The Roster Thread, Summer 2024

[Chainshot]

Big fish? Well, they certainly have floundered.

 

[Jim Bob]

Big fish? Well, they certainly have floundered.

The next couple of months and Sabres fans, content creators, and media speculating on stuff that is highly unlikely to happen is going to be fun.

As will calls that I'm being a downer if I talk about how unlikely it will be to get certain players to waive NMCs or NTCs to come here or get certain UFAs to sign here...

 

[BuiltTagonTough]

Truly didn't notice the date on the tweet and was SO confused about you bringing up the old Stamkos speculation.

It's gonna be a very long few months lol.

 

[Archie Lee]

That would be an absolute game changer, I love it. Those RD both have term and are both good so I think the price would be much higher if you're asking for both Dowd and one of them. Rosen + Ostlund or a protected 1st.

Would Joki be of any interest to them, to help them get younger? I just can't see them swapping out either of those Dmen under nice contracts for Joki without being paid handsomely for it.

I would be fine with acquiring Dowd and one of those D from Washington. I can’t begin to express, though, how disappointed I would be that we tore it down again and refused to move any prospects for the last two seasons, only to then trade Ostlund and Rosen for a year of Dowd and two years of TVR.

 

[Jim Bob]

I still think that the most likely outcome is that Skinner is back for the 2024-25 season.

 

[HaNotsri]

We are only a couple of years away now for the ultra slow rebuild to start giving returns.
I think we should make trades but I'd stay away from making multiple big ones.

If you look at the Eichel, Risto, Reinhart and Mittelstadt returns they are just 1-3 years away from making an impact.

I want improvement this summerbut next year will likely focus as much on development as the last two. Hopefully while being more competetive.

 

[TehDoak]

We are only a couple of years away now for the ultra slow rebuild to start giving returns.
I think we should make trades but I'd stay away from making multiple big ones.

If you look at the Eichel, Risto, Reinhart and Mittelstadt returns they are just 1-3 years away from making an impact.

I want improvement this summerbut next year will likely focus as much on development as the last two. Hopefully while being more competetive.

While being patient certainly has it virtues, the franchise is at a critical point.

You can't simply make incremental changes and hope for the best anymore. The interest in the team might be at an all time low. They are mining the nostalgia vein bringing back Ruff, and that will give them a little boost to start the season, but unless that comes with wins, those seats will be empty come November.

The Sabres have almost lost an entire generation of fans. Anyone in the late teens/early 20s barely remember when the Sabres were good (if at all). I remember when I was in my early 20s, it was 05-06, and I traveled all over the country to watch the team and drove hours from Michigan where I was living to watch the games. And I grew up with Lafontaine and hasek. Fans today that age simply don't have good memories of the team being good or the excitement of a deep playoff run.

The Sabres need a return to relevance and a reason to get excited. Playoff games in April/May do that. The team being out of it by the trade deadline does not.

I don't think anyone is expecting (or wants) the Sabres to take a Tim Murray-esque chunk out of the prospect pool/draft picks. But they have a surplus of prospects right now. It is time to thin the prospect ranks to get immediate help. And yes, one prospect you trade might turn into a star in a few years. And that is ok. It's simply that critical of a time for the team.

It's time to spend the capital and get the Sabres back in the playoffs and the fans back in the seats. I'm not sure the fanbase can withstand many more bad years.

 

[Reddawg]

I still think that the most likely outcome is that Skinner is back for the 2024-25 season.

By far.

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

I would be fine with acquiring Dowd and one of those D from Washington. I can’t begin to express, though, how disappointed I would be that we tore it down again and refused to move any prospects for the last two seasons, only to then trade Ostlund and Rosen for a year of Dowd and two years of TVR.

That’s what happens when you sit on prospects too long. Neither of them are guaranteed NHL players, much less good ones.

 

[Archie Lee]

That’s what happens when you sit on prospects too long. Neither of them are guaranteed NHL players, much less good ones.

Trading Ostlund and Rosen for Dowd and TVR would be the exact opposite of sitting on prospects too long.

 

[Jim Bob]

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

Trading Ostlund and Rosen for Dowd and TVR would be the exact opposite of sitting on prospects too long.

When do you see a spot for them on the roster? Answer: never. They need to be traded, and the sooner you do it, the less value they lose. As it is, Rosen was probably worth more as a raw draft pick than he is now. I could be wrong but I’d guess most teams would prefer our first rounder than him, a former first rounder.

 

[Beerz]

When do you see a spot for them on the roster? Answer: never. They need to be traded, and the sooner you do it, the less value they lose. As it is, Rosen was probably worth more as a raw draft pick than he is now. I could be wrong but I’d guess most teams would prefer our first rounder than him, a former first rounder.

There is a difference between trading your prospects and trading them for a bump of 1 to 2 years when you are not realistically competing for a Cup

 

[HaNotsri]

While being patient certainly has it virtues, the franchise is at a critical point.

You can't simply make incremental changes and hope for the best anymore. The interest in the team might be at an all time low. They are mining the nostalgia vein bringing back Ruff, and that will give them a little boost to start the season, but unless that comes with wins, those seats will be empty come November.

The Sabres have almost lost an entire generation of fans. Anyone in the late teens/early 20s barely remember when the Sabres were good (if at all). I remember when I was in my early 20s, it was 05-06, and I traveled all over the country to watch the team and drove hours from Michigan where I was living to watch the games. And I grew up with Lafontaine and hasek. Fans today that age simply don't have good memories of the team being good or the excitement of a deep playoff run.

The Sabres need a return to relevance and a reason to get excited. Playoff games in April/May do that. The team being out of it by the trade deadline does not.

I don't think anyone is expecting (or wants) the Sabres to take a Tim Murray-esque chunk out of the prospect pool/draft picks. But they have a surplus of prospects right now. It is time to thin the prospect ranks to get immediate help. And yes, one prospect you trade might turn into a star in a few years. And that is ok. It's simply that critical of a time for the team.

It's time to spend the capital and get the Sabres back in the playoffs and the fans back in the seats. I'm not sure the fanbase can withstand many more bad years.

I think the time to really spend was a year ago. They blew it and now we are close to having two "generations" of prospects on the team.

At this point I'd rather keep Kulich, Östlund, Savoie, Benson and Levi. If we can find a 1C or 2C I'd absolutely want us to trade for that to stop being a donut team but trading our prospects for "veteran help" probably won't help much.

I'm more in the camp of trading picks. I would entertain picking up a one year rental to help the team next season.

I think the main problems are:
Heavily invested in a defensive core that isn't ready.
High ceiling, low floor goaltending.
Lack of centers, ideally we need to find three good ones.

 

[Chainshot]

The next couple of months and Sabres fans, content creators, and media speculating on stuff that is highly unlikely to happen is going to be fun.

As will calls that I'm being a downer if I talk about how unlikely it will be to get certain players to waive NMCs or NTCs to come here or get certain UFAs to sign here...

So you’re saying it would be a fluke if they landed a whale?


The fish puns are real.

 

[Jim Bob]

So you’re saying it would be a fluke if they landed a whale?


The fish puns are real.

I cannot wait for my 50th birthday to get here...

Although, people will still be saying they can make big moves during late July and August even though they rarely happen...

 

[TehDoak]

I think the time to really spend was a year ago. They blew it and now we are close to having two "generations" of prospects on the team.

At this point I'd rather keep Kulich, Östlund, Savoie, Benson and Levi. If we can find a 1C or 2C I'd absolutely want us to trade for that to stop being a donut team but trading our prospects for "veteran help" probably won't help much.

I'm more in the camp of trading picks. I would entertain picking up a one year rental to help the team next season.

I think the main problems are:
Heavily invested in a defensive core that isn't ready.
High ceiling, low floor goaltending.
Lack of centers, ideally we need to find three good ones.

I mean, the time for adding players was the summer after drafting power and every summer since. Adams real sin was running the team so cheap with so many ELC players. Plenty of important roles have gone unfilled and there has been a lack of veteran mentors for the young guys. Tuch was really the only good vet we've added, and that was at the expense of Eichel. Leadership can't come from 2 guys that are a decade + older than most of the team.

 

[Dingo44]

I cannot wait for my 50th birthday to get here...

Although, people will still be saying they can make big moves during late July and August even though they rarely happen...

It's the Draft, July 1, then nothing honestly.

 

[Chainshot]

I cannot wait for my 50th birthday to get here...

Although, people will still be saying they can make big moves during late July and August even though they rarely happen...

Watching my hockey feed where people who follow other teams are quote tweeting some Sabre Twitter regulars in some variation of either gobsmacked horror or straight up comedy mockery is amusing.

 

[Chainshot]

I would be fine with acquiring Dowd and one of those D from Washington. I can’t begin to express, though, how disappointed I would be that we tore it down again and refused to move any prospects for the last two seasons, only to then trade Ostlund and Rosen for a year of Dowd and two years of TVR.

Yeah, I can see your point.

I would rather they make draft pick offers on filler and try to make a 2-for-1 higher in the lineup honestly.

 

[DJN21]

While being patient certainly has it virtues, the franchise is at a critical point.

You can't simply make incremental changes and hope for the best anymore. The interest in the team might be at an all time low. They are mining the nostalgia vein bringing back Ruff, and that will give them a little boost to start the season, but unless that comes with wins, those seats will be empty come November.

The Sabres have almost lost an entire generation of fans. Anyone in the late teens/early 20s barely remember when the Sabres were good (if at all). I remember when I was in my early 20s, it was 05-06, and I traveled all over the country to watch the team and drove hours from Michigan where I was living to watch the games. And I grew up with Lafontaine and hasek. Fans today that age simply don't have good memories of the team being good or the excitement of a deep playoff run.

The Sabres need a return to relevance and a reason to get excited. Playoff games in April/May do that. The team being out of it by the trade deadline does not.

I don't think anyone is expecting (or wants) the Sabres to take a Tim Murray-esque chunk out of the prospect pool/draft picks. But they have a surplus of prospects right now. It is time to thin the prospect ranks to get immediate help. And yes, one prospect you trade might turn into a star in a few years. And that is ok. It's simply that critical of a time for the team.

It's time to spend the capital and get the Sabres back in the playoffs and the fans back in the seats. I'm not sure the fanbase can withstand many more bad years.

Post of the day.

 

[TehDoak]

I cannot wait for my 50th birthday to get here...

Although, people will still be saying they can make big moves during late July and August even though they rarely happen...

So, at first blush, this is laughable.

Tortella + Skinner + NMC on both sides.

But, the value is impeccable for the Flyers, they will immediately buyout Skinner. That's 15M of cap spread over 6 years instead of 46.5M. Skinner would obviously waive if it met he was able to go out and get on the market.

But, the flip side is, that is a horrible deal for the Sabres. So instead of 27M, we're signing up for 46.5M for a player who won't live up to his contract.

But....if you turn this into a math problem. 46.5 minus 27M = 19.5M. Over 6 years: 3.25M.

So, at a 42% retention rate, it'd be Couturier at 4.5M over 6 years...or 27M.

Let's look at it from the flyers perspective now:

15M to buyout skinner spread over 6 years (with the bad poison pill in 2) + 3.25M over six years.

So you are spending 15M+ 19.5M, 34.5M to not have any players, why not simply just buyout Couturier? Well, because the buyout cost is 40M and it sucks because of how buyout heavy it is

Sean Couturier Buyout Results - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

Sean Couturier buyout results and details including cost calculations, savings and final cap hit

www.capfriendly.com

So, this deal actually still saves the flyers around 5M in cash and it gets rid of any trailing years of buyout issue.

Buffalo gets a guy who is a 3C to start and probably devolves into a 4C in a few years. Good leadership skill, constant injuries. I mean, there is a chance he simply doesn't finish this contract given how the injuries have piled up or he finishes the deal on LTIR.

There is, of course, the issue of Couturiers NMC, but I am curious given how much he doesn't like it in Philly now, if the opportunity in Buffalo to play may present itself as appealing. And Philly likely can't trade him unless there is an equally bad contract coming back.

 

[Chainshot]

So, at first blush, this is laughable.

Tortella + Skinner + NMC on both sides.

But, the value is impeccable for the Flyers, they will immediately buyout Skinner. That's 15M of cap spread over 6 years instead of 46.5M. Skinner would obviously waive if it met he was able to go out and get on the market.

But, the flip side is, that is a horrible deal for the Sabres. So instead of 27M, we're signing up for 46.5M for a player who won't live up to his contract.

But....if you turn this into a math problem. 46.5 minus 27M = 19.5M. Over 6 years: 3.25M.

So, at a 42% retention rate, it'd be Couturier at 4.5M over 6 years...or 27M.

Let's look at it from the flyers perspective now:

15M to buyout skinner spread over 6 years (with the bad poison pill in 2) + 3.25M over six years.

So you are spending 15M+ 19.5M, 34.5M to not have any players, why not simply just buyout Couturier? Well, because the buyout cost is 40M and it sucks because of how buyout heavy it is

Sean Couturier Buyout Results - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

Sean Couturier buyout results and details including cost calculations, savings and final cap hit

www.capfriendly.com

So, this deal actually still saves the flyers around 5M in cash and it gets rid of any trailing years of buyout issue.

Buffalo gets a guy who is a 3C to start and probably devolves into a 4C in a few years. Good leadership skill, constant injuries. I mean, there is a chance he simply doesn't finish this contract given how the injuries have piled up or he finishes the deal on LTIR.

There is, of course, the issue of Couturiers NMC, but I am curious given how much he doesn't like it in Philly now, if the opportunity in Buffalo to play may present itself as appealing. And Philly likely can't trade him unless there is an equally bad contract coming back.

Consider the originator - there are a couple of active voices in that community who I wouldn't trust to put together a mite team.

 

[TehDoak]

Consider the originator - there are a couple of active voices in that community who I wouldn't trust to put together a mite team.

The premise of the deal is stupid, sure. 'Gritty warrior in, soft winger out!' without looking at the actual play over the last few years.

But...if you consider them just bad contracts and make the numbers, essentially, match, its a possibility. Especially if ownership is dead set on not buying out Skinner for whatever reason. I'd rather overpay Couterier on a retained deal than keep Skinner. He's declining, but there is still some tread left on the tire.

 

[Jim Bob]

It's the Draft, July 1, then nothing honestly.

The prime window for reshaping a roster starts the week before the draft and ends around 7/15 (my birthday is 7/9, hence the comment about my birthday).

Yet last year, when I said that I didn't expect much to happen after the Clifton and EJ signings happened that first week of UFA, I had so many people telling me that I was being too pessimistic and big moves could still happen.

And we all saw how that played out...

The premise of the deal is stupid, sure. 'Gritty warrior in, soft winger out!' without looking at the actual play over the last few years.

But...if you consider them just bad contracts and make the numbers, essentially, match, its a possibility. Especially if ownership is dead set on not buying out Skinner for whatever reason. I'd rather overpay Couterier on a retained deal than keep Skinner. He's declining, but there is still some tread left on the tire.

Coots is 31yo, is already showing signs of wearing down, and has 6 more seasons left on his deal with a $7.75M AAV.

I can't see the Flyers retaining enough to make it worth it with him being on that contract until he's 37yo.