The Top 20 Red Wings of All-Time, #3

[SoupNazi]

Steve Yzerman edges out Lidstrom for Round 2. I expect Round 3 will be over quickly as well.

Round 1: Gordie Howe, 82.35%
Round 2: Steve Yzerman, 52%





As always, discuss and offer an add. I've added Norm Ullman this round.

Click to read more...

 

[SoupNazi]

Lidstrom, easily.

 

[Ezekial]

Lidstrom, now the fun begins.

Nick was his nickname. The type of player who made so few mistakes that you would be in disbelief if he did. All of us who were fortunate enough to watch him play for and lead the Wings for 20 years should feel blessed. One of the GOATs, the perfect human, an amazing Red Wing and person.

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

Lidstrom easily.

 

[Mount Suribachi]

Nick was his nickname. The type of player who made so few mistakes that you would be in disbelief if he did. All of us who were fortunate enough to watch him play for and lead the Wings for 20 years should feel blessed. One of the GOATs, the perfect human, an amazing Red Wing and person.

Yeah, it was a sure sign of the aging process around 2010 when now and then you'd suddenly find yourself saying "was that Lidstrom who turned the puck over??"

I love to quote my favourite hockey stat of how he is the only defenceman with 1000+ points who didn't play in the 80s. But perhaps the most telling thing about his skill is the effect he had on his D partners.
He single handedly revived the career of Larry Murphy
Ian White looked like a serviceable NHL defenceman alongside Lids
3rd pairing guys (Dandenault) to All-Stars (Rafalski) had career years paired with Lids
Paul Coffey won a Norris alongside Lids, yet 18 months later was shipped out and his career nosedived, hard, after that point.
He won a Norris paired with Dandenault, he won another paired with Dmitri Bykov (remember him?).
He finished the season with a minus rating just once, -2, at the age of 40.

There's a great myth that the History of Hockey board has propagated as fact on here that Lidstrom only became good in 1998 (or even 2000). That he only became elite after Detroit had won 2 Presidents trophies, 2 Stanley Cups, 3 trips to the finals, 6 division titles and been selected as an all-star 4 times.
Let us not forget he put up 60 points as a rookie and was second to Bure in the Calder that year.

And as someone pointed out in the #2 thread, the rise, dominance, and fall of the Red Wings follows Lidstrom's career arc perfectly.

Add D-Mac

 

[Frk It]

Lidstrom is easily the best player I've ever seen wear a Red Wings jersey.

But I didn't really watch and was too young for most of Yzerman's prime.

Not sure from 2000-2010 if there was a better player in the league than Lidstrom.

 

[DanZ]

Lidstrom was a better player than Yzerman. I'm assuming this poll is about Red Wings legacy and not actual ability? Otherwise Lidstrom should be #2.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Lidstrom is easily the best player I've ever seen wear a Red Wings jersey.

But I didn't really watch and was too young for most of Yzerman's prime.

Not sure from 2000-2010 if there was a better player in the league than Lidstrom.

I love Lidstrom but he isn't easily or AINEC over Yzerman or Fedorov. In reality talent wise that is a very close race in terms of my time watching. There is a noticeable drop off after that to the Shanahan, Datsyuk, Zetterberg crowd in my opinion, who were still all great players but a clear tier below in my years of watching.

 

[Winger98]

I'm going to suggest Reed Larson for an add. He was a big contributor for awhile, and a former captain.

 

[Peter Tosh]

Voted Keith Primeau. Add Mark Mowers

 

[Obe2kenobe]

Voted Lidstrom of course. I remember a interview with Yzerman years ago when he said Nick is the star of this team. I don't remember the year but the wings had plenty of stars. Also I remember going to watch the wings in T.C. at training camp in 98 watching the whole team skate and just how effortless he looked compared to everyone else.

 

[Frk It]

I love Lidstrom but he isn't easily or AINEC over Yzerman or Fedorov. In reality talent wise that is a very close race in terms of my time watching. There is a noticeable drop off after that to the Shanahan, Datsyuk, Zetterberg crowd in my opinion, who were still all great players but a clear tier below in my years of watching.

You probably have a better scope to assess that than I do.

Can't really contribute as much to this thread as I'd like since I started watching hockey (and specifically the Wings) a bit later.

 

[njx9]

Pretty easy choice. No idea which way to go next round...

 

[Martinez]

Pretty easy choice. No idea which way to go next round...

It's tough, I've got delvecchio slightly over lindsay. But then you've also got stars like Abel, sawchuck, kelly, Feds.
I even see jack Adams in there which is interesting

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

You probably have a better scope to assess that than I do.

Can't really contribute as much to this thread as I'd like since I started watching hockey (and specifically the Wings) a bit later.

This will probably be long-winded for those of you that want to pass. But what I remember most about the three greatest Wings I have seen in person is this.

As was stated in the first two, Yzerman is really impacted the most for the younger fans. It is hard to express just how good he was early in his career. For me he was the clear cut third best player in the league behind Lemiuex and Gretzky for a little while. He also had a better two way game than is really talked about. I realize he bought in even more when Bowman came and was less willing to trade chances, but he was drawing the top line checking assignments for years. Really the difference was once Fedorov fully developed Yzerman had a lot less of a burden in my opinion. But there is a reason his nickname was Stevie Wonder before simply being known as the Captain. He was an awe inspiring talent.

In my first Red Wings games as a very little kid in the 80's they are remembered primarily by this. The Wings had little talent, they were mean and Yzerman would score but they were going to get blown out most nights, it was on Stevie to drag the score up while being surrounded by okay talent that underwhelmed compared to who they were playing. I like Gallant, Sheppard (later), Johnny O (he was very good) and Burr, but they weren't what a lot of other first lines were running. Burr, Kocur and Probert would get the crowd rocking. Yzerman was good for at least five offensive dynamite plays a night while being dynamic in transition, he was always a good back-checker as well. He was the reason you came to games, you knew Yzerman would deliver something great a couple times a night.

I got Lidstrom's jersey right after the pre-season while begging my dad. I had rocked a Joe Kocur jersey until that time. He had been traded to the Rangers. Everyone had Stevie jerseys or Probert and I liked that while Kocur had a smattering in the crowd he was less prominent in the jersey department. I thought Lidstrom looked incredibly good. He never missed a pass, he was a great skater and he looked like he would be here a long time. No idea he was as good as he is now, I actually think liking Lidstrom all those years though helped how I watch hockey in terms of you could marvel at all the small stuff he did.

Lidstrom had the ability to strangle the game away from the best in the game. He was so flawless it was like a snowball rolling down hill on other guys. He just shift in and shift out wore you out. Made you try things you weren't comfortable with and punished you for nearly every mistake. The beauty of Lidstrom's game was how minimal it could be. He rarely held the puck for too long, he always put it tape to tape, his stick is the best stick I have ever seen, always in the right spot and incredibly strong even when one handed. At ice level you could see him manipulate passing and shooting lanes opening the game apart. He was never rushed and never flustered, even when it seemed like the game was getting away from the Wings one Lidstrom shift could turn the game right around.

Fedorov is actually my favorite player probably. To watch him in person never got old. I could watch Fedorov skate until the day I die with a smile on my face. The most beautiful stride, agility and control I have seen. When Fedorov was aggressive offensively he reminded me of young Yzerman but with the size to get inside more often. He had a devastating array of tools, there was nothing he didn't do well. Center, Wing and Defense, he could do anything and it made him a target at times for people who wanted more.

Really it was an honor to watch all three. I think Lidstrom especially given the consistency gets the edge of the three in terms of the best player. Fedorov has the best peak. But Yzerman for me is the best Red Wing. He embodied everything it meant to be a Red Wings player. He was the leader, he changed the culture. He made hockey fun again in Detroit and overtime they shifted from the team of fighters around him to one that could maximize his skill and drive. They followed him, what Lidstrom developed into in my opinion is in part because of Stevie. They all elevated each other and they bought into the culture that Ilitch, Devellano and Yzerman built.

 

[Winger98]

Lidstrom had the ability to strangle the game away from the best in the game. He was so flawless it was like a snowball rolling down hill on other guys. He just shift in and shift out wore you out. Made you try things you weren't comfortable with and punished you for nearly every mistake. The beauty of Lidstrom's game was how minimal it could be. He rarely held the puck for too long, he always put it tape to tape, his stick is the best stick I have ever seen, always in the right spot and incredibly strong even when one handed. At ice level you could see him manipulate passing and shooting lanes opening the game apart. He was never rushed and never flustered, even when it seemed like the game was getting away from the Wings one Lidstrom shift could turn the game right around.

It's been years now, but do you remember the rule change because of how good Lidstrom was with his stick and using it to angle players into the boards? I can't remember the exact move, but it was ridiculous because it was aimed solely at Lids, because he was the only guy who could and did do it with any consistency.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

It's tough, I've got delvecchio slightly over lindsay. But then you've also got stars like Abel, sawchuck, kelly, Feds.
I even see jack Adams in there which is interesting

I also have Alex Delvecchio as #4.

He is a classic case of do you do this more on talent or on Red Wings player. He is HHOF so tons of talent to be sure, but he only played for the Wings and was the captain forever. But then again he never actually led the team in scoring and was not likely the most talented player or second most talented player on his team. His contributions to the franchise are epic though and he does sit behind our top three in virtually every franchise record.

If we are voting on talent it should be a decision between Goodfellow, Fedorov, Kelly, Abel, Lindsay and Sawchuk.

Of course I don't even really identify Kelly as a Red Wings player as much as a Maple Leaf. So his placement on this list will vex me a little. In a discussion of greatest Red Wings a player who himself associates with another franchise and I think of first in the jersey of our most bitter rival historically is tough to place on the list.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

It's been years now, but do you remember the rule change because of how good Lidstrom was with his stick and using it to angle players into the boards? I can't remember the exact move, but it was ridiculous because it was aimed solely at Lids, because he was the only guy who could and did do it with any consistency.

The best part about that is in typical Lidstrom fashion, he adjusted better to its disappearance as well.

He wasn't the only guy doing it, he just did it the best and would also quickly gain control of the puck.

But yes he would basically pitch-fork guys right into the boards off the puck. Even before the rules change that is why he got so good at the hand eye bat the puck out of the air. People were giving up trying to get down the boards on him, he would just pinch them off on the boards with his stick while giving up none of his positioning. He did that right away from Sweden too.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

It's been years now, but do you remember the rule change because of how good Lidstrom was with his stick and using it to angle players into the boards? I can't remember the exact move, but it was ridiculous because it was aimed solely at Lids, because he was the only guy who could and did do it with any consistency.

I know there was the move along the wall where you would put the stick between the legs and use it as leverage to keep the player along the boards, but I don't think that is a Lidstrom-specific moveset.

What got me about Lidstrom was how calm he was in the playoffs. No panic. Some guys get better in the playoffs (Pronger is a notable example), some get worse, but Lidstrom just did his job every single game no matter what the stakes. He was the one to scored with less than a minute to go against Anaheim in 2009 to give Detroit a huge win early in the series, Lidstrom was the one to get in position to possibly tie up game 7 in the 2009 Stanley Cup Finals (unfortunately Fleury made the right guess as to where he was going to send the puck), Lidstrom was the one who made a smart play on net in 2002 which got by Cloutier to give Detroit momentum to win a series where we were down 2-0, Lidstrom was the one to score the opening goal late in the first period of game 4 in 1997. Those are just plays I remember Lidstrom making off the top of my head. He was such a valuable factor in Detroit's long playoff runs.

Edit: A couple other clutch plays in 1997: Game 4 against Anaheim, Lidstrom enters the slot to tie the game and force overtime. Game 2 against Colorado where he saves a sure goal which leads to a McCarty insurance goal on the same shift.

 

[KJoe88]

Lidstrom again. Fedorov next.

I feel like the entirety of the Russian Five should be up there. Just my opinion, though.

 

[Martinez]

I also have Alex Delvecchio as #4.

He is a classic case of do you do this more on talent or on Red Wings player. He is HHOF so tons of talent to be sure, but he only played for the Wings and was the captain forever. But then again he never actually led the team in scoring and was not likely the most talented player or second most talented player on his team. His contributions to the franchise are epic though and he does sit behind our top three in virtually every franchise record.

If we are voting on talent it should be a decision between Goodfellow, Fedorov, Kelly, Abel, Lindsay and Sawchuk.

Of course I don't even really identify Kelly as a Red Wings player as much as a Maple Leaf. So his placement on this list will vex me a little. In a discussion of greatest Red Wings a player who himself associates with another franchise and I think of first in the jersey of our most bitter rival historically is tough to place on the list.

From what I've read was always the guy centering great wingers and setting them up with perfect passes. Whether it was him passing to Howe or Lindsay or mahovlich. He was kind of the unsung hero of the teams. Like backstrom vs Ovie. But I'm young so this is all from just reading about him.
Also, I'm not voting on talent necessarily

 

[andreydali19]

Lids. Please add Larry Aurie.

 

[Bench]

Lidstrom was a better player than Yzerman. I'm assuming this poll is about Red Wings legacy and not actual ability? Otherwise Lidstrom should be #2.

It's different for everyone. Some people value the leadership and intangibles that make Yzerman the de facto face of the franchise. And I think that's completely reasonable. When you think of the Wings dynasty, Yzerman is at the forefront. He's the Captain America of the Avengers. Lidstrom is Thor, a giant in his own right, but not the centerpiece leader.

Fedorov is Iron Man. Probert the Hulk. Brett Hull as Hawkeye. Mickey Redmond as Nick Fury. And Filppula as Black Widow.

 

[Leadzedder]

I took a jab in the #2 poll. My point was solid. My approach wasn't. But I think a lot of votes will be dependant on how long a person has watched the wings.

This is Lidstrom easily. But as I look down the list I realize I've only seen 11 of 22 names on the poll. I was born in 75. My hockey started with Yzerman. As I think about who to vote for next, my original jab will apply to me. I don't know how "insert name of old guy" stacks up against Datsyuk. I would only be guessing.

That said, I mimic Zetterbergs Era post to a T.
Lidstrom best vs peers.
Fedorov fav to watch.
Yzerman most everything else.

I can agree with all that. Yzerman (the player) was and still is the Red Wings, to me.

 

[Martinez]

I took a jab in the #2 poll. My point was solid. My approach wasn't. But I think a lot of votes will be dependant on how long a person has watched the wings.

This is Lidstrom easily. But as I look down the list I realize I've only seen 11 of 22 names on the poll. I was born in 75. My hockey started with Yzerman. As I think about who to vote for next, my original jab will apply to me. I don't know how "insert name of old guy" stacks up against Datsyuk. I would only be guessing.

That said, I mimic Zetterbergs Era post to a T.
Lidstrom best vs peers.
Fedorov fav to watch.
Yzerman most everything else.

I can agree with all that. Yzerman (the player) was and still is the Red Wings, to me.

90% of us voters are in the same boat in not watching the old guys play. I'd imagine Feds will do well in the next round. It's difficult comparing Feds to someone like Lindsay.