TV: The Sopranos Discussion Thread

[tarheelhockey]

Meadows roommate wasnt really an arc, she didnt have screen time when Meadow or Noah weren't there. Her problems were just to cause problems for Meadow.

If that were the case, they could have just made her an annoyance, or given her really bad gas, or something.

They set her up to be a ticking time bomb who was going to explode at some point and cause Meadow massive guilt. And that was setting up as a parallel to Meadow's SJW-style concern for various minorities, as opposed to the struggling and isolated person that was literally right in front of her every single day. And then, one day, that person just disappeared. It was a dropped arc.

Melfis rape wasnt dropped, it ended

That's... not how rape works.

Melfi continued to put herself in a room alone with a very large man whose uncomfortably premature declaration of love had developed into a habit of physically intimidating her, and who we know was having sexual fantasies about her. The fact that she had recently been violently raped by all means should have been a factor in those scenes. It was actually maybe a little irresponsible for the screenwriters to introduce the rape scene and then just drop it as though the whole thing was neatly tucked into bed after she decided not to have her rapist murdered by a gang lord.

What was the next thing the FBI did after the lamp was compromised?

No idea.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Hehe. Neither have I. I just got tired of the debates of the final ending so I came up with something different.

I'll fully admit that it's likely not the case but just something else to consider.

Don't you guys listen? It was the Russian.

 

[DaaaaB's]

I haven't really been able to get on the Tony is dead train because who wanted him dead? Phil was killed. I think he ended up jailed after Carlo snitched.

Posts like this simply amaze me. Who wanted him dead? The Lupertazzis, probably the other New York families, possibly members of his own crime family, other non-Italian criminal organizations. Did you read this thread at all before posting?

 

[Sticksandsun]

Posts like this simply amaze me. Who wanted him dead? The Lupertazzis, probably the other New York families, possibly members of his own crime family, other non-Italian criminal organizations. Did you read this thread at all before posting?

I think Tony is alive, also the pool cue up your butt is bigger than the one up Vitos.

 

[Mr Fahrenheit]

If that were the case, they could have just made her an annoyance, or given her really bad gas, or something.

They set her up to be a ticking time bomb who was going to explode at some point and cause Meadow massive guilt. And that was setting up as a parallel to Meadow's SJW-style concern for various minorities, as opposed to the struggling and isolated person that was literally right in front of her every single day. And then, one day, that person just disappeared. It was a dropped arc.

They werent building her up to explode, they were making her annoy the crap out of Meadow and Noah, driving them apart and Meadow back home. They werent going to be roommates forever

That's... not how rape works.

Melfi continued to put herself in a room alone with a very large man whose uncomfortably premature declaration of love had developed into a habit of physically intimidating her, and who we know was having sexual fantasies about her. The fact that she had recently been violently raped by all means should have been a factor in those scenes. It was actually maybe a little irresponsible for the screenwriters to introduce the rape scene and then just drop it as though the whole thing was neatly tucked into bed after she decided not to have her rapist murdered by a gang lord.

.....? Whats not how rape works? I didnt mention anything about how rape works so a little confused

Melfi was on edge in her first session back and jumped at her cane but Tony is someone she has known for years and she even said she broke down in tears when Tony offered to walk her to her car. The "arc" absolutely ended when the episode ended on her "no". There was nothing else, they clearly ended any involvement with Rossi and there was nothing to show with Melfi having any ptsd being afraid of Tony raping her, its not like those were the times he jumped at her threatening her

 

[Mickey Marner]

I think the Melfi rape storyline was more about her moral dilemma of dealing with her temptation for vigilante justice, rather than the rape itself. I know I felt myself cheering for her to ask Tony to deal with the perp, but she ended up being incorruptible, or at least as much as any character in the show was allowed to be.

Later on when Tony was confessing his lust for her, I think it was mostly about him not getting what he wants. Perhaps she enjoyed being lusted after in theory, which is why she allowed the therapy to continue even when it became uncomfortable, but clearly she was too repulsed by Tony to allow it to go anywhere.

As we are effectively viewing this story through Tony's eyes it will be somewhat biased towards his point of view. The rape is only pertinent to the story as long as it relates to Tony in some capacity.

 

[DaaaaB's]

I think Tony is alive, also the pool cue up your butt is bigger than the one up Vitos.

He definitely got killed.

 

[tarheelhockey]

The rape is only pertinent to the story as long as it relates to Tony in some capacity.

If we're being honest here, that's shitty storywriting. A very recent, very violent rape is enough to completely implode a person's life from the inside out. There's a certain cheapness to introducing it with a... what, top-3 character in the show?... and not to have any lasting significance beyond a brief sideline with the main character. If that's the treatment, then simply not doing it at all would have been the better writing option.

 

[chicagoskycam]

I think the Melfi rape storyline was more about her moral dilemma of dealing with her temptation for vigilante justice, rather than the rape itself. I know I felt myself cheering for her to ask Tony to deal with the perp, but she ended up being incorruptible, or at least as much as any character in the show was allowed to be.

Later on when Tony was confessing his lust for her, I think it was mostly about him not getting what he wants. Perhaps she enjoyed being lusted after in theory, which is why she allowed the therapy to continue even when it became uncomfortable, but clearly she was too repulsed by Tony to allow it to go anywhere.

As we are effectively viewing this story through Tony's eyes it will be somewhat biased towards his point of view. The rape is only pertinent to the story as long as it relates to Tony in some capacity.

Agreed, the obvious route was Tony would do something about it and the audience is dying for him to find out but it never happens. It's also a huge test of Melfi's character not to cross that line when many people probably would. Many in her field would have stopped treating him long ago but this was too far for her.

 

[chicagoskycam]

If we're being honest here, that's shitty storywriting. A very recent, very violent rape is enough to completely implode a person's life from the inside out. There's a certain cheapness to introducing it with a... what, top-3 character in the show?... and not to have any lasting significance beyond a brief sideline with the main character. If that's the treatment, then simply not doing it at all would have been the better writing option.

I think it also speaks to Melif's character in not crossing that line. It was very significant in her story as they spent several episodes on the fallout after.

 

[tarheelhockey]

I think it also speaks to Melif's character in not crossing that line. It was very significant in her story as they spent several episodes on the fallout after.

Absolutely, all I'm saying is it's weak to conclude the story arc of the violent rape of a core character entirely with a single decision whether to have the attacker whacked or not. That's not a resolution for rape. It's not even a resolution for simply being mad about something. Tony holds on to grudges for years on end, and often has to decide where to draw the line on retaliation (e.g. the fight with Bobby) which is good writing because it digs deep into his conflicts. Melfi's like "nah I don't want this guy brutally murdered" less than halfway through the series and we're supposed to accept that the subject will never be touched on again?

Part of the issue is that the incredibly intense rape scene seems like it was just a temporary plot device, like the lamp, rather than an event that was intended to have a deep and meaningful impact over the subsequent seasons. I think it's OK to admire the show as a whole, and also call it out for giving shallow treatment to something so serious as having a main character raped on-screen.

 

[chicagoskycam]

Absolutely, all I'm saying is it's weak to conclude the story arc of the violent rape of a core character entirely with a single decision whether to have the attacker whacked or not. That's not a resolution for rape. It's not even a resolution for simply being mad about something. Tony holds on to grudges for years on end, and often has to decide where to draw the line on retaliation (e.g. the fight with Bobby) which is good writing because it digs deep into his conflicts. Melfi's like "nah I don't want this guy brutally murdered" less than halfway through the series and we're supposed to accept that the subject will never be touched on again?

Part of the issue is that the incredibly intense rape scene seems like it was just a temporary plot device, like the lamp, rather than an event that was intended to have a deep and meaningful impact over the subsequent seasons. I think it's OK to admire the show as a whole, and also call it out for giving shallow treatment to something so serious as having a main character raped on-screen.

Yeah, I just don't think they had the time to address it with so many other storylines going on. The lamp is different, it was shown as an attempt to get Tony that failed, the next one being Aid.

 

[John Price]

I dno't think I'll ever eat rabbit again after what Artie Bucco did to the rabbit eating his garden lol

What his wife said was true though. Most people don't eat rabbit.

 

[Mickey Marner]

If we're being honest here, that's shitty storywriting. A very recent, very violent rape is enough to completely implode a person's life from the inside out. There's a certain cheapness to introducing it with a... what, top-3 character in the show?... and not to have any lasting significance beyond a brief sideline with the main character. If that's the treatment, then simply not doing it at all would have been the better writing option.

I think it's mostly a matter of fitting into the shows purview. Introducing a rape scene and leaving it without a resolution is in poor taste no doubt, but that's part of the theme of the show. Ralphie was murdered for killing a horse off-screen -or at least it was the last straw- not for brutally beating his girlfriend to death on screen. Hell, we don't even actually see Tony get clipped and the show was about him!

I think the lack of resolution and subverting expectations was intentional, not necessarily sloppy writing, though it may have been both in this instance. And while we didn't see any long-term resolution or consequences of the rape, we did see Melfi go though the process of vicariously imagining deal Tony will it and gaining some satisfaction from that.



The show makes a point of critiquing psychiatry, those who practice it and its ability to resolve issues. For example, Elliot and her other psychiatrist friends are only interested that Tony is her patient because he's a famous mobster who makes the tabloids. Even if the show were to focus on her recovery, I don't think there's a happy ending to it. She would just go to her own therapist, who she arguably shouldn't be seeing herself as he's too familiar and smarmy to help her. Dropping the storyline altogether may well have been a mercy killing for the viewer.

 

[Legionnaire]

It's wasn't in poor taste at all. It was a statement.

Person gets raped. Gets no justice. Struggles with morality and shame. Substance abuse. Forced to move on.

Doesn't that happen all too often?

 

[tarheelhockey]

It's wasn't in poor taste at all. It was a statement.

Person gets raped. Gets no justice. Struggles with morality and shame. Substance abuse. Forced to move on.

Doesn't that happen all too often?

Not when the "forced to move on" part means just moving on like it never happened.

 

[Legionnaire]

Not when the "forced to move on" part means just moving on like it never happened.

It's what people have do every day. It becomes a matter of survival.

Edit: How much time do you think goes on between episodes? She was likely struggling with it, in therapy, and abusing drugs and alcohol for a year.

 

[tarheelhockey]

It's what people have do every day. It becomes a matter of survival.

Then portray it as a matter of survival, rather than simply not returning to address it for 4 years.

 

[Legionnaire]

Then portray it as a matter of survival, rather than simply not returning to address it for 4 years.

That wasn't the statement.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Edit: How much time do you think goes on between episodes? She was likely struggling with it, in therapy, and abusing drugs and alcohol for a year.

We can read that stuff into her character, but it wasn't written into the show. If we're having to construct the plot on behalf of the screenwriters, imagining the character is experiencing personal dynamics behind the scenes which aren't captured in the actual script, that's a problem with the script.

That aspect of the show, and a few other similar dropped arcs, just wasn't written that well. I love the Sopranos, I think it was a phenomenal show with some of the best screenwriting of all time, and I get that there are only so many minutes of screen time to tell a complicated story. But that doesn't mean it was a perfect crystal... there are still flaws, cases where "cut for time" left big chunks of the narrative unexplored or outright ignored. It's a reality of Hollywood and unfortunately, has detrimental effects even on the highest quality productions.

 

[John Price]

Who killed Tony Soprano?

 

[Voight]

A day late but still..... an all time classic

 

[Incubajerks]

I dno't think I'll ever eat rabbit again after what Artie Bucco did to the rabbit eating his garden lol

What his wife said was true though. Most people don't eat rabbit.

Rabbit meat is very good, it is a highly nutritious and at the same time highly digestible meat. Not being Jewish is part of my culinary culture, then if someone prefers not to eat it...we say "de gustibus". It is very difficult to cook, or at least it is not as simple as other types of meat, in fact it costs more.

 

[Juve]

A day late but still..... an all time classic

My favorite episode of the entire series.

 

[Make]

A day late but still..... an all time classic

The angry frustration Gandolfini plays at 40.00 mark is one of my favourite acting moments of the series. Just a small moment but so genuine. He was such a great "anger actor".