Here are 3 posts from page 2 of this thread. 2 of them are mine. Read the first.
#1
8 guys from Chicago to illustrate the Chicago high spending:
Butler @ 350k
Agozzino @ 225k
Malone @ 250k
Ellis 150k
McNeill 150k
Friesen 150k
Ferraro 275k
Carson 250k
Total - $16,500,000
7 guys from the Comets to illustrate the "failure of the Canucks" (according to you) to be willing to pay the $:
Megna 600k
Chaput 225
Bachman 575k
Billins 225k
Nilsson 200k
Rendulic 200k
Grenier 125k
Total - $21,500,000 (To get 8 guys add Pedan or Z who each make $100k)
I'm missing something?
The key is obviously to spend the money on the better guys. The salaries are usually close to commensurate when added up. 2 of the 300k-350k vets (Sanguinetti dollars) would have been better than Megna at $600,000. You could have had 4 Chaput level guys for the price of Megna and Chaput and included Chaput in the mix. Nillson's 200k could have been spent much better. The guy wasn't worth the ELC 70k. There are better D vets at 225k than Billins. Better management (Henning) brings in better players than poor management (??? Weisbrod?, Johnson?)
The Aud holds 3860 and has sold out 88 straight home games.
TODAY'S UPDATE -
Again we see posts stating that Vancouver can't afford to bring in the $ vets because "small market Utica" can't bring in enough profit to merit the expense. This issue was brought up before and Chicago was used as the example then as well. I showed in this post weeks ago that is BS. Vancouver actually actually spent more than Chicago on their vets, but they didn't get the quality that $ should have purchased.
First off, it doesn't matter what Utica makes because it is incumbent upon Vancouver to provide their prospects with players that are best suited to help them progress. Every team in the NHL knows that is their job and the profit factor of their AHL club is not a factor. It is part of the expense they write into the annual budget in order to facilitate the development of their prospects. If they are taking a huge hit (Vancouver is not. They negotiated a price a Utica has met that $ line every season.), then they have the option to seek another arrangement. Utica has been very good for the Canucks. There has been a total of 1 game where a call-up was not possible on a game day at noonish. I believe it was when the mumps were hitting and this player in question proved not to be game ready due to an injury the night before and WD felt he would be ready and overrode the call to Utica. He would have been there if Willie hadn't opted to wait and see, so Biega played forward. Jimbo is able to cone to Utica when he pleases. He has traveled the globe to watch players, yet you feel he can't get to Utica. Is it a longer ride? Yup. Can he get here for a game on the same day if he leaves in the morning? Yup. Maybe having his guy here for the majority of the games would answer this issue a la Lorne Henning. He was a mainstay in the Utica Aud.
#2
Yes, the job the Canucks have done is an embarrassment and has been ever since they let Henning go.
"But it does take time to build a competent farm team."
The Canucks had a competent farm team in 2014-15. It didn't take them much time to destroy it. It's easier to build a competent farm team in a fairly short time than it is to build an NHL team, because a large part of the success of an AHL team is veteran AHL players who are available as free agents every summer.
"Next year you'll be seeing some players from the 2015 draft."
There isn't a lot of help coming from the 2015 draft.
1st round-Boeser-What do you think the chances are that Benning will keep his shiny new marketing tool in the AHL?
2nd round-no pick
3rd round-Brisebois. At least he's good enough to hope he'll be a competent AHL player as a rookie.
4th round-Zhukenov-There was a rumour posted recently that he'll go to the KHL. Even if he doesn't, he's an undersized forward barely scoring 1 ppg in the QMJHL and is well behind his team's leading scorer-another 2015-4th round pick who has 80 pts and is + 30 in 53 games while Zhukenov has 65 pts and is -17 in 64 games. Of course, in any case a kid may turn out but at this stage it's a question mark whether Zhukenov is worth an NHL contract.
5th round-Carl Neill-scores well but there has been considerable speculation the Canucks won't offer him a contract. He's not expected to be anything special at the AHL level.
-Gaudette-reports have him returning to university next season.
6th round-Lucas Jasek-Canucks may sign him and play him in the AHL. He could be anywhere from hopeless to excellent. So far he's been really good in junior and totally unproductive in the Czech Republic League.
7th round-Tate Olson-probably worth a contract, at least an AHL contract.
The AHL is largely populated by mid and low round picks who are now veterans, with a sprinkling of free agents and a few higher round picks. Wilkes-Barre has two former first rounders playing on defence. That group coming in from the 2015 draft may not be hopeless but it isn't anything special, either. Much as NHL fans love to watch the prospects on the AHL team, the new rookies don't play as much of a role as they can in the NHL. The best drafted players jump from junior to the NHL, either as 18 or 19 year olds, so the rookies that the AHL gets are generally 20+ years old and not better than the AHL vets.
TODAY'S UPDATE
Laet's take a look at this list.
1- Boeser. People are saying with the recent free agent signings that Boeser will start the season in Utica. I don't believe for a second that Jimbo will let his shiniest new toy get out of Vancouver. He will sell tickets. If he is here, it will be another Stecher moment. A handful of games, Vancouver injury or not, and he'll be a Canuck.
He is a 1st rounder and he is older, so if he makes the roster, it would be understandable.
My opinion. No Comets.
2- doesn't exist. No Comets.
3- Brisebois will make the Comets.
4- Zhukenov has signed in Russia. No Comets.
5- Carl Neill won't be offered a contract. No Comets.
6- Jasek has signed to play in the Czech Republic. No Comets.
7- Tate Olson won't be offered a contract. No Comets.
Well that list worked out well. 1/7 with an extreme wild card floating in the wind.
#3
Look. I don't know what anyone is trying to prove here. An AHL team can't play more than 6 veterans in a game. A veteran is a player who has logged 261 games in any combination of AHL, NHL, or European pro leagues (ECHL does not count) as of the date of the first game of the season. If it's 260 on day 1, his veteran status won't start until the next season. The amount of money that can be spent on those vets is usually influenced by the number of prospects that team has as they make 70k max and many make less. Thus, the more prospects you have the more you can spend on the rest if your management is pinching pennies. If they are not squeezing every dollar there is no ceiling on what they can pay players.
When you have few prospects and your 6 vets the rest come from tweener aged players. They have used up their ELCs, but are still signed as RFAs a la Zalewski, Grenier, and Pedan. Then you have those who have been discarded by the parent club, Archibald, or other teams and get picked up as free agents. Then there are the unsigned guys who are not vets, but get signed to SPC AHL contracts like Valk. Lastly you have the cheaper vets like Hamilton and Bancks who get SPC AHL contracts as role players who also help guys to understand what being a pro entails.
All of these types not under contract to the parent club are available every summer as most only get one-yr contracts. The NHL teams who deem the farm as important to their organization as both a development program and depth for themselves seek the best they can acquire. It is that simple. It's not hard to build a team you simply have to want to do it and hire someone to get it done and then oversee it throughout the season, assess the talent, and fill in needs where they arise. Thus, Toronto recently went out and acquired O'Reilly because they were desperate for a center. Benning acknowledged the Comets didn't have a play making center months ago and that was hampering Jake's progress, but did nothing to address the issue. That's an example of the difference in those who actually care about the farm vs those who simply have one. Henning did it. Henning was fired. No one has really been all that concerned since. You can color code it and sugar coat it all you want. That's just poor management from the top down, plain and simple.
TODAY'S UPDATE
This is pretty much the same. Most AHL teams have locked up the best vets already. Vancouver has not signed one vet at this moment.
Utica has 2 under contract for this season on the second year of 2-year contracts:
Wacey Hamilton
Carter Bancks
It appears (and Benning could surprise us) that Jim is waiting until camp breaks and it decided who will be cut down to the Comets. If those guys are vets, and pass through waivers they become Utica vets. We know these guys to be Biega, Chaput, Megna, Boucher, Wiercioch, Burmistrov. Pedan does not count as a vet, but will still have to pass as well. Then there's Bachman who as a goalie doesn't count as a vet, but he also has to get through waivers. This happens every season on all NHL teams, but players do get claimed every season. Vancouver has lost a vet in the past 2 seasons when placing them on waivers. No reason it can't happen again.
The point here is that we don't know who will be sent down nor what position they play. With only 2 vets under contract and the good ones disappearing fast, if Jim waits until October to look for AHL vets for the Comets. the closet will be pretty much empty. If he picks up a waived guy and then tries to send him down waivers occur all over again. Boucher was waived by NJ a couple times and NJ took him back again when the teams who claimed him tried to assign him to their AHL club. This is not how you prepare to stock your minor league affiliate.
ADDENDUM
As of now the following guys have been or are now eligible to play in the AHL based on the rules of Canadian Juniors or are U.S. and European players who did not play Canadian juniors.
1 Nikita Tryamkin (22) - Played for the Canucks and refused to report to Utica when asked to go down for a conditioning stint. Opted to re-sign in the KHLafter 1 full NHL season.
2 Gustav Forsling (21) - Traded, but has already played 38 games for the Blackhawks.
3 Thatcher Demko (21) - A Utica Comet.
4 Mackenze Stewart (21) - Sucks. ECHL.
5 Adam Gaudette (20) - NCAA Northeastern, 3rd season.
6 Brock Boeser (20) - Will be pro this season. Some say he will be a Comet. I say he will likely be a Canuck. Would love to be shocked, but the kid is good.
7 Dmitri Zhukenov (20) - KHL
8 Lukas Jasek (19) - Czech Republic
9 Jared McCann (21) - Traded. Has played 99 NHL games.
10 Jake Virtanen - A Utica Comet unless he knocks the sox out of preseason.
11 Kyle Petit (21) - Not given a contract.
12 Carl Neill (21)- Not given a contract.
13 William Lockwood (19) - NCAA Michigan, 2nd season.
14 Rodrigo Abols (21) - SHL
15 Guillaume Brisebois (20) - About to become a Utica Comet.
16 Tate Olson (20) - Not given a contract.
17 Jakob Stukel (20) - Going back to Jrs.
18 Brett McKenzie (20) - Hasn't been offered a contract.
19 Elias Petersson (18) - SHL
20 Kristoffer Gunnarsson (20) - SHL
21 Dominik Lakatos (20) - Czech Republic
22 Jonathan Dahlen (19, but turns 20 in December) - Undecided some say. He has the free pass back to Sweden if he doesn't make the Canucks. I say he takes it.
That's 22 elegible to play in the AHL. Of these 22, 2 were traded and a third opted to leave the team.
That makes 19. The Canucks have opted not to sign 4 of these.
That leaves 15. Two of these are in U.S. universities.
That leaves 14. 2 have elected to remain in the Czech Republic.
That leaves 12. Along with Tryamkin another has opted to play in the KHL.
That leaves 10. One is returning to Jrs.
That leaves 9. One is so bad that if he makes the Comets, it tells us the sorry state of affairs that exist in Utica.
That leaves 8. 3 have apparently elected to play in the SHL though one is stated to maybe be coming over. Right now that's 3 in the SHL.
That leaves 5. Dahlen has a get out of Vancouver free card. If he doesn't make the big club he can just pack his bags and go back to the SHL.
Both Nylanders came straight to the AHL with outs for the world Jrs. They were #1 picks and their talent level was pro quality. Petersson and Dahlen have that quality right now as well. They know the Nylanders and saw what they did. By playing in the AHL at 18 Willie got himself a partial NHL gig at 19 and a full time job at 20. Alex notched 28 points (10 goals) on a far inferior Rochester team than Willie's Toronto Marlies were. Alex looked far from out of place. I see no reason not to get Jonathan and Elias into the NA swing of things right now. Add them to Goldobin, Virtanen, and Boeser, with Megna and Chaput to round out the top 6 and the Comets have something going. Up and coming D in the person of Subban, McEneny, and Brisebois combined with a couple older guys to lock things down and the Comets look like the Marlies did 2 seasons ago and then all these guys move up in a season or two with Gaudette and Lockwood added to the mix next season. I think I'd give Olli one season with his future young team mates. You still have the likes of Gunnarsson, Gadjovich, and Lind among others in the pipeline. This would be a great way to grow the kids while the top club treads water through a rebuild and gets a real good one again in next year's draft to add to the mix for a season. then in 2019-20 you mix them in with Marky, Stecher, Hutton, Horvat, Baertschi, Rodin, and whatever else exists there as a base. Don't know if you want to still have Sutter and Eriksson hanging around, but you will still have to have a few older guys. Tanev would not be out of the question to help out, but he may get them another #1 so we'll have to wait on that one.
Nah, they don't want to do that. Lou Lam, Shanny, and Babcock have no idea what they are doing. Jim has a much better plan.
There are 4 left and only 2 have been Comets to date, Demko and Virtanen.
That leaves 2. Brisebois will be a Comet and Boeser is maybe a 20% chance of being a Comet.
That's 3 players out of the 22 who will be Comets this year, one of whom played for the Canucks at 19 when not ready and is now trying to recover with the Comets after a not so illustrious 1st year in Utica. He's 20 so I haven't quit on him just yet.
This is a pretty poor result form 22 eligible players.
