Salary Cap: The Salary Cap Thread | Trust me... nothing has changed.

[Gurglesons]

You're forgetting Hanzal but they can slide Spezza to wing if they want.

Yeah, totally forgot that. Shore played wing if I remember right too.

I still don't see Dallas moving any of their centers for anything but D. Depends on like Cole said though what happens to them to begin the year.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

The issue is that he had to play 19 minutes a game for an entire season to get that level of production, which isn't even that special in the first place. Girgensons had a 1.33 ES points/60 in 2013-2014 and a 1.49 ES points/60 in 2014-2015, which isn't even that good anyway. For comparison, Bonino in 2015-2016 was at 2.08 ES points/60 when he was MIA for the first 50 games of that season and was at 1.49 ES points/60 last season (he wasn't good at all at ES last year, but he still matched Girgensons' best).

If Girgensons matched his career best in ES points/60, he would match what Bonino did at ES last year (which was not good, I should reiterate), assuming you gave Girgensons the same minutes and zone starts that Bonino got. Take Bonino's production, take out his PP production and I think you'd have what Girgensons would do as a 3C here most likely: around 12 goals and 25 points. Oddly enough, that's almost exactly the same as what Sutter produced in 2013-2014. I don't think that's awful production, especially when he would be playing super heavy defensive minutes, but that's not exactly good 3C production. Maybe he could do more by playing more offensive wingers with him (maybe getting Kessel more defensive zone starts would actually help improve his production, because it allows him to streak down the ice and use his speed and shot), but I'm not sure if you want to put guys like Sheary or Guentzel in heavy defensive minutes

Perhaps I should have stated it as close enough to replace Bonino's offense instead. The overall point being, if Girgensons produces closer to his pre-Bylsma production, he'd be able to provide roughly 30-35 points of offense to go along with, IMO, better defense and (while not overly important) more physicality from that 3C position. He's also at an age where expecting some improvements in his offensive upside isn't out of the question.

A lot depends on just how much of Girgensons' decline is due to him simply not taking that next step (or even regressing) and how much is due to Bylsma being Bylsma. As we've seen in Pittsburgh, Bylsma doesn't have much patience for young players. So you either play well, or you get your minutes reduced. He won't actually help a young guy fix whatever is the issue.

Keep in mind Girgensons isn't even one of my preferred targets. I just think that, if the Pens go the "cheap option" route, he brings some of what we'd need from that 3C to the table to at least consider him as an option.

 

[Rufus]

Pass on Johnson. Term is too much for me to be comfortable taking him on

 

[Shady Machine]

Yeah, totally forgot that. Shore played wing if I remember right too.

I still don't see Dallas moving any of their centers for anything but D. Depends on like Cole said though what happens to them to begin the year.

I agree. We don't have what they are looking for. Everyone likes futures but they don't have any incentive to move their young centers for picks or decent young wingers.

 

[madinsomniac]

I know Sheary is on everyone's trade list, but its not common for a guy to sign long term then be traded asap.... i think him getting that deal means he is mostly off the shopping list....

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Is this one of those "inconsistencies" you are pointing out?

Because, once again it seems like trolling. 5 x 7 and 4x4 are completely different deals. Not to mention Johnson has a NTC for the first four years. Like I said, in a vacuum Tyler Johnson is a great player. I think you can judge his value in Tampa based on most of them being pretty weary of the term.

Can't wait until next time I post and you bring up another thing I've said in relation to something completely different!

I can't figure out why you're framing Johnson's term as a negative relative to Bonino's. It takes him to the same age as Bonino's does (33) except he's 2 years younger so we get 2 more years of his prime, and he makes less than a mil per more than Bones with a lot fewer question marks.

Johnson is also a considerably more productive player (especially in the post-season, where he's just behind Ovie at 11th in P/G among active players, whereas Bones is 83rd https://www.hockey-reference.com/pl...1val=40&threshhold=5&order_by=points_per_game) and despite the impression given of him as injury-prone, the games missed between he and Bones over the last 2 years didn't hit double-digits.

That he has an NTC is an issue, but not one that affects his desirability. Categorizing his contract as "ugly" seems unfounded, unless you'd like to share another reason.

 

[Gurglesons]

I can't figure out why you're framing Johnson's term as a negative relative to Bonino's. It takes him to the same age as Bonino's does (33) except he's 2 years younger so we get 2 more years of his prime, and he makes less than a mil per more than Bones with a lot fewer question marks.

Johnson is also a considerably more productive player (especially in the post-season, where he's just behind Ovie at 11th in P/G among active players, whereas Bones is 83rd https://www.hockey-reference.com/pl...1val=40&threshhold=5&order_by=points_per_game) and despite the impression given of him as injury-prone, the games missed between he and Bones over the last 2 years didn't hit double-digits.

That he has an NTC is an issue, but not one that affects his desirability. Categorizing his contract as "ugly" seems unfounded, unless you'd like to share another reason.

First off, I never framed anything you created that assumption because you follow my posts like a hound to prove me wrong.

Second, you don't need to defend Johnson over Bonino to me. I think Johnson is a better player. Glad you created me saying that though.

Third, as a team with three long term contracts likely adding one more with Murray, I'd avoid adding one for a 3C which is why I think the contract is bad.

If you read my posts you'd realize I made these exact points already. But I guess it is easier to make me sound like a bumbling idiot by connecting my posts as if they somehow imply I said Bonino and Johnson are equal players.

Finally, Johnson isn't being traded and I'd go take a look how Tampa fans feel about the term to get an honest view of how people that actually watch him play feel about that contract.

 

[Pens x]

So we are comparing Bones to players that aren't even rumored to be available?

Interesting

 

[HandshakeLine]

I'm so old I remember when Pens board meltdowns were about Derrick Pouliot vs. Justin Schultz.

 

[ColePens]

So we are comparing Bones to players that aren't even rumored to be available?

Interesting

Didn't you promise you wouldn't get worked up anymore? It didn't last 2 days.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

I'm so old I remember when Pens board meltdowns were about Derrick Pouliot vs. Justin Schultz.

The good old days before we didn't have a 3C, it was truly the peak.

 

[madinsomniac]

Didn't you promise you wouldn't get worked up anymore? It didn't last 2 days.

Cole, Out of curiosity.... in your opinion what teams in the league wouldn't trade their entire roster for ours this year?

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Cole, Out of curiosity.... in your opinion what teams in the league wouldn't trade their entire roster for ours this year?

Nashville, Rangers, and Minnesota.

 

[ColePens]

Cole, Out of curiosity.... in your opinion what teams in the league wouldn't trade their entire roster for ours this year?

Nashville, Rangers, and Minnesota.

StK hopefully being sarcastic. Not a single team in the NHL wouldn't swap places with us. Not a single one.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

StK hopefully being sarcastic. Not a single team in the NHL wouldn't swap places with us. Not a single one.

Nashville (Bonino), Rangers (Desharnais), and Minnesota (Cullen).

Given the discussion over the past few pages over the doom and gloom of losing our 3C/4C and how big an impact not having a replacement for those "key" positions are, I thought I was being a bit more obvious about why I mentioned those three teams. Guess not.

 

[ColePens]

Now I get it.

 

[Shaffer]

Maybe Toronto wouldn't

 

[Pens x]

Maybe Toronto wouldn't

Probably not Edmonton with their young guns.

 

[Shady Machine]

Swap rosters with us for just this season? Not many but coming off two long Cup runs, I suppose a young fresher team like Edmonton or Toronto might take their chances with what they have. Nashville might say the same. Maybe Dallas. Anyway, it's a short list of any at all.

 

[Shaffer]

I bet the Avs would keep their roster

 

[NeedleInTheHay]

Swap rosters with us for just this season? Not many but coming off two long Cup runs, I suppose a young fresher team like Edmonton or Toronto might take their chances with what they have. Nashville might say the same. Maybe Dallas. Anyway, it's a short list of any at all.

Can we stop under rating our team?

we're on the verge of a damn dynasty, and maybe Dallas wouldn't trade rosters with us, are you freaking serious right now?

I also can't wait for the Nashville regression this year so people stop overhyping them.

 

[AjaxTelamon]

Can we stop under rating our team?

we're on the verge of a damn dynasty, and maybe Dallas wouldn't trade rosters with us, are you freaking serious right now?

I also can't wait for the Nashville regression this year so people stop overhyping them.

Bigtime. I would not be the least bit surprised if they miss the playoffs. They were the 16 seed this past year.

Our roster is about as good as a salary cap team can be right now, to the point where we may soon have more talent than we can put on the ice. Keep in mind, a big chunk of our young players have yet to peak. Yeah, we have some guys who might be past their peak, but Sid and Geno still look pretty dominant out there.

What if Murray, Sheary, Jake, Rust, Wilson, Dumo, Maatta and even Schultz improve this year?

 

[Empoleon8771]

Nashville rode a hot goalie to the cup finals and were promptly exposed in the finals. Or, better yet, their goalie was. Especially in the Central with a goalie as inconsistent as Rinne, I find it more likely they miss the playoffs than they have a repeat of what they did last year.

 

[Gurglesons]

Nashville rode a hot goalie to the cup finals and were promptly exposed in the finals. Or, better yet, their goalie was. Especially in the Central with a goalie as inconsistent as Rinne, I find it more likely they miss the playoffs than they have a repeat of what they did last year.

Uh. They were picked by like half the pundits to make the finals after the Subban trade.

They have the best roster in the league after us. Rinne is their weak point.

Also, they pretty much outplayed us in the series outside Game 4 and 5.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Uh. They were picked by like half the pundits to make the finals after the Subban trade.

They have the best roster in the league after us. Rinne is their weak point.

Also, they pretty much outplayed us in the series outside Game 4 and 5.

Nashville's center depth last year was nothing to write home about. After Johansen went down they had a now retired Mike Fisher and a fluky playoff run Scissons as their next best two centers.

IMO, that could cause them problems going forward, especially if Rinne doesn't play out of his mind like he did the first 3 rounds.