The Top 20 Red Wings of All-Time, #6

[Winger98]

I would argue Zetterberg's 07-08 season was the best season by either of them.

I appreciate Datsyuk, I know some of you don't believe that. I just think he has built into something he isn't around here. The fact is him and Zetterberg are very interchangeable. They were a great one-two punch and top 10 centers in the league for a long time.

But lets be clear here if you're just looking at peaks we have two Hart Trophy winners sitting on the board right now. League MVPs were won by Abel and Goodfellow.

I am not debating Datsyuk vs Zetterberg only that neither should be going off the board was the point of their difference being negligible. But yes I would vote Zetterberg as he was the Captain and better playoff performer who will still stack some numbers on top of Datsyuk's now finished resume. But right now they are a coin flip scenario, but behind some of these guys. But it is hard to make a list where they don't come right next to each other. I expect most lists would have Datsyuk ahead, I don't but I do have him right behind Hank despite everybody thinking I hate him...

Goodfellow isn't getting enough chatter here. He was an MVP, won three cups, he has the on-ice accolades...and he also founded the Red Wings Alumni Association, and was involved with the organization after he played. There's been a lot of talk about stats and what not, but what these guys did after their playing careers should carry some weight.

and I think it's entirely fair to point out Datsyuk bailing. At least Fedorov was genuinely without a contract the first time he tried to get out of town. Datsyuk suddenly didn't understand a word of english and had no idea about one of the most prominent rules instituted by a CBA that cost him half a year's paycheck. Sure.

 

[TooFlashy]

that was the run where Datsyuk figured prominently, but was still second fiddle to Z. When I think of Datsyuk and the playoffs, I think of constant injuries and his game always being a step below what was expected at least partially because of those injuries. The guy always seemed to have something wrong with his legs.

It's not really his fault, injuries happen, but I think the year we lost to edmonton he had some leg problems, the year before the cup where he lost to Anaheim he was hurt, he was hobbled when we lost to Pittsburgh... . Was he hurt a few years ago when we pushed Chicago to seven games? If the guy had just been able to stay healthy or had a game that wasn't so predicated on his legs I think we could have had another cup or two.

I dont know about 2013,but he was also injured against Nashville and Boston..dude could barely skate

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Goodfellow isn't getting enough chatter here. He was an MVP, won three cups, he has the on-ice accolades...and he also founded the Red Wings Alumni Association, and was involved with the organization after he played. There's been a lot of talk about stats and what not, but what these guys did after their playing careers should carry some weight.

and I think it's entirely fair to point out Datsyuk bailing. At least Fedorov was genuinely without a contract the first time he tried to get out of town. Datsyuk suddenly didn't understand a word of english and had no idea about one of the most prominent rules instituted by a CBA that cost him half a year's paycheck. Sure.

It really makes no sense that Goodfellow doesn't have the honor of retired jersey. Fedorov and him will be massive omissions if that is never done.

 

[KJoe88]

Should we do #7 now?

 

[GMR]

You guys need to butch up on your hockey history. On the HOF board, Lindsay would murder Delvecchio. What do people know there that people on this forum don't?

For starters, Lindsay has a freaking NHL award named after him and was an 8 time first team All-Star. What did Delvecchio ever accomplish that matches that? He was second team All-Star once. He may have played the most games in a Wings uniform, but it's not like Lindsay played half his career elsewhere.

 

[waltdetroit]

You guys need to butch up on your hockey history. On the HOF board, Lindsay would murder Delvecchio. What do people know there that people on this forum don't?

For starters, Lindsay has a freaking NHL award named after him and was an 8 time first team All-Star. What did Delvecchio ever accomplish that matches that? He was second team All-Star once. He may have played the most games in a Wings uniform, but it's not like Lindsay played half his career elsewhere.

Agree with most of this

 

[Mount Suribachi]

You guys need to butch up on your hockey history. On the HOF board, Lindsay would murder Delvecchio. What do people know there that people on this forum don't?

For starters, Lindsay has a freaking NHL award named after him and was an 8 time first team All-Star. What did Delvecchio ever accomplish that matches that? He was second team All-Star once. He may have played the most games in a Wings uniform, but it's not like Lindsay played half his career elsewhere.

It's the greatest RedWing, not the greatest player to play for the Wings. I think most Delvecchio voters would agree Lindsay was the better player, but this is two consecutive polls were these two have been neck and neck. The exact same thing happened in the #2 poll with Yzerman/Lidstrom.

Clearly there is a rough 50/50 split in how this board views the situation. Neither is wrong, its just a different approach to the same question.

FWIW, the HOH board has Delvecchio 37th in their all time center list, Lindsay is 10th on the wingers list, so its not like AD is some scrub that doesn't belong in the conversation.

 

[njx9]

It's the greatest RedWing, not the greatest player to play for the Wings. I think most Delvecchio voters would agree Lindsay was the better player, but this is two consecutive polls were these two have been neck and neck. The exact same thing happened in the #2 poll with Yzerman/Lidstrom.

This, exactly. And given the numbers of people voting for Datsyuk over either, I think there are bigger beefs than which one ends up as 6a and which one ends up as 6b.

 

[Peter Tosh]

This thread is more than two weeks old. Time to move on! And I'm gonna keep voting for Keith Primeau

 

[GMR]

It's the greatest RedWing, not the greatest player to play for the Wings. I think most Delvecchio voters would agree Lindsay was the better player, but this is two consecutive polls were these two have been neck and neck. The exact same thing happened in the #2 poll with Yzerman/Lidstrom.

Clearly there is a rough 50/50 split in how this board views the situation. Neither is wrong, its just a different approach to the same question.

FWIW, the HOH board has Delvecchio 37th in their all time center list, Lindsay is 10th on the wingers list, so its not like AD is some scrub that doesn't belong in the conversation.

So people are primarily basing this on games played for the Wings? Not sure what else it could be. Sure, Delvecchio is a Hall of Famer, but Lindsay's career accomplishments (which came in a Wings uniform) far surpass his. Lindsay continues to be a great ambassador for the Wings and always has been.

I'm guessing Red Kelly and Norm Ullman will be lucky to finish in the top 10.

 

[Datsyukian Deke]

Still waiting for a Bob Errey or Vincent Riendeau vote...

 

[Mount Suribachi]

So people are primarily basing this on games played for the Wings? Not sure what else it could be. Sure, Delvecchio is a Hall of Famer, but Lindsay's career accomplishments (which came in a Wings uniform) far surpass his. Lindsay continues to be a great ambassador for the Wings and always has been.

Of course not, otherwise Draper and Holmstrom would be getting more votes than Lindsay. This is what I posted in the #5 thread, which sums up my thinking:

FWIW I go Delvecchio > Fedorov > Lindsay of the three in this thread, so here is my argument.

Firstly, the numbers argument (parentheses is all-time Red Wing ranking)

Delvecchio: GP: 1549 (3rd), G: 546 (3rd), A: 835 (4th), P: 1281 (3rd)

Fedorov: GP: 908 (10th), G: 400 (4th), A: 554 (6th), P: 954 (5th)

Lindsay: GP: 862 (13th), G: 335 (5th), A: 393 (9th), P: 728 (9th)

So, as can be seen, just from the raw numbers, there's a clear hierarchy.

Secondly, silverware

Delvecchio: 3 x Stanley Cup, ASG x 13, 2nd team all-star x 2

Fedorov: 3 x Stanley Cup, ASG x 6, 1st team all-star x 2, Hart Trophy x 1, Lester B Pearson x 1, Selke Trophy x 2

Lindsay: 4 x Stanley Cup, ASG x 11, 1st team all-star x 8 (!), Art Ross Trophy x 1

I think this ones pretty much a wash. Delvecchio's and Lindsay greater all-star numbers (albeit it in a 6 team league) are balanced by Fedorov's individual hardware.

Thirdly, Red Wings legacy

In terms of their impact on Detroit, all three are roughly equal in that they were all key components in the two great eras of Red Wings hockey, but equally all were a hair below the greats on their team (Howe/Sawchuk and Yzerman/Lidstrom) in terms of who "drove the bus".

Delvecchio stands out here for his longevity - 22 seasons in Detroit, 12 as captain. Went on to be head coach and GM (albeit with no success). Still associated with Detroit today with the Alumni and has his number retired.

Lindsay and Feds both had their careers in Detroit cut short, for which they bear varying blame, and although the rehabilitation of Fedorov has begun, and he has had a shorter time to establish his post playing legacy as well as living on another continent, Lindsay has a clear edge over him here with his number retirement, alumni membership, even his stall in the locker room and continuing to be active round the Joe.

Finally, greatness.

I don't think anyone could argue that Fedorov is the best player of the 3. Many of those who saw him play would argue that he is most all-round talented player to ever play the game, there wasn't a hockey skill (except fighting) that he wasn't great at. Lindsay can lay claim to being the best LW of his era, but again, this was a 6 team, Canada only NHL. Fedorov was playing in a league with Wayne and Mario at C. And Yzerman, Sakic, Forsberg, Modano....
If HFBoards was a thing in the 50s, it would probably say Delvecchio belongs in the Hall of Very Good.

So there you go. If we were ranking best players, it would go Fedorov > Lindsay > Delvecchio, but we're not. We're ranking them as Red Wings. Delvecchio's lead over the other two in numbers and time is too big IMO for their greater talent to overcome.

Lastly

I'm guessing Red Kelly and Norm Ullman will be lucky to finish in the top 10

I'm guessing Delvecchio, Lindsay and Datsyuk will go 6-7-8. If you think Kelly and Ullman belong in the top 10, its up to you to make the argument for them - educate the rest of us on why you think that. People have already admitted to changing their vote based upon the arguments others have made.