News Article: The Top 10 Worst NHL Contracts ( two Leafs)

[Leaf Lander]

THN is a rag run by hab fans

 

[TheThrill81*]

No, because PK is a star. Very dynamic and can open up a PP like very few players have ever been able to. Players like him are extremely rare and are very difficult to obtain.

PP specialists are not extremely rare and difficult to obtain.

 

[Kessley Snipes*]

Montreal scored 48 PP goals and PK was on the ice for 42 of them. That is how one individual can help a team win. That is amazing production.

Did you miss the part in school where the taught the fact that correlation =/= causation. I don't think anybody here in their right mind is arguing Subban v Phaneuf. The point of this thread is explaining that Phaneuf does have value and showing where it resides.

 

[MrLegend28*]

ph look, another leaf bashing thread in the leaf's section. good discussion.

 

[yubbers]

Sorry
Go Leafs
Candy, rainbows, streets paved in Stanley cups.

 

[diceman934]

Did you miss the part in school where the taught the fact that correlation =/= causation. I don't think anybody here in their right mind is arguing Subban v Phaneuf. The point of this thread is explaining that Phaneuf does have value and showing where it resides.

What are you talking about? some people are holding out Dion as better than Subban....which is a huge joke!

I never started this discussion about Subban so maybe go to that person with your complaint.



Lets say he is worth 7 Million a year but not the 7 years and more like 5 years....that would still be 14M too much and that makes his contract horrible. That still puts it at 2M per year to much when you average it out over the term of the contract.

 

[Kessley Snipes*]

What are you talking about? some people are holding out Dion as better than Subban....which is a huge joke!

I never started this discussion about Subban so maybe go to that person with your complaint.



Lets say he is worth 7 Million a year but not the 7 years and more like 5 years....that would still be 14M too much and that makes his contract horrible. That still puts it at 2M per year to much when you average it out over the term of the contract.

But by that logic, literally every NHL player is overpaid.

 

[Ricky Bobby]

Yeah I'm also getting sick of the way people keep mentioning that Dion is the captain, as if he's supposed to drag the team to victory all by himself.

I've said it before - Dion is in all-time worst circumstances to look good. A team that as a whole doesn't play defence, and generally poor partners (some that belong in the AHL). Just as an example, flip Seabrook and Phaneuf. Phaneuf would be a perennial all-star, and the yahoos on this board would be trying to run Seabrook out of town.

I really hope that sometime before Dion gets too old we get to see him play on a Leaf team that actually plays defense and with a worthy defense partner. Then we'll probably see him on the all-star team (again).

Couldn't agree more.

JayBo goes from playing on a poor Calgary team where everyone focused on his poor contract to playing an elite team in St. Louis and being pair with Pietrangelo now everybody talks like he's amazing. The situation changed more then the player.

On the opposite side: Guys like Goligoksi + Murray go from playing on an elite team in the Pens to playing on at best average teams and people were calling them bums or trying to run them out of town. Even a guy like Beauchemin goes from being asked to be the # 1 Dman for a good chunk of his time to a D group that has top end goaltending another top pairing guy in Fowler, elite cycle players who keep the puck in the other teams zone in Getzlaf + Perry + recently a quickly emerging elite Dman in Lindholm then all of a sudden people are talking like he's great.

As for the Subban argument. He makes 2 million more per year. That isn't pocket change. Subban has also had an elite D partner in Markov and elite goaltender in Price well Phaneuf has had a # 4 Dman in Gunnarson or AHLer in Kostka/Holzer and goaltending that has been subpar to slightly above average in recent seasons. Subban has been a better Dman recently but make absolutely no mistake that he has also been placed in a far better situation.

Phaneuf more then anything needs a better supporting cast. Him and this team desperately need Gardiner + Rielly to take the next step in their development. When Phaneuf was being mentioned as a regular Norris candidate early in his career he had perennial Vezina candidate Kipper backstopping the team and Regehr + Hamrlik to help him and the team on the backend. Bringing in Robidas as a free agent addition to form a 2nd pair that can take some difficult matchups should be a step in the right direction to help Phaneuf and the team.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Dion was 33rd last season in TOI/G amongst NHL d-men behind some pretty prominent names and some not so prominent. McDonaugh played more minutes than Dion and Girardi almost the same, yet the Rangers went to the finals with 2 D playing that much. A lot of teams play their top d-man a lot of minutes. Dion has not been his best under pressure, but I doubt it has to do with overplayed or misused.

It's been brought up many times how many minutes Phaneuf plays, that others play more and don't seem so tired etc. Perhaps you should consider that all minutes aren't created equal.

Think about what a PP looks like. The PP guys are standing in one spot much of the time, or moving slowly getting into position while the guys on the PK are frantically scrambling back and forth desperately trying to make sure everyone is covered. No question who is spending more energy here.

Not only does Dion get a lot of PK minutes, that's only a small part of it. Because the Leafs are hemmed in their own zone most of the game, the same concept applies. The other team has their d-man standing on the points basically resting while Dion is trying to deal with the best forwards on the other team in from the net.

Because of how bad the team is, and how poor his partners have been, Dion plays possibly the hardest and most draining minutes in the entire league. Looking at TOI does not tell the whole story. The fact that Dion plays as much as he does in these circumstances and even manages to finish the year as a plus player is pretty impressive if you think about it a bit. And the fact that he played as well as he did the previous year while carrying Kostka on his back is a minor miracle.

Based on the crap thrown at him here I'd say that Dion Phaneuf = one of the most underrated players in the NHL.

What are you talking about? some people are holding out Dion as better than Subban....which is a huge joke!

I never started this discussion about Subban so maybe go to that person with your complaint.



Lets say he is worth 7 Million a year but not the 7 years and more like 5 years....that would still be 14M too much and that makes his contract horrible. That still puts it at 2M per year to much when you average it out over the term of the contract.

Um, what are you talking about? Please so show us these posts claiming Dion is better. When you can't find any, perhaps you can admit you're wrong just this once.

 

[diceman934]

Lots of people think Dion's contract is an over payment.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/desperate-contracts-hinder-leafs-future/

Look at his contract if we bought him out after this season we would have paid him 11.5 million this year, 8m in salary and 3.5m in signing bonus. Then we would still owe him 30.16M in a buy out $21,666,667, in addition to $8,500,000 in signing bonuses. That adds up to 41.66M Million only saving us 7.34 M over the 6 years remaining.

That is what makes his contract horrible and why he is on the list.

 

[Duke Silver]

Look at his contract if we bought him out after this season we would have paid him 11.5 million this year, 8m in salary and 3.5m in signing bonus. Then we would still owe him 30.16M in a buy out $21,666,667, in addition to $8,500,000 in signing bonuses. That adds up to 41.66M Million only saving us 7.34 M over the 6 years remaining.

That is what makes his contract horrible and why he is on the list.

His contract is awful because if we bought him out 1 year into a 7 year contract it would affect us negatively? You don't say!

Good thing that the entire purpose of signing a player to a 7-year contract is to see that player play out the tenure of his contract...

What an asinine argument. Is this what running out of arguments looks like?

Still waiting....

 

[Gallagbi]

Lots of people think Dion's contract is an over payment.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/desperate-contracts-hinder-leafs-future/

Look at his contract if we bought him out after this season we would have paid him 11.5 million this year, 8m in salary and 3.5m in signing bonus. Then we would still owe him 30.16M in a buy out $21,666,667, in addition to $8,500,000 in signing bonuses. That adds up to 41.66M Million only saving us 7.34 M over the 6 years remaining.

That is what makes his contract horrible and why he is on the list.

I'm pretty sure the 8 mill includes 3.5 in signing bonuses.

 

[hockeyfanz*]

What I don't understand is why everybody is so up in arms...its such a injustice!! Its blasphemous and heinous...its ridiculously biased reporting and horribly wrong...

The Leafs have been top 3 worst teams in the entire NHL for a good 10 year span...is it so inconceivable that they would have 2 of the top 10 worst contracts in hockey?

Really? Is is that difficult to accept?

Of course we know the blame lies on the backup goalie..the #7 defenceman and the fourth line. It all makes sense.

Its possible that the Leafs actually have more than two of the top ten worst contracts....considering they are up against the cap every year and a bottom 10 team.

 

[Gary Nylund]

his contract is awful because if we bought him out 1 year into a 7 year contract it would affect us negatively? You don't say!

good thing that the entire purpose of signing a player to a 7-year contract is to see that player play out the tenure of his contract...

What an asinine argument. Is this what running out of arguments looks like?

still waiting....

roflmao.

 

[Joey Hoser]

Lots of people think Dion's contract is an over payment.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/desperate-contracts-hinder-leafs-future/

Look at his contract if we bought him out after this season we would have paid him 11.5 million this year, 8m in salary and 3.5m in signing bonus. Then we would still owe him 30.16M in a buy out $21,666,667, in addition to $8,500,000 in signing bonuses. That adds up to 41.66M Million only saving us 7.34 M over the 6 years remaining.

That is what makes his contract horrible and why he is on the list.

He isn't remotely close to being a buyout candidate so that doesn't make any sense. I'm sure buying out Subban or Weber would suck too.

 

[diceman934]

His contract is awful because if we bought him out 1 year into a 7 year contract it would affect us negatively? You don't say!

Good thing that the entire purpose of signing a player to a 7-year contract is to see that player play out the tenure of his contract...

What an asinine argument. Is this what running out of arguments looks like?

Still waiting....

You will be waiting for ever....you posted nothing to refute my claim that Gunnar was better then Dion Defensively.....and when you posted that post, you posted an insult which was deleted and I will not reply to any posts that include an insult.

People can not have it both ways.....Clarksons contract is horrible because it is bulletproof and two much money, same as Dion's it is a horrible contract, the term is two years to long as well as the Signing bonuses....

 

[Kessley Snipes*]

You will be waiting for ever....you posted nothing to refute my claim that Gunnar was better then Dion Defensively.....and when you posted that post, you posted an insult which was deleted and I will not reply to any posts that include an insult.

People can not have it both ways.....Clarksons contract is horrible because it is bulletproof and two much money, same as Dion's it is a horrible contract, the term is two years to long as well as the Signing bonuses....

It must be so difficult for you when facts get in the way of a good bias.

 

[ACC1224]

His contract is awful because if we bought him out 1 year into a 7 year contract it would affect us negatively? You don't say!

Good thing that the entire purpose of signing a player to a 7-year contract is to see that player play out the tenure of his contract...

What an asinine argument. Is this what running out of arguments looks like?

Still waiting....

This is some funny stuff. He can't be serious?

 

[Ricky Bobby]

Lots of people think Dion's contract is an over payment.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/desperate-contracts-hinder-leafs-future/

Look at his contract if we bought him out after this season we would have paid him 11.5 million this year, 8m in salary and 3.5m in signing bonus. Then we would still owe him 30.16M in a buy out $21,666,667, in addition to $8,500,000 in signing bonuses. That adds up to 41.66M Million only saving us 7.34 M over the 6 years remaining.

That is what makes his contract horrible and why he is on the list.

Frontloading contracts in real dollars as much as possible for a rich team like the Leafs is a very smart move. That way if they look to trade that player down the road he'll be more attractive to teams that have internal budget concerns.

It's no different then how the Clarkson, Lupul, Kessel deals were structured.

Phaneuf isn't getting bought out after this year. Not a chance! It's great that you highlighted how the numbers work. I could also post some big numbers for any player that recently received a big contract and say oh wow that would be a lot to buyout player X.

 

[Gary Nylund]

You will be waiting for ever....you posted nothing to refute my claim that Gunnar was better then Dion Defensively.....and when you posted that post, you posted an insult which was deleted and I will not reply to any posts that include an insult.

People can not have it both ways.....Clarksons contract is horrible because it is bulletproof and two much money, same as Dion's it is a horrible contract, the term is two years to long as well as the Signing bonuses....

What about me - I'm still waiting you to show us those posts which claim Dion is better than Subban. You did say that right?

I would say Clarkson's contract isn't two much money, more like three much money.

 

[Kessley Snipes*]

What about me - I'm still waiting you to show us those posts which claim Dion is better than Subban. You did say that right?

I would say Clarkson's contract isn't two much money, more like three much money.

This thread is another classic example of HF posters not understanding basic statistics. It's like posting with people who graduated from the Don Cherry school of hockey analysis.

 

[Bluelines]

Although I believe $9mil is excessive for PK at this point, not sure your points prove his contract is any worse than Dion's(whose I don't think is horrible, but also is not good)

You bring up how little PK played on the Olympic team to prove how little he is trusted defensively...you do realize Dion wasn't even selected for the team...right? Not sure how being selected to the Olympic team as a 24 year old and not playing ahead of the likes of Doughty, Keith, Piet, etc proves you are not trusted defensively.

He also played his most 5 on 5 minutes against Kessel, Phaneuf, JVR, Bozak and Gunnar...Toronto's top line and top D pairing. Was this not one of the most offensively explosive lines in the NHL last year?

No PK does not play much PK duty, but that may have more to do with the fact the Habs had Gorges, Emelin, Markov who could play on the PK while the Leafs had, well, no one.

As for his GM not wanting to give $9mil...I doubt anyone thought PK was getting $9mil...not even PK.

My response was more about how people over value Subban. If you have a Norris winner on any team, a guy who is supposed to be the best D-man in professionial hockey, this guy should be playing ahead of the likes of Doughty, Keith, Piet, etc. , he should be playing the msot 5 on 5, 5 on 4 and 4 on 5 minutes on the team. You don't shelter these Norris winners, you play them as much as possible.

 

[diceman934]

Frontloading contracts in real dollars as much as possible for a rich team like the Leafs is a very smart move. That way if they look to trade that player down the road he'll be more attractive to teams that have internal budget concerns.

It's no different then how the Clarkson, Lupul, Kessel deals were structured.

Phaneuf isn't getting bought out after this year. Not a chance! It's great that you highlighted how the numbers work. I could also post some big numbers for any player that recently received a big contract and say oh wow that would be a lot to buyout player X.

I agree that teams front load contracts make players more attractive down the road in real money, but by adding in Bonus money into the contract, it is paid dollar for dollar on a buyout and makes buying out and moving the contract difficult.

I agree that Dion is not going to get bought out any time soon, but it does not change the fact that his contract is structure in a way that makes it less likely to happen. We are discussing the players contracts in this thread, I simply posted as to why his contract is a bad one. Two years to long and the structure of the deal makes it so.

PS: Thanks for an adult like debate as always! No laughing and insults just an opinion supported by examples or data!

 

[Bluelines]

And rises to the occasion when it matters. Instead of falling apart.

How did he do in the last 10 games of the playoffs last year?

 

[diceman934]

It must be so difficult for you when facts get in the way of a good bias.

Why not post some facts....to prove that I'm bais.

Gunnar was better defensively last year then Dion....that is a fact based on stats.

Less goals scored against Gunnar when playing more minutes on the PK. Remember he played a lot of PK minutes with Franson etc as Dion was in the Box.
Less total goals scored against Gunnar 5 on 5 while playing against nearly the same tough opponents.
A Higher plus player.