality of a power forward.).
Until this is done there, will be a lot of frustration on this team as the guys struggle to achieve a goal they see ahead that will always ends up just out of reach.
They will be around .500 when they know they should be better. The key to success or somewhere shy of the brass ring will lie in the solution or failure to address these two major problems. Carrying on all season like a long playoff run is in the picture will end in disappointment. No team with a roster as talented, but as equally mismanaged as this one currently is can compete with the top teams who have a solid day to day roster filling in a gap when it arises with their depth players and sporting an actual group of real centers who are both scoring goals and feeding assists to scoring line mates will blow right past the talent laden players working more on their own due to the missing parts rather than the well tuned units they should have become.
This isn't a typical minor league problem that the team has to live with. This is a problem created by a failure to recognize simplistic concepts that every hockey mind should recognize.
A team needs 4 legitimate centers to compete. First you look at the big club and address the position there. Then you go down the list and make sure you have 4 on the farm, at least two of whom can be adequate space savers for the big club if needed. The farm is first constructed from players coming back, next you look to your new prospects that are eligible for the AHL, next you comb the NHL free agent market of tweener players that NHL clubs are giving up on, then you scour the list of AHL free agents. You can also check the rost3rwse of the European teams for a player you may be able to entice to come back to or come over to NA to play on the farm with a possible opportunity to get an NHL look. You HAVE to be able to find 4 legit centers this way. If you get to the final AHL roster and only have ONE, this is an example of gross mismanagement and no rational explanation for it can be given.
The next issue is the vets. As an NHL GM you first have to construct your own team. In doing such you also KNOW that all the people in your camp can't make the roster. You have X number of players that you have signed to contracts either 1-way or 2-way. There are those not old enough to play in the AHL. Figure that out as quickly as possible and know who you are going to send back to JRs. There shouldn't be more than one or two at the most that you would give a shot to make the big club. Jrs. taken care of.
Now you know exactly which contracted guys you have left that will need to be distributed between the NHL and the AHL teams. You want to make sure you stock the farm with adequate value in potential call-ups, vets and top prospects, as well as provide spots for your remaining prospects. You also know the lesser prospects can be assigned to your ECHL team.
You must be aware of the AHL rules when constructing your NHL roster. If you create an NHL team with vets left over that you will try to pass through waivers to send to use as potential call-ups that is normal. What is not normal is to fail to look at what vets are already under contract to your farm and thus create a farm team with so many veterans that a log jam is created and you have to sit 3, 4 or more vets every game due to the AHL rules on veteran players. This will, hurt the vets you are trying to keep playing in order to be sharp when re-called. Turning around and signing more vet UFAs up top causing more of a log jam of vets becomes ridiculous unless you are prepared to trade a few off to correct the issue.
Vancouver did not handle this wisely in any of the situations above and created this mess for themselves. They had An NHL GM, a former NHL GM, and a newly appointed AHL GM and together the 3 of them didn't see this coming? Either a combined brain trust = to moron or a top dog that just plain didn't give a **** caused this outcome. The latter is where I stand. It's still fixable and now the job of the AHL GM to earn his keep. He will have to run any plans past Vancouver, but he can and must get something done to right the ship.
UticaHockey
Registered User
Your assumptions are that Benning and Johnson failed to assemble a roster that can win regularly because it has too many vets and lacks quality centers. But maybe they had no intentions of putting together an AHL roster to win games but rather a place to store extra depth in the form of older veterans to be called up as injury replacements. Cull's job under that premise is to keep the vets in game shape in case a recall is needed. Not every NHL parent team makes winning in the AHL a priority. A lot of Canucks fans felt like the Comets were stacked and should be Calder Cup favorites but I never bought into that hype because the roster was poorly constructed and I don't believe winning is a priority for Benning.
I couldn't agree more with you that Benning doesn't believe winning is a priority and deeply believe that was the philosophical difference that got Henning fired. I also believe, and it's not backed by any proof just my gut feeling, that Benning is such an egotist that having an AHL GM that could build a Calder Cup contender from the dregs he was dealt in 2013-14 in 2 seasons made Jim feel challenged, especially since Jim had announced that he was building a contender and in the same time frame was sitting near the bottom of the entire NHL. It could be reasoned after another brutal finish last season and after acquiring a handful of good players for the farm that the same possibility of AHL success exists once again. Thus, he didn't break his ass to surround those few with a lot of support in order to limit their possible accomplishments as a team. The individual can prosper (a la Goldobin, Boucher, Demko, and Holm), but the team on a whole will have its problems due to the missing links. He knew there were no play making centers here and he did nothing to rectify the problem. It's a conspiracy theory I admit, but one with a whole lot umph behind it. If it wasn't a plan then it is evidence of a different suggestion, STUPIDITY.
Anyways, the stocking of vets at the AHL level, that I did state in my post you quoted, is a norm. The majority of AHL teams try to do that and we see it early on in preseason as all the teams waive vets all at once and seem to almost have an unwritten rule to just let it go. Note that not all of these guys are considered vets by the NHL veteran rules, e.g. Gaunce. These guys along with top prospects comprise the pools that the NHL team can draw from. However, the AHL team also has a couple top notch AHL level players in that mix as well to mesh with those previously mentioned players to create a semblance of a team. That usually means 4-6 centers and 8-10 wings that usually total around 16 forwards (Utica currently has 17 forwards) from which 4 game day lines can be drawn up. The rest become the backups and reserves. The D-corps usually has 8 or 9. Utica currently has only 7.
Megna was returned today raising Utica's vet #s back to 8.
Edler is going on the road trip and is expected to return at some point giving the Canucks 8 D and when Stecher comes back that will be 9! So, to start Wierciochmight be returned to Utica's vet corps because they have been going with 7, but they can keep all 8 and he could remain.
Theoretically, when Stecher returns the Vancouver D # would hit 9 and a demotion definitely occurs. You guess who, but unless it's Pouliot, it would be vet # 9/10 depending on how many D the Canucks want to keep sitting. I assume definitely Wiercioch now if he is still there and the Canucks will keep 8 to go with their 13 forwards. No reason to subject any of the 8 remaining to waivers. This would give Utica 9 vets.
EDIT - Looks like Pouliot, though not a vet by AHL rules, would have to pass through waivers to come down just like Biega.
Eriksson is due to return around the same time and if no forwards are on IR at the time, the Comets will get another player and unless Vancouver wishes to part with Gaunce or Jake it will be yet another veteran (Burmistrov?) making vet #10. There is only one expendable Canuck forward who can go up and down without waiver issues and that's Jake. What a furor sending Jake down would cause.
This will put 4 vets in the stands every night Utica plays. 3 was bad enough, but 4??? Jake and Pouliot would reduce the # to 8 and only 2 would be sitting every night. I don't see that happening so the number would stand at 10 vets and 4 in the stands.
A call-up of a non vet could mean another vet would come down unless he's an injury call-up.
I don't care if Benning was stocking vets for recall or not, there will be no other team in the AHL carrying 10 vets on their roster. I have a real good feeling you aren't going to find many, if any, with 9 either. Why not? Because no NHL GM, even if he has to be nudged by his AHL facsimile, is that out of touch with reality. It is just plain STUPID and there is no other word to define it.
EDIT - The numbers in this post have been adjusted with a revised read through in which I mistakenly counted 9 D upon Edler's return when it fact it will only be 8 and 8 D and 13 forwards requires no demotions. Stecher and Eriksson require demotions as long as the 21 already accounted for are still healthy. That could raise the vets in Utica to 10.
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UticaHockey
Registered User
Red
Registered User
Pretty sure Pouliot has to go through waivers. He's been playing fine anyway and should not be sent down.
You would be correct on waivers. I was hung up on the fact he would not be another veteran according to AHL rules.
If you are correct and he won't be sent down, that would mean if Edler and Stetcher get back before any other D-man is injured the Canucks will need to send down 2 D-men and both would be vets. The first will be very soon in the person of Wiercioch when Edler returns.
Agree. I did say that 9 was the best possibility and just followed it through to the farthest possible extreme.
However, the number is not likely to go down much lower than that because the vets just rotate around in their call-ups and if a younger guy like Goldy is called up the Comets vet situation doesn't change, but their loss of a non vet would actually result in them being shorthanded.
Megna already makes 8 today and if we see Edler in a few days, we might get to 9.
It just depends on how soon the other 2 come back. Everyone was 4-6 weeks and their injuries fell one after another like week to week and Edler is ready. Edler, Stecher, and Eriksson with the rest all healthy puts 10 vets in Utica.
The extreme, while unlikely, is definitely possible.
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I just think Benning is not a good GM. He kinda gets the big picture, but all the small mistakes are killing him.
We are now on our 3rd season with problems at center.
Giving contracts to players with no hope at even the AHL level... My God how many scrubs can one guy sign?? Carcone, Laplant, Stewart, Molino, the list goes on and on....
Happy hazard signings of fringe NHL players, that creates the vet problem in Utica. Would have been better off signing younger players with upside.
Just something is wrong with how they go about stuff... It's fairly obvious that the AHL squad is an after thought, but it is where you develop your talent.
TomWillander1RD
Registered User
- Jul 21, 2004
- 799
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I disagree. He's one of the worst GMs in the history of the game who doesn't even get the big picture.
I don't know.. There are a couple of GM's that I really wouldn't like to have.
Bergevin comes up in my mind. He has decimated his own line up from one of the top Canadian teams to what seems like the worst Canadian team in the space of a year. I don't this guy at all.
And I may be wrong, but didn't Colorado have Paul Statsny, ROR, Duchene and Mackinnon the year Mac got drafted? Looking at these guys, thats like 4 #1C or at least borderline. If I remember correctly they had just got out of a retool and made the playoffs. Look at them now, they fell off so quickly and are now entering a rebuild. Haven't liked many of Sakic' moves. Prefer Benning to Sakic for sure.
He has made small mistakes for sure. But a couple of them were very reasonable gambles. Others were just ridiculous, still don't understand why we got Vey back then in the first place...
A lot of Benning's moves are for the future and we won't see them in effect until much later in the future.
Gaudette, Goldobin, Lind and Gadjovich should spend some time in Utica. There's a chance Dahlen and Pettersson come over too. Pettersson to get used to playing center, and Dahlen because we may not have a spot for him next year.
Molino and Carcone did not work out but they were free agents and getting them didn't really hurt us much. We can have another go at some guys at the end of this season.
Bergevin comes up in my mind. He has decimated his own line up from one of the top Canadian teams to what seems like the worst Canadian team in the space of a year. I don't this guy at all.
And I may be wrong, but didn't Colorado have Paul Statsny, ROR, Duchene and Mackinnon the year Mac got drafted? Looking at these guys, thats like 4 #1C or at least borderline. If I remember correctly they had just got out of a retool and made the playoffs. Look at them now, they fell off so quickly and are now entering a rebuild. Haven't liked many of Sakic' moves. Prefer Benning to Sakic for sure.
He has made small mistakes for sure. But a couple of them were very reasonable gambles. Others were just ridiculous, still don't understand why we got Vey back then in the first place...
A lot of Benning's moves are for the future and we won't see them in effect until much later in the future.
Gaudette, Goldobin, Lind and Gadjovich should spend some time in Utica. There's a chance Dahlen and Pettersson come over too. Pettersson to get used to playing center, and Dahlen because we may not have a spot for him next year.
Molino and Carcone did not work out but they were free agents and getting them didn't really hurt us much. We can have another go at some guys at the end of this season.
UticaHockey
Registered User
Boucher was called up today which makes the Comets veteran problem even worse since he was the only veteran exempt player on the Comets roster. BG will not be happy about this one.
Yup. He makes 21 healthy skaters in Vancouver (14 forwards/7 D) so not only do we lose one, but no comes back and top it off with his VE status the Comets can only dress 5 vets.
Last game:
? (was Boucher)/Bancks (vet)/Rodin (vet)
LaBate/Cassels/MacEwen
Molino/Chaput (vet)/D'Aoust
Goldobin/Gaunce/Archibald (vet)
Megna (vet) was returned earlier in the week and can pencil in for Boucher and that's it for vets.
That removes the one vet who has been superb on D, Sifers.
Cull can sit Megna and play Sifers, but that means one of Laplante or Woods moves into the forward 12. I'd take my chances with a young 6 D for Wednesday and see how it works out. Not so hot? Then Sifers goes back in Friday and maybe Carcone is recovered from his bout with the plague (hasn't practiced so it will be on of Laplante or Woods. They are the only extra forwards until Carcone and Darcy are healthy. Personally I don't consider the whole bunch equal to one good player and Molino is in the lineup already and he's no better if not worse than a couple of them.
Put simply, the fringe Comets
Molino
Laplante
Woods
Darcy
are no better than the best of the PTO army that played here in '15-16 with Carcone just a shallow notch above the rest.
You have stated it, "go comets" has, and I have also. This team is not very good beyond it's Top 6 (Goldobin, Boucher, Chaput, Rodin, Archibald, Megna (the play of #6 questions his membership in the group) as to even belonging in the group) and now 1 of them is gone and the cavalry (Gaunce) is gone as well.
The best after that is Bancks and LaBate. I'll give the 2 rookies (MacEwen and D'Aoust) plaudits for their efforts, but they are not standouts by any means.
The best the Comets can hope for is that bottom 6 plays well enough to not get scored on and stays out of the box. If they pot one every now and then, great. The idea that this team was going to be comprised of 4 strong lines resulting in an offensive dynamo was delusional pipe dream. 2 members of that pipe dream are playing very well in Vancouver, Boeser and Virtanen. What were people thinking when they even suggested Boeser would be assigned to Utica? The projected leader of the defense is also playing a strong role for the 'Nucks, Biega. The experienced forward suggested as a regular down here was Gaunce. He got his 5-game get better stint and he's back in Vancouver.
So some of the demotions took place. They had to. The mix meant to play with them is less than stellar. The goal tending should end up being good. The young D will fluctuate like ripples on a pond from outstanding one minute to holy **** bad the next and play somewhere in between for the most part. It's a team that could finish easily in a play off spot or fight like Hell to sneak in. The Canucks' injury rate will determine that. If the top 6 here is utilized above, the Comets ship will sink like a rock. Even with what they have if the center position is not shored up, it won't matter anyways because they won't be able to compete with the league's best and an early exit would be expected even if they did get in.
Lots of season ahead and lots of time for lots of stuff to happen. We'll just have to wait and see what the future holds.
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DL44
Status quo
Molino looked so promising in his sample of games last yr... I thought with his speed, he would eventually be able to carve out becoming the next Hansen-like utility forward for us... Obviously a LOT of time time left.. but his 0pts in his 6 gms doesn't look good. I know the team has just produced 2.8 g/gm... but...
How has been or not been utilizing his speed? How he's looked?
How has been or not been utilizing his speed? How he's looked?
UticaHockey
Registered User
In the case of Molino the eye test matches his points production. He has been invisible. What little that I've noticed of him is that he looks out of place and would be better served in the ECHL right now.
DL44
Status quo
Eww.. too bad.
Thought we had a diamond in the rough.
Dat speed... then that goal in the rookie tourny.
Maybe he puts it together a bit as the experience increases.
Thanks.
"Dat speed"
I can't remember how many times I saw that word in people's description of this kid's play. In the game of hockey the old axiom, "speed kills" usually holds true. I was really looking forward to seeing a player with that particular attribute. No one in Utica has ever had that term used to define their game.
I followed along in games 1-5 and barely heard mention of his name although he was in the lineup every night. Then he was a healthy scratch in games 6, 7, 8, and 9, I assume because he was invisible in the first 5.
Last Saturday night was his big coming out party. He was to make his debut on home ice before the Comets faithful, another sold out crowd. Okay kid, show me what you got. I'd guess a guy with blazing speed would certainly stand out in a crowd. I waited and I waited. The period ended and no Molino.
I actually lie. He was paired with the team's best center in Chaput and the only kid forward to actually make some kind of real impression having put up the most points by a forward outside of the top 5 (Goldobin, Boucher, Bancks, Archibald, and Chaput). That would be D'Aoust with 4 pts mainly accrued by being on the ice with Boucher or Goldobin or both. Nevertheless he has the points. I noticed Chaput and I noticed D'Aoust. Both had the puck on several occasions and directed it towards the net a few times. Molino was a passenger who never even appeared to have boarded the train. In the second he surfaced one time failing to take a pass fron Chaput at the Rochester blue line. That was it. Never once saw a flashing Malino speeding to do anything.
I have no explanation for you. He was so inconspicuous I can't even critique his game.
He also sat while other players took his wing and eventually Chaput was jumping from line to line in order to attempt to address the center shortage (Poke some more fun of it. Go Ahead. Pretty sad to see Chaput centering Cassels' line of LaBate and MacEwen, taking a rest and coming right back out centering Goldobin and Archi, while Gaunce took a breather after skating a shift on the wing before he came back out centering Rodin and Boucher and then they just bounced around between the 3 lines with the top forwards mixing and matching as well and Gaunce and Bancks took shifts on the wings. The bottom 6 missed a lot of some and eventually 2/3 guys were just flat out benched and the Comets skated 3 lines trying to close out a win in regulation that didn't happen. Took a shootout to seal the deal.
The bottom six on any given night will usually be different than the previous night because Cull is trying to give every one of the lesser people a chance to rise above the rabble. So far only LaBate, D'Aoust, and MacEwen seem to be bent on becoming regular roster players. I'm sure now that Megna is back he will push his way into the top 6.
At this moment I'd say he is holding his own.. He was injured coming out of camp and missed the first 5 games. He has been in the lineup for all 5 since he was activated. Cull is trying to make a fit for him outside of the bottom forwards and thus he has ended up on the following lines:
Archuibald/Woods/Mac
D'Aoust/Mac/Rodin
Bancks/Gaunce/Mac All 3 are centers and all 3 are wings so it was tough to decipher who was actually playing where because they rotated all over the place and all 3 took draws.
Rodin/Gaunce/Mac
LaBate/Cassels/Mac
He skates his *** off and plays physical. He has not been strong on the puck nor has he handled it well. Hew has not been much of an offensive threat. He's a rookie getting his feet wet. You needn't worry about his ascension to the NHL for quite some time.
cc
Registered User
- Feb 28, 2002
- 9,668
- 1,543
they say that true power-forwards take a while to develop so it's to be expected that it'll take some time. Hopefully turns out better than Grenier
Red
Registered User
Comets are getting slaughtered 5-1 halfway through the game. Bachman has let in 5 on 14 shots.
4-2 after 2 periods.... Strong checkers team with lots of prospects making the comets look silly.......
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