The Top 20 Red Wings of All-Time, #3

[KJoe88]

I took a jab in the #2 poll. My point was solid. My approach wasn't. But I think a lot of votes will be dependant on how long a person has watched the wings.

This is Lidstrom easily. But as I look down the list I realize I've only seen 11 of 22 names on the poll. I was born in 75. My hockey started with Yzerman. As I think about who to vote for next, my original jab will apply to me. I don't know how "insert name of old guy" stacks up against Datsyuk. I would only be guessing.

That said, I mimic Zetterbergs Era post to a T.
Lidstrom best vs peers.
Fedorov fav to watch.
Yzerman most everything else.

I can agree with all that. Yzerman (the player) was and still is the Red Wings, to me.

I've watched Yzerman throughout his 'greater' years and I prefer Lidstrom. I saw Yzerman play from '96 until be broke down to his retirement - those years have just has much influence as his earlier years because those were years that started to really portray what kind of player he was. He was a great Red Wing, in some eyes the best... I saw enough of Yzerman and obviously Lidstrom for me to determine who was greater in my eyes. Your point was, imo, not solid 100% and a bit of a cheapshot to younger fans. Just because some posters like myself missed his debut years by a handful of years doesn't mean the people who prefer Lids over him (like myself) should be discredited.

I was born in '88 and have been watching the Wings since I was seven. I remember a lot.

For example, I voted for Howe for #1 even though I never saw single game. But his history and the type of person he was made me choose him. There are different factors that make people choose for someone else even if the some don't agree. That doesn't make them unworthy of a vote. :/ And you made it seem like that in your last post.

To me Lidstrom vs Yzerman isn't as easy as some of you make it out to be. I am by no means saying Yzerman isn't great or overrated. Not at all. But Lidstrom WAS just as great in his own right. He just went about showing it in a different way. Lidstrom had a sort of aura or calmness if you will that Yzerman didn't have. Just like Yzerman had a way of pumping up his teammates that made him the pinnacle of captaincy.

Younger fans know of Yzerman's history and I'm sure they respect him. Just like I'm sure he's worthy of a top vote. Just like I know what the older greats contributed a lot and will get my vote. There's no right or wrong vote imo. I noticed someone voted for Sawchuck last round over both Stevie and Nick. Does that make him/her wrong? I guess he's just too old of a fan to appreciate Yzerman or even Datsyuk. People have preferences that they factor into a vote.

Just like how I believe Datsyuk has been one of the most unique and electrifying players I've ever seen. His skill was undeniable. Some might yell at me for even stating he's worthy of a top five vote. He made me smile when he played. That's just part of how I determine who I pick. The one's who made me smile when playing and then disappointed when not playing.

I guess what I'm just trying to say is that even though guys like Primeau, Hasek or even Shanahan may not he high for me, doesn't mean I'm gonna shrug at someone else who thinks otherwise. Lol, I don't even know if any of this makes sense.
/rant.

 

[Henkka]

Lidström.

Who else has scored twice behind the red line at the playoffs and turned the momentum around at both series?

 

[SpookyTsuki]

I wonder who will win

 

[Winger98]

The best part about that is in typical Lidstrom fashion, he adjusted better to its disappearance as well.

He wasn't the only guy doing it, he just did it the best and would also quickly gain control of the puck.

But yes he would basically pitch-fork guys right into the boards off the puck. Even before the rules change that is why he got so good at the hand eye bat the puck out of the air. People were giving up trying to get down the boards on him, he would just pinch them off on the boards with his stick while giving up none of his positioning. He did that right away from Sweden too.

I remember all of the talk on national TV broadcasts at the time, wondering how Lidstrom was going to alter his game with it, if he'd still be able to handle bigger forwards, etc. It really seemed like people wanted to see him, and the Wings, fall. Him being European was a lot bigger hurdle for NA hockey people to overcome than I think a lot of us realize.

Especially since his game was so understated. Their was a weird love/hate thing with Konstantinov and NA journalists/front office people. No one outside of Detroit really liked him, but they respected how he played. Lidstrom was almost the antithesis of NA hockey.

I know there was the move along the wall where you would put the stick between the legs and use it as leverage to keep the player along the boards, but I don't think that is a Lidstrom-specific moveset.

What got me about Lidstrom was how calm he was in the playoffs. No panic. Some guys get better in the playoffs (Pronger is a notable example), some get worse, but Lidstrom just did his job every single game no matter what the stakes. He was the one to scored with less than a minute to go against Anaheim in 2009 to give Detroit a huge win early in the series, Lidstrom was the one to get in position to possibly tie up game 7 in the 2009 Stanley Cup Finals (unfortunately Fleury made the right guess as to where he was going to send the puck), Lidstrom was the one who made a smart play on net in 2002 which got by Cloutier to give Detroit momentum to win a series where we were down 2-0, Lidstrom was the one to score the opening goal late in the first period of game 4 in 1997. Those are just plays I remember Lidstrom making off the top of my head. He was such a valuable factor in Detroit's long playoff runs.

Edit: A couple other clutch plays in 1997: Game 4 against Anaheim, Lidstrom enters the slot to tie the game and force overtime. Game 2 against Colorado where he saves a sure goal which leads to a McCarty insurance goal on the same shift.

Yeah, the consistency in his game was crazy. And all of the moments we remember of the guy are playoff moments, but that consistency was there for the 82 games before that. The number of games he saved/won for us over his career has to be a crazy high number.I don't know if there is a good WAR equivalent for hockey stats, but if he isn't at or near the top of it for his career, I would almost not trust it just based on that.

And he would play all 82 of those games. He lost more games to work stoppages than to injury. That's nuts.

 

[Red Stanley]

His ability to french kiss his opponents through their face shields is legendary. The choice is easy: Steve Ott.

 

[Leadzedder]

KJoe...

You watched Yzerman during his successful years, not his greatest years.

Yzermans playing career was, per wiki, 1983-2006. You tuned in in 1996. So that's 13 years of his career (actually I think 12) that came before then. That's kind of the point. What you witnessed was the downside of his career. Post knee injuries. Selke defense.

The 12 years you missed are why a lot of people vote Yzerman over Lidstrom quite easily. He had no supporting cast. He was an enormous talent. As mentioned, at times, only behind 99 and 66. Lidstrom was one of the top defenders all time. But Yzerman was Yzerman.

I wonder if we have any voters that watched all of Yzermans career that would still choose Lidstrom. Truth is Lidstrom was so dominant at his position they could make a case. But I wouldn't agree.

 

[KJoe88]

KJoe...

You watched Yzerman during his successful years, not his greatest years.

Yzermans playing career was, per wiki, 1983-2006. You tuned in in 1996. So that's 13 years of his career (actually I think 12) that came before then. That's kind of the point. What you witnessed was the downside of his career. Post knee injuries. Selke defense.

The 12 years you missed are why a lot of people vote Yzerman over Lidstrom quite easily. He had no supporting cast. He was an enormous talent. As mentioned, at times, only behind 99 and 66. Lidstrom was one of the top defenders all time. But Yzerman was Yzerman.

I wonder if we have any voters that watched all of Yzermans career that would still choose Lidstrom. Truth is Lidstrom was so dominant at his position they could make a case. But I wouldn't agree.

I'm willing to bet Stevie would say his greatest years were the years we won countless cups with dream teams.

And again, you dismissed my point and putting too much emphasis on 'watching'.

 

[Bench]

I wonder if we have any voters that watched all of Yzermans career that would still choose Lidstrom.

 

[Mount Suribachi]

90% of us voters are in the same boat in not watching the old guys play. I'd imagine Feds will do well in the next round. It's difficult comparing Feds to someone like Lindsay.

I'm actually looking forward to the next few rounds to see the arguments that people put forth. My gut feeling is Sawchuk, but I can be swayed by a convincing argument for Lindsay, Feds or whoever

 

[RabidBadger]

My vote at this point is akin to a vote for Ralph Nader for prez in 2000, but I went with Sawchuk and Lids as #4.

I know numbers do not tell the whole story, but it took 30 years until Roy surpassed his win total. It took 39 years until Brodeur topped his shutout record. He battled alcoholism and depression throughout his career and was battered constantly...look up his his facial pics.

A lot of hockey experts still consider him the greatest goalie of all time. If there is time to kill after these polls, maybe we can name our starting 6 all time (NHL history).

 

[Leadzedder]

I'm willing to bet Stevie would say his greatest years were the years we won countless cups with dream teams.

And again, you dismissed my point and putting too much emphasis on 'watching'.

The point was Yzerman was a better player, carried the team on his back for the 12 years you didn't watch. Anyway, I thought it was a valid point more so than a "bait".

Carry on...

 

[Mount Suribachi]

My vote at this point is akin to a vote for Ralph Nader for prez in 2000, but I went with Sawchuk and Lids as #4.

I know numbers do not tell the whole story, but it took 30 years until Roy surpassed his win total. It took 39 years until Brodeur topped his shutout record. He battled alcoholism and depression throughout his career and was battered constantly...look up his his facial pics.

A lot of hockey experts still consider him the greatest goalie of all time. If there is time to kill after these polls, maybe we can name our starting 6 all time (NHL history).

It will pretty much pick itself. Only question mark is RD, and possible LW, especially if you make it so we have to have a "pure" LW.

Fedorov?/Lindsay?/Delvecchio? - Yzerman - Howe
Lidstrom - Kelly?/Pronovost?
Sawchuk

 

[KJoe88]

The point was Yzerman was a better player, carried the team on his back for the 12 years you didn't watch. Anyway, I thought it was a valid point more so than a "bait".

Carry on...

Yet I still saw him for 10+ years of which he still poured blood and guts into the team. Your point? So you're telling me because I missed his 100P+ seasons I'm automatically dismissed of his career? Lmao.

I know what Yzerman was about. I'd choose Lidstrom everyday, but doesn't mean Yzerman isn't legendary in my eyes.

Lidstrom was the epitome of defensive perfection in hockey. I believe he deserves every mention of possibly being the better Wing.

 

[Retire91]

Just a fun vote for Sergei but yeah its lidstrom, arguably replace #2 and #3. Love Yzerman but personally I think Lidstrom had the bigger in game impact. Lids over Steve and that was not easy to say. No surprise that 3 life time wings and former captains are 1 2 and 3

 

[Syckle78]

Yet I still saw him for 10+ years of which he still poured blood and guts into the team. Your point? So you're telling me because I missed his 100P+ seasons I'm automatically dismissed of his career? Lmao.

I know what Yzerman was about. I'd choose Lidstrom everyday, but doesn't mean Yzerman isn't legendary in my eyes.

Lidstrom was the epitome of defensive perfection in hockey. I believe he deserves every mention of possibly being the better Wing.

You're not dismissed. But you're also off base claiming to have seen him in his best years as an 8-9 year old in '96. Lol

 

[HIFE]

I'm going to suggest Reed Larson for an add. He was a big contributor for awhile, and a former captain.

Yes before Yzerman all there was was Larson. He was a favorite player back then. Supposedly my family has a signed stick but I haven't found it yet. 685 points in 904 games as a defenseman. I read an article arguing that if Reed had played on an even half-competent team he would be in the HHOF. He did make it into the USHHOF. Most wicked slapshot imaginable we could sure use a shot like that again.

 

[TheMule93]

I didn't see gordie howe play, doesn't mean I can't appreciate him 60 years later