The Top 20 Red Wings of All-Time, #6

[KJoe88]

Why? Datsyuk played more games for this franchise than everyone on your list.

Better ppg than virtually all those players in that span, as well.

2 Cups, 3 Selke's, and was top 5 player in the league during his peak.

Top five?

IMO, he was the best player in the world for a few years there. I think in time people will realize it. I think him not having 100P seasons deters that sentiment.

An argument can be made for him, and I'm making it as soon as Delvecchio wins this round! Damn it's razor sharp close.

 

[Frk It]

Yeah agreed kozlov>datsyuk AINEC

Based on what, exactly?

 

[Retire91]

Seems like Daytsuk might be suffering the opposite of nostalgia maybe people are biased that its too soon. Guy had such a complete game and probably the best defensive forward in the world most of his career. He brought a dimension to the ice no one had ever seen before. He was voted the greatest player by the NHL players themselves. Has all the necessary hardware and career longevity to back it up. I don't think the argument is outlandish but yeah when you start looking at some of the other names though.

 

[Syckle78]

This 10x

I don't know if it's nostalgia or the fact that Datsyuk just left for KHL but dats is easily in the top 10. It's not absurd to claim that Datsyuk would be on the same level as Lindsay and Delvecchio, especially if you look at the hardware Datsyuk collected as a wing and the cups.

Now i didn't nor would i vote for Datsyuk, at 6 or 7 but he should be a easy lock for 8#.. Like super easy.

Datsyuk 's peak is top 5. 90+ points and winning a selke is absolutely incredible. Don't think people grasp just how rare that is. Datsyuk had a historic two year peak.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Seems like Daytsuk might be suffering the opposite of nostalgia maybe people are biased that its too soon. Guy had such a complete game and probably the best defensive forward in the world most of his career. He brought a dimension to the ice no one had ever seen before. He was voted the greatest player by the NHL players themselves. Has all the necessary hardware and career longevity to back it up. I don't think the argument is outlandish but yeah when you start looking at some of the other names though.

Datsyuk maybe the 10th Red Wing player. I fully expect him to be voted higher but the difference between him and Zetterberg is negligible at best and Z hasn't abandoned the franchise yet...

What Datsyuk just did was far worse than Fedorov and he is half the player..... I know that will be well received, I am well aware people will be really upset. But explain why Datsyuk deserves honest ranking over Goodfellow? He will go higher than he actually deserves. The fact he is getting votes is fairly ridiculous at this point.

Abel, Delvecchio, Lindsay, Goodfellow are all still on the board.

 

[Henkka]

Datsyuk 's peak is top 5. 90+ points and winning a selke is absolutely incredible. Don't think people grasp just how rare that is. Datsyuk had a historic two year peak.

http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/rat...ers&minutes=5000&disp=1&sort=PCT&sortdir=DESC

This kind of tells it all.

From last 9 seasons in NHL, Datsyuk retired as the NHL best Corsi%/Fenwick% player.

Many years on that data is past his prime and without Lidström behind.

What makes Pavel incredible, he has those league-lowest against values in every possible stat. So he sacrificed a lot of point scoring to defence, he could easily score +100 points being a little bit more selfish. But he wasn't that kind of guy. He was a perfect hockey product of Red Wings two-way centerman.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/rat...ers&minutes=5000&disp=1&sort=PCT&sortdir=DESC

This kind of tells it all.

From last 9 seasons in NHL, Datsyuk retired as the NHL best Corsi%/Fenwick% player.

Many years on that data is past his prime and without Lidström behind.

What makes Pavel incredible, he has those league-lowest against values in every possible stat. So he sacrificed a lot of point scoring to defence, he could easily score +100 points being a little bit more selfish. But he wasn't that kind of guy.

Cool with acknowledging that list as long as people realize Johan Franzen is #7, between Toews and Kopitar... Tough to do with all that floating. Really points out to a degree how good he was too. 4 guys in the top 10 on that list.

Also interesting that Cleary and Helm sandwich Duncan Keith just before Patrick Kane on this...

 

[TheMule93]

Cool with acknowledging that list as long as people realize Johan Franzen is #7, between Toews and Kopitar... Tough to do with all that floating. Really points out to a degree how good he was too. 4 guys in the top 10 on that list.

Also interesting that Cleary and Helm sandwich Duncan Keith just before Patrick Kane on this...

Franzen deserves more love. He is my love. He should be everyone's love. He was the hero we needed in the playoffs, but the hero the fans didn't deserve.

 

[RabidBadger]

Datsyuk maybe the 10th Red Wing player. I fully expect him to be voted higher but the difference between him and Zetterberg is negligible at best and Z hasn't abandoned the franchise yet...

What Datsyuk just did was far worse than Fedorov and he is half the player..... I know that will be well received, I am well aware people will be really upset. But explain why Datsyuk deserves honest ranking over Goodfellow? He will go higher than he actually deserves. The fact he is getting votes is fairly ridiculous at this point.

Abel, Delvecchio, Lindsay, Goodfellow are all still on the board.

I don't think Dats leaving would have caused such a stink if not for the 'over 35' idiotic clause on his contract. The split with the team seemed so much less acrimonious than when Federov left town. I think having his contract on the books was the main reason people were so upset.

I'm in agreement with you about his position as an all time Wing. But given the subjectivity of our voting process I'm not surprised people are giving Dats love at this point.

 

[Winger98]

I don't think Dats leaving would have caused such a stink if not for the 'over 35' idiotic clause on his contract. The split with the team seemed so much less acrimonious than when Federov left town. I think having his contract on the books was the main reason people were so upset.

I'm in agreement with you about his position as an all time Wing. But given the subjectivity of our voting process I'm not surprised people are giving Dats love at this point.

Datsyuk has been far easier to like than Sergei. I mean, it seems people have mostly bought the absurd line Holland put out that Datsyuk didn't understand the 35+ rule. People are willing to believe anything about the guy.

 

[Frk It]

Datsyuk maybe the 10th Red Wing player. I fully expect him to be voted higher but the difference between him and Zetterberg is negligible at best and Z hasn't abandoned the franchise yet...

What Datsyuk just did was far worse than Fedorov and he is half the player..... I know that will be well received, I am well aware people will be really upset. But explain why Datsyuk deserves honest ranking over Goodfellow? He will go higher than he actually deserves. The fact he is getting votes is fairly ridiculous at this point.

Abel, Delvecchio, Lindsay, Goodfellow are all still on the board.

I'd have to ask what matters more in these polls, peak or longevity?

Because Datsyuk almost lead the league in points a few years, while Delvechio never even led the Wings in points in any season his whole career (I know he played with Gordie, but still...)

It seems like people were willing to vote Fedorov based on peak, but now it's going back to longevity for some reason? I'd apply the same logic to Pavel even if the peak isn't as high. Yes the half the player comment is absurd, but you don't strike me as much of a Datsyuk guy.

 

[njx9]

I guess the way I've looked at this is: can you tell the story of the Red Wings without mentioning Player X? For instance, there's no way you could talk about the team/team history without mentioning Gordie Howe. I don't think Datsyuk (or Fedorov, for that matter) are as important to that 'story' as Lindsay and Delvecchio. I'd probably have both on the very next tier, though.

 

[Syckle78]

Datsyuk maybe the 10th Red Wing player. I fully expect him to be voted higher but the difference between him and Zetterberg is negligible at best and Z hasn't abandoned the franchise yet...

What Datsyuk just did was far worse than Fedorov and he is half the player..... I know that will be well received, I am well aware people will be really upset. But explain why Datsyuk deserves honest ranking over Goodfellow? He will go higher than he actually deserves. The fact he is getting votes is fairly ridiculous at this point.

Abel, Delvecchio, Lindsay, Goodfellow are all still on the board.

Abandoned the franchise... Lol. Not upset but your clear bias towards datsyuk because you've always been more in hanks corner is silly. There's no reason to detract from one to prop up the other. Datsyuk was simply the better player with the higher peak. The only thing those guys you named have on pavs is history. All tremendous players in their own rights but never reached the peak that datsyuk did.

 

[Syckle78]

Datsyuk has been far easier to like than Sergei. I mean, it seems people have mostly bought the absurd line Holland put out that Datsyuk didn't understand the 35+ rule. People are willing to believe anything about the guy.

No,I think people are more forgiving simply because datsyuk 's age and he's breaking down along with the fact that the team blows because of Holland. Feds tried to leave at his peak while the team was a top cup contender. The only thing thess guys have in common in this regard is they're both Russian.

 

[Retire91]

Both Daytsuk and Fedorov leaving was management's fault. Fedorov for reducing the deal they put on the table initially, and Daytsuk for signing him to a 3 year contract and then not icing a team worthy of him skating for. Both players are absolutely legendary in their on ice performance, too bad their careers ended up with some stigma. They deserve to be pretty dang high on this list.

 

[KJoe88]

Both Daytsuk and Fedorov leaving was management's fault. Fedorov for reducing the deal they put on the table initially, and Daytsuk for signing him to a 3 year contract and then not icing a team worthy of him skating for. Both players are absolutely legendary in their on ice performance, too bad their careers ended up with some stigma. They deserve to be pretty dang high on this list.

Excellent post.

One of the few posts from you I genuinely agree with. Spot on assessment too. I always thought management kind of low-balled Feds and was even reluctancy to sign him.

 

[Retire91]

Excellent post.

One of the few posts from you I genuinely agree with. Spot on assessment too. I always thought management kind of low-balled Feds and was even reluctancy to sign him.

haha thanks I'm coming around I think I am starting to see what's happening.

 

[Frk It]

I guess the way I've looked at this is: can you tell the story of the Red Wings without mentioning Player X? For instance, there's no way you could talk about the team/team history without mentioning Gordie Howe. I don't think Datsyuk (or Fedorov, for that matter) are as important to that 'story' as Lindsay and Delvecchio. I'd probably have both on the very next tier, though.

That's a cool and different way to look at it, I suppose.

But since the Cap has been implemented I would say the 07-08 Wings were the best team we have seen. And Datsyuk was arguably the best player on that team. So he has his place in our story too.

Edit- just looked and Lidstrom had 70 pts that year and now I want to cry. God our defense is pathetic.

 

[Retire91]

That's a cool and different way to look at it, I suppose.

But since the Cap has been implemented I would say the 07-08 Wings were the best team we have seen. And Datsyuk was arguably the best player on that team. So he has his place in our story too.

Edit- just looked and Lidstrom had 70 pts that year and now I want to cry. God our defense is pathetic.

I can agree with that. Players like Howe are someone everyone knows even if they were not a part of that Era. I am not sure Fedorov will still be thought of much in 50 more years as much of a crime as that would be. One of the most complete players and beautiful skaters of all time.

 

[Frk It]

I can agree with that. Players like Howe are someone everyone knows even if they were not a part of that Era. I am not sure Fedorov will still be thought of much in 50 more years as much of a crime as that would be. One of the most complete players and beautiful skaters of all time.

Up to you to pass that on to the future generations. I know and have an appreciation for guys like Gale Sayers and Robero Clemente because my dad would go on and on about how amazing they were, even though it was well before my time. That's the cool thing about sports.

 

[njx9]

That's a cool and different way to look at it, I suppose.

But since the Cap has been implemented I would say the 07-08 Wings were the best team we have seen. And Datsyuk was arguably the best player on that team. So he has his place in our story too.

Edit- just looked and Lidstrom had 70 pts that year and now I want to cry. God our defense is pathetic.

Totally agree that he has a place, I just think it's a bit smaller than some of these other guys. I don't agree at all with whoever said he's not even top ten. But like, if you were going to tell someone about the team, I think the top three guys in this poll would be the most important three by my criteria.

I can agree with that. Players like Howe are someone everyone knows even if they were not a part of that Era. I am not sure Fedorov will still be thought of much in 50 more years as much of a crime as that would be. One of the most complete players and beautiful skaters of all time.

Fedorov was an absolute joy to watch. And while I disagree with him at 4, he certainly deserved to be the 1st guy named who doesn't have his number in the rafters (yet). I was going to disagree with him being easily forgotten, but trying to find him in 'greatest player' lists is harder than I thought (or I suck at googling today). Not that I take much stock in position on those lists, but they're a good barometer for names people will know in 10-20 years. Given that, I hope they put his jersey up sooner, rather than later.

 

[ComradeChris]

Seems like Daytsuk might be suffering the opposite of nostalgia maybe people are biased that its too soon. Guy had such a complete game and probably the best defensive forward in the world most of his career. He brought a dimension to the ice no one had ever seen before. He was voted the greatest player by the NHL players themselves. Has all the necessary hardware and career longevity to back it up. I don't think the argument is outlandish but yeah when you start looking at some of the other names though.

No, it's just unrealistic to consider Datsyuk as a top 6 candidate. The production line was huge in multiple Stabley cup victories. Datsyuk was a 4th line plug in his rookie Stanley Cup season. 2008 his performance was underwhelming to Zetterberg. He did not pull through in 2009 or any years after Lidstrom retired. Him bailing on his last year of his contract, is unprofessional and he should ridiculed. However, it's not the major reason why he shouldn't be top 10. He simply does not have the past success or credentials.

Let's put it this way. Datsyuk was a non-factor for one Stabley cup. He was a factor in his second cup, but he still left you wanting more. He didn't pull through in 2009 and was not an impressive playoff player for most of his career. Now if you go back to the 1930s there were a few guys involved in the first Stanley cup championships that set the standard down the road.

Larry Aurie, Herbie Lewis, Syd Howe and goalie Normie Smith. Huge factors in back to back Stabley cups in the 1930s. How do none of them have more votes than Datsyuk? I will not understand. Datsyuk is not a top 10 Red Wing of all time. It's not even close. SIDE NOTE: Only Larry Aurie is even a current voting option.

 

[Frk It]

No, it's just unrealistic to consider Datsyuk as a top 6 candidate. The production line was huge in multiple Stabley cup victories. Datsyuk was a 4th line plug in his rookie Stanley Cup season. 2008 his performance was underwhelming to Zetterberg. He did not pull through in 2009 or any years after Lidstrom retired. Him bailing on his last year of his contract, is unprofessional and he should ridiculed. However, it's not the major reason why he shouldn't be top 10. He simply does not have the past success or credentials.

Let's put it this way. Datsyuk was a non-factor for one Stabley cup. He was a factor in his second cup, but he still left you wanting more. He didn't pull through in 2009 and was not an impressive playoff player for most of his career. Now if you go back to the 1930s there were a few guys involved in the first Stanley cup championships that set the standard down the road.

Larry Aurie, Herbie Lewis, Syd Howe and goalie Normie Smith. Huge factors in back to back Stabley cups in the 1930s. How do none of them have more votes than Datsyuk? I will not understand. Datsyuk is not a top 10 Red Wing of all time. It's not even close. SIDE NOTE: Only Larry Aurie is even a current voting option.

23 pts in 22 games while playing incredible defense left who wanting more? Speak for yourself on that one. More points than this recent Smythe winner.

 

[Winger98]

23 pts in 22 games while playing incredible defense left who wanting more? Speak for yourself on that one. More points than this recent Smythe winner.

that was the run where Datsyuk figured prominently, but was still second fiddle to Z. When I think of Datsyuk and the playoffs, I think of constant injuries and his game always being a step below what was expected at least partially because of those injuries. The guy always seemed to have something wrong with his legs.

It's not really his fault, injuries happen, but I think the year we lost to edmonton he had some leg problems, the year before the cup where he lost to Anaheim he was hurt, he was hobbled when we lost to Pittsburgh... . Was he hurt a few years ago when we pushed Chicago to seven games? If the guy had just been able to stay healthy or had a game that wasn't so predicated on his legs I think we could have had another cup or two.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Abandoned the franchise... Lol. Not upset but your clear bias towards datsyuk because you've always been more in hanks corner is silly. There's no reason to detract from one to prop up the other. Datsyuk was simply the better player with the higher peak. The only thing those guys you named have on pavs is history. All tremendous players in their own rights but never reached the peak that datsyuk did.

I would argue Zetterberg's 07-08 season was the best season by either of them.

I appreciate Datsyuk, I know some of you don't believe that. I just think he has built into something he isn't around here. The fact is him and Zetterberg are very interchangeable. They were a great one-two punch and top 10 centers in the league for a long time.

But lets be clear here if you're just looking at peaks we have two Hart Trophy winners sitting on the board right now. League MVPs were won by Abel and Goodfellow.

I am not debating Datsyuk vs Zetterberg only that neither should be going off the board was the point of their difference being negligible. But yes I would vote Zetterberg as he was the Captain and better playoff performer who will still stack some numbers on top of Datsyuk's now finished resume. But right now they are a coin flip scenario, but behind some of these guys. But it is hard to make a list where they don't come right next to each other. I expect most lists would have Datsyuk ahead, I don't but I do have him right behind Hank despite everybody thinking I hate him...