The Roster Thread, Summer 2024

[Fjordy]

Something around Power for Marner is what I'm really interested in. He's a disappearing act in the playoffs but he would immediately be our best forward. I dont know if Power ever turns into more than what he is.

That and buying out Skinner is where I would start.

Marner has NMC and is a UFA in a year, doesn't look very interesting.

 

[Jim Bob]

Marner has NMC and is a UFA in a year, doesn't look very interesting.

I like Marner more than many. But, no thanks to giving up anything more than Skinner and a prospect for me. And Toronto isn't doing that deal and Paul Marner is unlikely to allow Mitch to waive to Buffalo.

 

[Gabrielor]

Something around Power for Marner is what I'm really interested in. He's a disappearing act in the playoffs but he would immediately be our best forward. I dont know if Power ever turns into more than what he is.

That and buying out Skinner is where I would start.

never.

 

[Sabresbyswords104]

So what can the team do now? Looks like the 3-4 line is shit. Adams need to yrade Done young players and 1 pick to fill out the roster. Any trade we Will do that make sense?

 

[Sabresbyswords104]

I would hope They trade Greenway, not bringing back any ufa . Guentzel or someone coming here ?

 

[Willgamesh]

Something around Power for Marner is what I'm really interested in. He's a disappearing act in the playoffs but he would immediately be our best forward. I dont know if Power ever turns into more than what he is.

That and buying out Skinner is where I would start.

Yeh you're right most Defense stop developing and are finished products at 21 with 163 games played. Thanks for the wisdom seer.

 

[MOGlLNY]

I would hope They trade Greenway, not bringing back any ufa . Guentzel or someone coming here ?

lmao you want to trade Greenway? One of the only guys who understands his role and does it?

 

[TehDoak]

You still don't get it. This is not the NFL.

NHL prospects often need 5-6 years to marinade before they will be impact players in the league.

When you were screaming to trade everyone under the sun back in 2021, the young guys were too young to carry the weight of the core. Trading picks and prospects back then would only drain the farm, and the guys you brought in 3 years ago would be all UFAs now, and riding off to greener pastures with other teams, or demanding huge UFA contracts that this team could not fit under the cap. The team would be devoid of young talent on ELCs coming up through the pipeline to infuse talent into the roster on the cheap(because you traded all those picks 3 years ago), and would have to bargain-bin shop the UFA leftovers for the only guys you could afford, more tired 7th defensemen and 13th forwards that would be willing to come here for league min.

Reality is, had Adams sold off the picks and prospects that early in the rebuild, the team likely would have made the playoffs as a bubble team, been bounced in the first round and be looking at a disappointing future now.

Timing.

Is.

Everything.

Adams not improving the team in the summer of 2021, 22, and 23 are the reasons we missed the playoffs in 2023 and 2024

The volume of draft picks was way over the top. The unused cap space was a wasted resource. Adams was keeping a budget not building a team.

There isn’t a good defense for Adams inaction the last 3 years. The difference this year, I hope, is pressure is being applied downward from ownership (and Ruff) to win now.

 

[HogtownSabresfan]

Marner has NMC and is a UFA in a year, doesn't look very interesting.

No joke. LOL. The deals that people come up with in here. Power isn't Chris Pronger, so let's trade a #1 overall who had 6 goals and 33 points and was a plus 8 in year two of his career who doesn't turn 22 until November and is locked down for seven years for Marner who has one year until he is a UFA and would be a rental.

 

[Gabrielor]

Adams not improving the team in the summer of 2021, 22, and 23 are the reasons we missed the playoffs in 2023 and 2024

The volume of draft picks was way over the top. The unused cap space was a wasted resource. Adams was keeping a budget not building a team.

This is right.

There isn’t a good defense for Adams inaction the last 3 years. The difference this year, I hope, is pressure is being applied downward from ownership (and Ruff) to win now.

This is also right.

Adams doesn't get credit for inaction. Get Dahlin and co. playoff experience. They're the guys you're counting on most. Not Ostlund, Kulich, and Savoie.

 

[HogtownSabresfan]

The Sabres are not trading serious prospects for rentals. It won't happen and shouldn't. Sure, if you can get a guy like Boone Jenner, who has two years (three would be better), then you can let prospects. Otherwise, go overpay for guys like Max Domi (not suggesting him specifically) on one-year deals to fill out the roster. Pegula has to spend to the cap. The $8 M he left on table could have bought two decent players this last year, I get save some money for rookies bonuses but some of that $8 M can be spent.

 

[OkimLom]

Adams not improving the team in the summer of 2021, 22, and 23 are the reasons we missed the playoffs in 2023 and 2024

The volume of draft picks was way over the top. The unused cap space was a wasted resource. Adams was keeping a budget not building a team.

There isn’t a good defense for Adams inaction the last 3 years. The difference this year, I hope, is pressure is being applied downward from ownership (and Ruff) to win now.

Thing is, the team's deficiencies weren't of the high value aspect, where we would need to use more than one "high end" prospect to address of the needs of the team. We had a decent enough amount of talent on the roster. They had the talent that most teams would use said cupboard of assets on. It was the mid picks and prospects that probably could've been used to address certain holes.

What the team required was better goaltending (not that hard in a league where after the top 5 goalies in the league the gap of talent isn't massive among the rest of goaltenders), and they needed more/better veteran support and role players.

At the very most they might've needed to move one of the better prospects which we could've easily recouped ANY of those years. And they could've recouped any draft picks they could've used during the building by using their wealth of cap space they decided not to weaponize.

Adams because of his inaction and over-abundance of confidence his own plan/opinion, didn't give a chance to not only develop young players, but also missed the time to succeed. He could've had unexpected quality experiences for the kids with them making it to the playoffs. It didn't take much investment on his end, and he could've easily put Krebs on the Amerks for development, or traded off Olofsson for better support/role players, but he was too worried of making sure his prospects didn't have a path blocked instead.

 

[TehDoak]

Thing is, the team's deficiencies weren't of the high value aspect, where we would need to use more than one "high end" prospect to address of the needs of the team. We had a decent enough amount of talent on the roster. They had the talent that most teams would use said cupboard of assets on. It was the mid picks and prospects that probably could've been used to address certain holes.

What the team required was better goaltending (not that hard in a league where after the top 5 goalies in the league the gap of talent isn't massive among the rest of goaltenders), and they needed more/better veteran support and role players.

At the very most they might've needed to move one of the better prospects which we could've easily recouped ANY of those years. And they could've recouped any draft picks they could've used during the building by using their wealth of cap space they decided not to weaponize.

Adams because of his inaction and over-abundance of confidence his own plan/opinion, didn't give a chance to not only develop young players, but also missed the time to succeed. He could've had unexpected quality experiences for the kids with them making it to the playoffs. It didn't take much investment on his end, and he could've easily put Krebs on the Amerks for development, or traded off Olofsson for better support/role players, but he was too worried of making sure his prospects didn't have a path blocked instead.

The year we had the biggest needs (2021) was probably the right time to at least be a little patient. They had just finished dead last and were waiting for the return on the Eichel deal. The needs were so numerous then, they could have added at least one piece. But, starting in 2022, they had a decent proof of concept going with the Thompson line and had clear, attainable needs. They needed a middle six center that was decent defensively, a top 4 d-man, and a goalie.

Not exactly easy items, but attainable. Especially considering we had 3 1st round picks and just taken 4 picks in the first two rounds in the previous draft. But...only thing Adams did was sign a backup goalie who had passed through waivers several times to be the starter. Considering everything went right last season, seeing the missed opportunity the summer before was painful.

The next year, the needs were basically the same....Adams went out and got 2 bottom pair d-men. I did like the Greenway pickup, but in the end, more was needed. Adams did several victory laps after missing the playoffs by a point and then wondered aloud why the team was so full of themselves this year when they hadn't accomplished anything

I am actually quite concerned with the solutions Adams comes to given he hasn't really been a buyer before as a GM and when he has he was going off the coaches shopping list (Hall and Greenway)

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

You still don't get it. This is not the NFL.

NHL prospects often need 5-6 years to marinade before they will be impact players in the league.

When you were screaming to trade everyone under the sun back in 2021, the young guys were too young to carry the weight of the core. Trading picks and prospects back then would only drain the farm, and the guys you brought in 3 years ago would be all UFAs now, and riding off to greener pastures with other teams, or demanding huge UFA contracts that this team could not fit under the cap. The team would be devoid of young talent on ELCs coming up through the pipeline to infuse talent into the roster on the cheap(because you traded all those picks 3 years ago), and would have to bargain-bin shop the UFA leftovers for the only guys you could afford, more tired 7th defensemen and 13th forwards that would be willing to come here for league min.

Reality is, had Adams sold off the picks and prospects that early in the rebuild, the team likely would have made the playoffs as a bubble team, been bounced in the first round and be looking at a disappointing future now.

Timing.

Is.

Everything.

There is almost no reality for this team that is worse than 13 years an no playoffs. This straw man argument, saying you can either sit on everyone until 2024 or sell off everything like Tim Murray is a dumb and wrong. There were a ton of options to do better than Adams has done, and you wrongly paint it as binary...per usual. Utter nonsense.

 

[Beerz]

Something around Power for Marner is what I'm really interested in. He's a disappearing act in the playoffs but he would immediately be our best forward. I dont know if Power ever turns into more than what he is.

That and buying out Skinner is where I would start.

Even I say no to this. Marner contract is already ugly..next one gonna be worse.

I like Marner more than many. But, no thanks to giving up anything more than Skinner and a prospect for me. And Toronto isn't doing that deal and Paul Marner is unlikely to allow Mitch to waive to Buffalo.

I guess I'm missing the Paul Marner angle?

 

[Jim Bob]

I guess I'm missing the Paul Marner angle?

Paul, Mitch's dad, is known to have been pretty controlling when it comes to career decisions for Mitch.

It was a tongue-in-cheek way of expressing my opinion that there is a greater chance that the Sabres win the draft lottery and get Celebrini than there is that Marner waives his NMC to accept a trade to Buffalo.

 

[Beerz]

 

[Beerz]

This isn't a good look.

 

[joshjull]

When do you see a spot for them on the roster? Answer: never. They need to be traded, and the sooner you do it, the less value they lose. As it is, Rosen was probably worth more as a raw draft pick than he is now. I could be wrong but I’d guess most teams would prefer our first rounder than him, a former first rounder.

Possibly, it would depend on few things like organizational needs, their view on Rosen’s upside, etc.

Rosen is tough example for this. He’s hardly played in the Swedish mens league and didn’t start developing at that level until he came here last year. He had a solid AHL rookie year and then took another step forward this season. Barring regression, I don’t see his value dropping. It may even go up if he keeps progressing.

We should be open to trading any of the young forwards to improve the team. But there is no urgency to trade them. Rosen has 2yrs left on his ELC. Kulich, Savoie and Ostlund are starting their 3yr ELCs next season. They can’t go anywhere and are cheap NHL depth that doesn’t have to be rostered. Which has value to us or any team they get traded to.

Worrying about them losing value is overblown. It’s too early in their development to be worry about that yet. They are a few years of performing well below expectations from starting losing value. I mean they are 20/21yr olds just starting their pro careers. EdIt: Although Rosen had impressive head start as a teenager and Kulich even more so.

 

[TehDoak]

Possibly, it would depend on few things like organizational needs, their view on Rosen’s upside, etc.

Rosen is tough example for this. He’s hardly played in the Swedish mens league and didn’t start developing at that level until he came here last year. He had a solid AHL rookie year and then took another step forward this season. Barring regression, I don’t see his value dropping. It may even go up if he keeps progressing.

We should be open to trading any of the young forwards to improve the team. But there is no urgency to trade them. Rosen has 2yrs left on his ELC. Kulich, Savoie and Ostlund are starting their 3yr ELCs next season. They can’t go anywhere and are cheap NHL depth that doesn’t have to be rostered. Which has value to us or any team they get traded to.

Worrying about them losing value is overblown. It’s too early in their development to be worry about that yet. They are a few years of performing well below expectations from starting losing value. I mean they are 20/21yr olds just starting their pro careers.

I mean, the issue is going to be tied to the player development. The more success we have, the more of a problem is coming.

The worst case scenario is we start rebuild 4 in two years and none of the guys drafted pan out. You don't have to worry then because everyone sucks.

The best case scenario is that everyone pans out and there's no room on our roster for them because our NHL team is so successful. Of course, then its a good problem to have.

What will happen is somewhere in between

I mean, I think it is probably logical to thin the herd a bit, especially with the forward prospects.

We've drafted 11 forwards in the top 3 rounds the last 3 years. 5 of them in the 1st.

The only one out of the system currently is Josh Bloom, who was a 3rd rounder.

Not all of them will develop. But more than a few will. Even at a 50% success rate, you won't be able to graduate 5 forwards in the next 3 years, most likely. So it makes sense to move out a few bodies this summer.

 

[Jim Bob]

I mean, the issue is going to be tied to the player development. The more success we have, the more of a problem is coming.

The worst case scenario is we start rebuild 4 in two years and none of the guys drafted pan out. You don't have to worry then because everyone sucks.

The best case scenario is that everyone pans out and there's no room on our roster for them because our NHL team is so successful. Of course, then its a good problem to have.

What will happen is somewhere in between

I mean, I think it is probably logical to thin the herd a bit, especially with the forward prospects.

We've drafted 11 forwards in the top 3 rounds the last 3 years. 5 of them in the 1st.

The only one out of the system currently is Josh Bloom, who was a 3rd rounder.

Not all of them will develop. But more than a few will. Even at a 50% success rate, you won't be able to graduate 5 forwards in the next 3 years, most likely. So it makes sense to move out a few bodies this summer.

The other thing to really think about, especially with the coaching change, is what type of player will fit for the roles on the roster.

The dream of just playing 4 scoring lines should be dead to anyone paying attention. Whenever I hear someone say that Kulich could play on the fourth line next season on a Sabres podcast, I just laugh.

I think the biggest challenge is that so many of the forwards that they have drafted do not have a ton of up and down the lineup flexibility. If you have 8 young NHLers and prospects that have either developed into or project to be top 6 wingers...

 

[enthusiast]

Power for Marner seems like it would come back to bite the Sabres even though I do hold Mitch in high esteem

I wonder if they’d have interest in Cozens++

 

[MOGlLNY]

Power for Marner seems like it would come back to bite the Sabres even though I do hold Mitch in high esteem

I wonder if they’d have interest in Cozens++

Why would we do that after trading Mitts? Puts an even bigger crater at the center position.

 

[TehDoak]

The other thing to really think about, especially with the coaching change, is what type of player will fit for the roles on the roster.

The dream of just playing 4 scoring lines should be dead to anyone paying attention. Whenever I hear someone say that Kulich could play on the fourth line next season on a Sabres podcast, I just laugh.

I think the biggest challenge is that so many of the forwards that they have drafted do not have a ton of up and down the lineup flexibility. If you have 8 young NHLers and prospects that have either developed into or project to be top 6 wingers...

The idea of 3 scoring lines should be dead. They tried that under Granato and it fell flat. You want at least one line that logs significant minutes to be good both ways. After that You have one line that can outscore their defensive issues and are a net positive and either another decent two way line OR a line you can shelter defensively. Then your fourth line is a utility line.

The Sabres have lacked the line can play well in their own zone and contribute offensively.

I am very curious to see how Ruff handles that problem. Cozens could be the two way guy they utilize if they change his role a bit, the question is what wingers are there. Is Greenway too much of a black hole offensively to be useful? Granato ran Greenway-Cozens-Benson a bit to limited success on offense. Or do we need an outside center/winger to make it work productively?

 

[Jim Bob]

Why would we do that after trading Mitts? Puts an even bigger crater at the center position.

Why would the Sabres do that with Marner a year away from UFA, as well?

A $10M+ AAV winger is not what this roster needs to add no matter who they are trading him for unless we get a half-dozen people drunk and can deal Skinner and '26 2nd for Marner.