Sportsnet: The Score: Systems Analysis of Leafs recent loss to Detroit

[Wami]

Sorry if this has been posted already, did a search and didn't come up with any matches.

Just came across this article which breaks down the three rush goals against us when facing the wings on Tuesday.

http://blogs.thescore.com/nhl/2014/...rush-chances-to-beat-the-leafs-whos-to-blame/

I found it to be pretty in-depth and great breakdown of how we allowed those three rush goals (2 by Nyquist and 1 by Alfy..).

The article seems to vindicate critics of our D-core, with a couple shots at the defensive coverage of Bozak slipped in there. Basically, the defense made some pretty glaring errors which led to those goals, and broken down frame by frame it's pretty damning evidence that our blue line is leaving Reimer out to dry.

Yes, the other thing to note about the article is that it takes a shot at those who criticize Reimer for bad play (at least during this game). Essentially, when it comes to Reimer's responsibility, I think the author sufficiently proved that Reimer had pretty much no chance on any of the goals.

The specific defensemen that dropped the ball were Franson, Gleason, and Gardiner...

Anyway, I love this stuff so I just wanted to share!

Click to read more...

 

[Gary Nylund]

Sorry if this has been posted already, did a search and didn't come up with any matches.

Just came across this article which breaks down the three rush goals against us when facing the wings on Tuesday.

http://blogs.thescore.com/nhl/2014/...rush-chances-to-beat-the-leafs-whos-to-blame/

I found it to be pretty in-depth and great breakdown of how we allowed those three rush goals (2 by Nyquist and 1 by Alfy..).

The article seems to vindicate critics of our D-core, with a couple shots at the defensive coverage of Bozak slipped in there. Basically, the defense made some pretty glaring errors which led to those goals, and broken down frame by frame it's pretty damning evidence that our blue line is leaving Reimer out to dry.

Yes, the other thing to note about the article is that it takes a shot at those who criticize Reimer for bad play (at least during this game). Essentially, when it comes to Reimer's responsibility, I think the author sufficiently proved that Reimer had pretty much no chance on any of the goals.

The specific defensemen that dropped the ball were Franson, Gleason, and Gardiner...

Anyway, I love this stuff so I just wanted to share!

Good stuff, thanks for sharing. Those blaming Reimer for our recent woes are way off.

 

[I am Canadian]

This isn't going to get popular because its actual logic to why the game wasn't Reimer's fault. That's not really a popular opinion right now.

The only goal Leaf fans should be upset with is possibly the first one. Still, when your defence gives up a breakaway does it really make any sense to blame the goalie?

 

[HamiltonNHL]

"sufficiently proved that Reimer had pretty much no chance on any of the goals. "

Goals:
(1) A breakaway (he knocked the puck in himself)
(2) Odd angle shot
(3) Alfie's shot from the slot

All three could have been stopped. No chance ? Please.
(1) was stopped, but he knocked it in himself ?
(2) should have been stopped.
(3) could have been stopped.

It's not impossible to say the Bernier might have stopped 1,2,or 3 of those goals.
I don't think Reimer played poorly.
But he didn't get the W and Bernier is a better goalie.
IMO.

 

[Diatomic]

Reimer needs to STEAL games to make this team look acceptable.

 

[Wami]

"sufficiently proved that Reimer had pretty much no chance on any of the goals. "

Goals:
(1) A breakaway (he knocked the puck in himself)
(2) Odd angle shot
(3) Alfie's shot from the slot

All three could have been stopped. No chance ? Please.
(1) was stopped, but he knocked it in himself ?
(2) should have been stopped.
(3) could have been stopped.

It's not impossible to say the Bernier might have stopped 1,2,or 3 of those goals.
I don't think Reimer played poorly.
But he didn't get the W and Bernier is a better goalie.
IMO.

Semantics, of course there's always a chance that a goalie could make the stop. The larger point was that the blame doesn't fall on primarily (or even marginally, IMO) on Reimer. The piece stands as a counterweight to prevailing opinions that Reimer **** the bed in the Detroit game, that's the major take-away.

As a side note, the fact that you believe the second goal should have been stopped is disrespectful of the absolute perfect snipe that Nyquist let off. If you actually read the article, I should clarify that the gif of the shot was in slow-motion.

 

[pucci2001]

I am not saying any of this is right or wrong, I don't dispute Reimer can be a good a good goalie but the flaws in his game and the flaws our current dmen dont mesh well. He is a rebound machine with a slow glove and he can't play the puck for ****. He is incredibly athletic but it results in him making acrobatic saves even for shots that do not require them. Its very unorthodox.

He has an unpredictable style of playing the position. If he can work on fundamentals such as getting out of his crease and challenging, playing the puck(or having the sense to just stay in the crease) and controlling rebounds slightly better he no doubt can be a really good goalie for a team that controls the front of their net.

Right now our team does a poor job clearing the front of the net and combining that with his poor job of holding onto the puck and you have a recipe for disaster. I am not absolving our defense but Reimer is not a god. He is not better than Bernier The "hate" that people often call it isn't so much that as much as it is people just love Bernier. Reimer just doesn't have the presence in net Bernier does. People talk poorly of Reimer because we expect him to be able to steal some games for us, sadly this season it has been needed more often than it should be but Bernier has produced pretty solidly for us and Reimer has let in more stinkers than Bernier has in not nearly as many games.

When you don't play often and you play sub-par to good while letting in stinkers people remember that and think oh god not Reimer again. Reimers play against Tampa Bay 1 minute in instantly validates people that think that way. He was unlucky with the timing but from the standpoint, sadly he labelled himself.

Unless he puts up a shutout(or outstanding performance) before Bernier is back people won't forgive and forget. Inconsistency and the frequency of bad goals is what led to the Bernier signing. The most consistent thing about James is that he will let in a bad goal about every 3 games or so and that he will always be a class act no matter what happens. You guys don't need to prove anything about why he is good or bad because honestly it doesn't really matter. We are stuck with him until the summer when we aren't. He will be moved and depending what team he moves to will depend if he gets better or worse, he won't instantly make a bad team good and he wont make a good team much better either. He is just a slightly above average goalie with peaks and valleys in his game that he needs to straighten out before he reaches the level we wish and I think he thinks he is at.

This is just my opinion but I feel a lot of us Leaf fans feel very similarly. There are some haters out there but like with everything there are always idiots and they usually voice their opinions the loudest. There is a difference between hate and criticism. Clarkson gets hate, Reimer gets critiqued... to death.

 

[Eb]

This isn't going to get popular because its actual logic to why the game wasn't Reimer's fault. That's not really a popular opinion right now.

Reimer needs to STEAL games to make this team look acceptable.

Unfortunately, this is true...

 

[Wami]

I am not saying any of this is right or wrong, I don't dispute Reimer can be a good a good goalie but the flaws in his game and the flaws our current dmen dont mesh well. He is a rebound machine with a slow glove and he can't play the puck for ****. He is incredibly athletic but it results in him making acrobatic saves even for shots that do not require them. Its very unorthodox.

He has an unpredictable style of playing the position. If he can work on fundamentals such as getting out of his crease and challenging, playing the puck(or having the sense to just stay in the crease) and controlling rebounds slightly better he no doubt can be a really good goalie for a team that controls the front of their net.

Right now our team does a poor job clearing the front of the net and combining that with his poor job of holding onto the puck and you have a recipe for disaster. I am not absolving our defense but Reimer is not a god. He is not better than Bernier The "hate" that people often call it isn't so much that as much as it is people just love Bernier. Reimer just doesn't have the presence in net Bernier does. People talk poorly of Reimer because we expect him to be able to steal some games for us, sadly this season it has been needed more often than it should be but Bernier has produced pretty solidly for us and Reimer has let in more stinkers than Bernier has in not nearly as many games.

When you don't play often and you play sub-par to good while letting in stinkers people remember that and think oh god not Reimer again. Reimers play against Tampa Bay 1 minute in instantly validates people that think that way. He was unlucky with the timing but from the standpoint, sadly he labelled himself.

Unless he puts up a shutout(or outstanding performance) before Bernier is back people won't forgive and forget. Inconsistency and the frequency of bad goals is what led to the Bernier signing. The most consistent thing about James is that he will let in a bad goal about every 3 games or so and that he will always be a class act no matter what happens. You guys don't need to prove anything about why he is good or bad because honestly it doesn't really matter. We are stuck with him until the summer when we aren't. He will be moved and depending what team he moves to will depend if he gets better or worse, he won't instantly make a bad team good and he wont make a good team much better either. He is just a slightly above average goalie with peaks and valleys in his game that he needs to straighten out before he reaches the level we wish and I think he thinks he is at.

This is just my opinion but I feel a lot of us Leaf fans feel very similarly. There are some haters out there but like with everything there are always idiots and they usually voice their opinions the loudest. There is a difference between hate and criticism. Clarkson gets hate, Reimer gets critiqued... to death.

I'm glad you posted this, because I actually want to clarify that I agree wholeheartedly with the bolded sections of your post. I think the article is great for understanding how our forwards and defensemen hung Reimer out to dry for those goals, but beyond that I am actually in the Bernier camp. Reimer is not on his level in my opinion.

Reimer would be a high risk goalie on most teams, but with a competent D-core and and defensively aware forwards I believe he would do a great job. I like the article for the fact that it shows that the trouble starts with our D-core and forwards, and Reimer just isn't the absolute game-stealing monster in net that we need him to be in order to win games and overcome these major lapses.

 

[Leafidelity]

I wonder why we don't need these with Bernier in net

 

[HamiltonNHL]

As a side note, the fact that you believe the second goal should have been stopped is disrespectful of the absolute perfect snipe that Nyquist let off. If you actually read the article, I should clarify that the gif of the shot was in slow-motion.

It's the NHL, odd angle shots should be stopped.

It wasn't a "bad" miss by Reimer, but wrist shots from that part of the ice shouldn't go in for a NHL goalie, IMO.

 

[pucci2001]

I'm glad you posted this, because I actually want to clarify that I agree wholeheartedly with the bolded sections of your post. I think the article is great for understanding how our forwards and defensemen hung Reimer out to dry for those goals, but beyond that I am actually in the Bernier camp. Reimer is not on his level in my opinion.

Reimer would be a high risk goalie on most teams, but with a competent D-core and and defensively aware forwards I believe he would do a great job. I like the article for the fact that it shows that the trouble starts with our D-core and forwards, and Reimer just isn't the absolute game-stealing monster in net that we need him to be in order to win games and overcome these major lapses.

I feel Reimer compounds the issue with our skaters. Bernier has a good feel for the game and makes a concentrated effort at times to stop play, Reimer struggles with that aspect of his game he is always just battling in there. I feel like he doesn't always think of what he can do on top of stopping pucks to help the team. There is a lot more to playing goalie than blocking pucks, for the most part that is where Reimer needs to improve.

 

[Wami]

It's the NHL, odd angle shots should be stopped.

It wasn't a "bad" miss by Reimer, but wrist shots from that part of the ice shouldn't go in for a NHL goalie, IMO.

Different angle. You're referencing a still frame on a suspect angle, Reimer was square to the shooter when the shot went off. Honestly, telling me that shot should be stopped in the NHL borders arrogance. It's an unreal shot.

 

[Leafidelity]

You can't see Reimer favoring the glovehand?

 

[Leafidelity]

http://www.d1hockey.com/MichiganState/hockey_math1.shtml

He had 15 square feet of net to shoot at before you equate for the goalie coming out of the net. Such an angle that most coaches would advise against taking a shot from there.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

I don't think this is the scoring zone.

It was a great shot.

To save the Leafs, you need a goalie that will be "Lights out" and will steal some games.
Bernier is our best chance.

I didn't blame Reimer, but he didn't steal the game either.

 

[Wami]

I don't think this is the scoring zone.

It was a great shot.

To save the Leafs, you need a goalie that will be "Lights out" and will steal some games.
Bernier is our best chance.

I didn't blame Reimer, but he didn't steal the game either.

No argument here, I agree.

http://www.d1hockey.com/MichiganState/hockey_math1.shtml

He had 15 square feet of net to shoot at before you equate for the goalie coming out of the net. Such an angle that most coaches would advise against taking a shot from there.

I keep clicking back and forth, sorry, maybe I'm just having a slow day - but what is the point you're trying to make?

 

[Leafidelity]

I keep clicking back and forth, sorry, maybe I'm just having a slow day - but what is the point you're trying to make?

I'm saying it's a tough angle to let that in from. He's either sliding over too far or he's overcompensating his glove a bit. Nyquist did catch him with a nice shot though.

 

[johnny_rudeboy]

As I said in the game thread, I dont blame Reimer for any goal but the first, and that was a save he should not have had to make in the first place.

This team is terrible defensively and we have to many forwards who cheat in the offensive zone to bolster their offensive stats. I guess they might think they are helping the team with their goals and assists but if you are one the ice for more goals against then for then you are not doing it right.

 

[cookie]

I keep clicking back and forth, sorry, maybe I'm just having a slow day - but what is the point you're trying to make?

Basically saying that coaches apparently forbid their players taking shots on the net from the dot. Well-placed shots that have some speed behind them shouldn't be taken when you're rushing off the wing and have a shooting opportunity because at that particular position, you don't have much net to shoot at.

By the way that's sarcasm.

What posters criticizing Reimer are forgetting is the fact that ALL goalies would have had trouble with a perfect shot like that. If Reimer cheats in the opposite direction, don't you think the shooter Nyquist would go short-side? Getting beat on the short-side also has the added stigma that the goalie wasn't competitive enough (at least to my coach). The fact that Nyquist had to take a perfect shot speaks volumes about the position Reimer put himself in against a moving target.

Also... where's the props to Nyquist?

 

[cack]

Reimer needs to STEAL games to make this team look acceptable.

Reimer needs to stop impersonating Toskala first.

 

[johnny_rudeboy]

Reimer needs to stop impersonating Toskala first.

Point is, our goalies gets very little support. If they are not able to steal a game we will most likely lose.

 

[cookie]

Reimer needs to STEAL games to make this team look acceptable.

Exactly. This team is so sucky that even with good goaltending they lose. They need games to be stolen. Fact of the matter is that we're the only team in playoff contention in the east with a negative GF GA differential. Put the best goalie in the world behind them and we still would not have the record of the top teams in the East.

The fact the we give up so many shots each game used to be something we could hide behind at the start of the year. They were from outside and low quality. Now these shots are becoming grade-A scoring chances and our players are doing a fine job impersonating someone with PTSD.

I wouldn't even put much of the blame on Carlyle. It seems these players, particularly the wingers and the defensemen, would have had a hard time following a strategy other than collapse in front of the net.

 

[cack]

Point is, our goalies gets very little support. If they are not able to steal a game we will most likely lose.

A goalie that plays like a beached whale every other game is not going to steal anyone many games.

 

[johnny_rudeboy]

A goalie that plays like a beached whale every other game is not going to steal anyone many games.

A goalie should not have to steal a game. It is great when they do but if they have to it means the rest of the players are having a bad game.