Does Zemgus stick around? I'm guessing yes, but wouldn't he want to play for a team considered more of a sure thing?
The Roster Thread, Summer 2024
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MarkusKetterer
Shoulda got one game in
Zemgus grew up being a Sabres fan. The only way he’ll leave is if the Sabres have no interest in him being a member of the team.
Snippit
Registered User
- Dec 5, 2012
- 16,628
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we need to try and poach some of Vegas’ guys. Roy, Carrier, Amadio…all way better bottom 6 options than what we have.
My Cozen Dylan
Registered User
The guy sure doesn't seem like he cares about winning given how many times he has chosen to stay here.
Buyout Skinner
Colton for Kulich
Trenin UFA
Armia + Kovacevic for Rosen
Benson Thompson Tuch
Quinn Cozens Peterka
Greenway Colton Savoie
Trenin Krebs Armia
Girgensons
Byram Dahlin
Power Kovacevic
Sammy Joker
Clifton
UPL (50 starts)
Levi (25 starts in BUF 25 starts in ROC)
Vet goalie (7 starts)
Colton for Kulich
Trenin UFA
Armia + Kovacevic for Rosen
Benson Thompson Tuch
Quinn Cozens Peterka
Greenway Colton Savoie
Trenin Krebs Armia
Girgensons
Byram Dahlin
Power Kovacevic
Sammy Joker
Clifton
UPL (50 starts)
Levi (25 starts in BUF 25 starts in ROC)
Vet goalie (7 starts)
Beerz
Registered User
- Jun 28, 2011
- 35,415
- 11,020
Why trade Kulich for Colton when he could be had for much less (if available)
That doesn't make sense.
'kay
What?? Colton was traded for 37th OA in the last draft. Kulich is worth way, way more than that. That's not a good deal.
'kay
Montreal was trying to find a taker for Armia's deal and couldn't even get a sniff waiving him earlier this year and now he's worth a solid forward prospect? Nah. I like Kovacevic but that's another one where the value seems way, way off.
Eh.
HOOats
NO DOOM NO GLOOM
Jack Quinn says hold my XL frosty country club beer.
Seriously though, I think the team needs to revamp its strength & conditioning program. It became kind of a pet peeve of mine this year between the slow start, the injuries, and the sluggish/weak play of some of our more dynamic young athletes. I don't have much confidence in how they're handling the physical development of our guys.
The rugby Brit in charge of it all has been here almost a decade. Maybe the new coach will have his own ideas and a change will be forthcoming. I'd welcome a new S&C regime to help usher in this era of our boys becoming men (unintentional R&B references there).
Colton is signed for 3 seasons at a very reasonable price. His trade value is much much higher than 37 overall. Significantly higher. And I do think we need to overpay to acquire a 3C at $4.5 or less that's signed for a few years.
Yeah I'm pretty off on the Armia/Kovacevic value. But I'm not as high on Rosen as the rest of the board...Armia is at 17 goals and plays outstanding defence and really turned it around after the AHL demotion and mental re-conditioning or whatever he did (plus he's great on the power play)...I like Kovacevic a lot also lol. I think those are two great fits for our team.
I think the inevitable next move is choosing between Byram or Power but that choice won't be made this off season.
Three new forwards, one new defenseman, backup veteran goalie. That's what I see happening this offseason.
I dont think we trade our 1st this year. Our issue is current young forward glut. Savoie/Kulich/Rosen at the same time is the issue. We will want blue chips around who will be ready in a few years.
Yeah I'm pretty off on the Armia/Kovacevic value. But I'm not as high on Rosen as the rest of the board...Armia is at 17 goals and plays outstanding defence and really turned it around after the AHL demotion and mental re-conditioning or whatever he did (plus he's great on the power play)...I like Kovacevic a lot also lol. I think those are two great fits for our team.
I think the inevitable next move is choosing between Byram or Power but that choice won't be made this off season.
Three new forwards, one new defenseman, backup veteran goalie. That's what I see happening this offseason.
I dont think we trade our 1st this year. Our issue is current young forward glut. Savoie/Kulich/Rosen at the same time is the issue. We will want blue chips around who will be ready in a few years.
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Fjordy
Registered User
- Jun 20, 2018
- 15,329
- 8,248
Why would they choose between Power and Byram? They both can play in the top 4.
Money. If Sammy at 4.2 is in our long term plans (I think he is)...Clifton at 3.33...Joker or his replacement at a minimum of 3.5...theres only so much money you can spend on defense.
If Byram with not a lot of PP time is in the 35-40 point range, he will be in the 6+ range. I dont know how we afford that long term.
Let's say we did manage to make the playoffs this season. Granato keeps his job then...
Our current core went as far as they could/couldn't go with Granato. They can go farther with the next guy.
I'm OK with bringing Joker back. He was, all-in-all, consistently good this year. He is fine as a 2nd/3rd pair RHD tweener. Not having a healthy Sammy all year was calamitous. Erik Johnson was a disastrous signing, RyJo should do a full year in Rochester, and Clifton/Bryson were garbage the first half of the season. Power doesn't look like an 8 million dollar a year player...theres that too.
But the D will be a strength next year, however they choose to flesh it out. You've got 5 spots secured and 2 to figure out. Bryson isn't a horrible 7th guy...don't think we need to put RyJo there would rather he do 20 minutes in Rochester. I'm still on the DeMelo train and have been for a while but will he be worth the extra million or so he will ask for to play in Buffalo.
So we missed the playoffs. Another lottery pick. The new coach will want to win now. And Adams needs to make the playoffs to keep his job. Let's overpay to add the right forward. I've spent an insane amount of hours staring at rosters. It won't be easy to add the right guy because what team would want to trade the right guy lol. I'm open to suggestions but haven't seen a lot of candidates that make sense. We aren't getting Brady Tkachuk for example...
Our current core went as far as they could/couldn't go with Granato. They can go farther with the next guy.
I'm OK with bringing Joker back. He was, all-in-all, consistently good this year. He is fine as a 2nd/3rd pair RHD tweener. Not having a healthy Sammy all year was calamitous. Erik Johnson was a disastrous signing, RyJo should do a full year in Rochester, and Clifton/Bryson were garbage the first half of the season. Power doesn't look like an 8 million dollar a year player...theres that too.
But the D will be a strength next year, however they choose to flesh it out. You've got 5 spots secured and 2 to figure out. Bryson isn't a horrible 7th guy...don't think we need to put RyJo there would rather he do 20 minutes in Rochester. I'm still on the DeMelo train and have been for a while but will he be worth the extra million or so he will ask for to play in Buffalo.
So we missed the playoffs. Another lottery pick. The new coach will want to win now. And Adams needs to make the playoffs to keep his job. Let's overpay to add the right forward. I've spent an insane amount of hours staring at rosters. It won't be easy to add the right guy because what team would want to trade the right guy lol. I'm open to suggestions but haven't seen a lot of candidates that make sense. We aren't getting Brady Tkachuk for example...
Power shouldn’t have been given the contract he was given but to double down on that mistake and get rid of him because of a stupid financial decision at the time would be idiotic. Power, IMO, will eventually play up to and beyond that yearly average. Much like Dahlin, he has struggled early and shown flashes as well.
truthbluth
Registered User
- Feb 2, 2011
- 7,362
- 6,647
Let's imagine for 5 minutes that Brandon Beane was GM of the Sabres. With all these assets. What's he doing? Because continuing to have the conversation about the roster limited to what KA seems capable of is nauseating. Beane was here for 5 minutes when he traded our starting QB, our franchise LT and moved up in the draft to get his QB. What's the hockey equivalent?
For the first time since he was gifted the job, Kevin sounds like he has a pulse. Let's let our imaginations run wild with that, else our souls will slowly, meekly waste away into the ether.
For the first time since he was gifted the job, Kevin sounds like he has a pulse. Let's let our imaginations run wild with that, else our souls will slowly, meekly waste away into the ether.
Here are the questions.
1. Buyout Skinner now, or next offseason
2. Savoie or Kulich or Rosen on the roster
3. Who is the 3C
4. Is Krebs a legit roster option at 4C or is he just not a fit for the Sabres long term
5. Who is the grinder winger that we add
6. Who is the PK winger that we add
7. Bring back Zem at $2 or go cheaper
8. Keep Kulich/Rosen in Rochester another year or trade now
My answers...
1. I think the new coach will want Skinner off the roster.
2. Savoie is most NHL ready...Rosen too slight, Kulich can cook more as a C in Rochester
3. I have no idea. All the sensible options will require overpay
4. I dont know. I say bring back Krebs as 4C with two better wingers and see how it goes
5. Trenin would be wonderful
6. There are many options. Just get a good PK guy please. Rousek ain't it.
7. Bring back Zem
8. Kulich and Rosen are on the table for 3C
1. Buyout Skinner now, or next offseason
2. Savoie or Kulich or Rosen on the roster
3. Who is the 3C
4. Is Krebs a legit roster option at 4C or is he just not a fit for the Sabres long term
5. Who is the grinder winger that we add
6. Who is the PK winger that we add
7. Bring back Zem at $2 or go cheaper
8. Keep Kulich/Rosen in Rochester another year or trade now
My answers...
1. I think the new coach will want Skinner off the roster.
2. Savoie is most NHL ready...Rosen too slight, Kulich can cook more as a C in Rochester
3. I have no idea. All the sensible options will require overpay
4. I dont know. I say bring back Krebs as 4C with two better wingers and see how it goes
5. Trenin would be wonderful
6. There are many options. Just get a good PK guy please. Rousek ain't it.
7. Bring back Zem
8. Kulich and Rosen are on the table for 3C
Fjordy
Registered User
- Jun 20, 2018
- 15,329
- 8,248
Well, Clifton and Joker haven't seen each other long-term yet, Sammy is often injured. So far, I don’t know if Adams is going to change anything on defense.
Gabrielor
"Win with us or watch us win." - Rasmus Dahlin
1. Summer of 2025 (next offseason)
2. Kulich I'll say for now
3. A trade acquisition
4. He's going to have a fire lit under him, and we'll see. He's about to sign a Tage-bridge I'd bet (2-3years, 1.5m-ish per)
5. We might add 2. No guess yet.
6. See 5.
7. IF he's back, cheaper please
8. Rochester will still have some guys. Savoie,Ostlund,Rosen,Wahlberg,Neuchev, to name the big ones; If any are traded, it better be for a legit top 6 forward now, or a legit high quality defensive center now (Cirelli).
- Aug 19, 2005
- 16,137
- 4,686
Reinhart finishing out the season with 57 goals. LOL. I f***ing hate Jason Botterill.
HOOats
NO DOOM NO GLOOM
Why would his trade value be significantly higher than exactly what he was traded for 10 months ago? He had a fine season but... I'll second Chain that Kulich is a significant overpay for him.
Riffing off your other posts, Rosen would be a better fit to deal if Colorado is looking to shed salary. Kulich still has a good look at being the type of star that we can never acquire when fully formed - don't move him.
I agree with you here. This year's first shouldn't be moved except in an obvious trade win. Our future salary structure is going to need quality ELCs inserted in 2-4 years. Trade from the current young forward glut.
Just Looking at the forward group:
Peterka-Thompson-Tuch
Greenway-Cozens-Benson
Skinner-Krebs-Quinn
XXXX-XXXXX-XXXXX
The Skill is there. But, Nearly everyone but Peterka took a step back this year. I think the real question is what is the makeup of the lines going forward.
Typically you have:
Top line - Depends on the makeup of the line, but given lack of two way acumen, probably 65% o-zone starts
Two way line, takes more defensive zone starts (typically looks like 52-55% d-zone starts)
Secondary offensive line (60%+ o-zone starts)
Fourth line is typically very high defensive deployments, 60-70% d-zone starts)
First off, I think, just in terms of planning, we can set Krebs down for the 13th forward/depth piece for now. He doesn't provide enough offense to play on a two way or offense first line, and his defensive impacts are good not great.
The second is: Is Cozens a two way center or a one way center. Last year, he was deployed in an even split (50/50 at ES) and played some PK time. He basically split the even deployment role with Mittelstadt. With that being said, he's been put with some bad defensive forwards. Peterka and Quinn are both not great defensively. He played with Benson a bit as well, who is more adept, but by no means a selke candidate.
The other big thing is, what do we do with Skinner. Given how he ended the year, IF he's still here to start the year, he's likely on the Secondary offensive line that won't see the d-zone much.
If you want to effect change right now, without trading anyone or buying someone out
There are pretty limited options:
- Move Greenway into 4LW spot, plug a more offensive adept 2 way winger in that spot.
- Get a better defensively 2 way C and let Cozens focus more on offense, similar to his role last year
- Find a veteran C who isn't great defensively and pay them in the short term
To really affect change you have to look into trades. The 4th line is obviously open, but other than putting Greenway in the Girgensons role, I don't see anyone on the roster or in Rochester who can thrive in a 4th line role. On the current team, Benson could probably do OK in the high d-zone start 4RW slot, but I think that is a bit of a waste.
Peterka-Thompson-Tuch
Greenway-Cozens-Benson
Skinner-Krebs-Quinn
XXXX-XXXXX-XXXXX
The Skill is there. But, Nearly everyone but Peterka took a step back this year. I think the real question is what is the makeup of the lines going forward.
Typically you have:
Top line - Depends on the makeup of the line, but given lack of two way acumen, probably 65% o-zone starts
Two way line, takes more defensive zone starts (typically looks like 52-55% d-zone starts)
Secondary offensive line (60%+ o-zone starts)
Fourth line is typically very high defensive deployments, 60-70% d-zone starts)
First off, I think, just in terms of planning, we can set Krebs down for the 13th forward/depth piece for now. He doesn't provide enough offense to play on a two way or offense first line, and his defensive impacts are good not great.
The second is: Is Cozens a two way center or a one way center. Last year, he was deployed in an even split (50/50 at ES) and played some PK time. He basically split the even deployment role with Mittelstadt. With that being said, he's been put with some bad defensive forwards. Peterka and Quinn are both not great defensively. He played with Benson a bit as well, who is more adept, but by no means a selke candidate.
The other big thing is, what do we do with Skinner. Given how he ended the year, IF he's still here to start the year, he's likely on the Secondary offensive line that won't see the d-zone much.
If you want to effect change right now, without trading anyone or buying someone out
There are pretty limited options:
- Move Greenway into 4LW spot, plug a more offensive adept 2 way winger in that spot.
- Get a better defensively 2 way C and let Cozens focus more on offense, similar to his role last year
- Find a veteran C who isn't great defensively and pay them in the short term
To really affect change you have to look into trades. The 4th line is obviously open, but other than putting Greenway in the Girgensons role, I don't see anyone on the roster or in Rochester who can thrive in a 4th line role. On the current team, Benson could probably do OK in the high d-zone start 4RW slot, but I think that is a bit of a waste.
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Jim Bob
RIP RJ
There should be no trade asset that is off the table to acquire the right guys via trade.
Sure, it would be great if they can use the surplus of the young forwards they already have in the system to do that. But, other GMs might want a pick more than a guy that the Sabres have drafted.
And the key needs to be landing guys that move the needle and not hearing more of the "we looked at adding a guy, but we didn't like the acquisition cost."
Standing pat cannot be an option this summer.
GrierIsGod123
Registered User
Here are the questions.
1. Buyout Skinner now, or next offseason - NOW! He cannot hold a roster spot hostage any longer
2. Savoie or Kulich or Rosen on the roster - I'd lean towards Savoie also. Kulich is close too and likely spends some fairly significant time with Buffalo. I agree that he can keep cooking as a C.
3. Who is the 3C - Dream scenario is Cirelli, who would lighten the load on Tage/Cozens and free them up. I also like the Colton idea but am not giving up a top prospect for him. They need to weaponize their cap space with a team up against it (i.e. Vegas). I like the idea of Chandler Stephenson as well.
4. Is Krebs a legit roster option at 4C or is he just not a fit for the Sabres long term - No, I'd keep him around as the extra forward for now, unless he can be used as a trade chip for a real 3C. His end of season try-out went about as poorly as it could.
5. Who is the grinder winger that we add - Marcus Foligno ?
6. Who is the PK winger that we add - While it's never bad to add another, Jordan Greenway is already an elite PK winger for the top unit. Cozens also did quite well as the center. In my eyes, I'd be very comfortable with shifting Greenway to L4 and top PK.
7. Bring back Zem at $2 or go cheaper - I'm ready to be done I think. I love Zemgus and he's a very good 4th liner but think we just need some new blood. I wouldn't be upset if he stayed however.
8. Keep Kulich/Rosen in Rochester another year or trade now - It feels like they should start the year in Rochester, barring an outstanding training camp from either. Kulich should be the first call-up though, he's going to be itching for some NHL time.
1. Buyout Skinner now, or next offseason - NOW! He cannot hold a roster spot hostage any longer
2. Savoie or Kulich or Rosen on the roster - I'd lean towards Savoie also. Kulich is close too and likely spends some fairly significant time with Buffalo. I agree that he can keep cooking as a C.
3. Who is the 3C - Dream scenario is Cirelli, who would lighten the load on Tage/Cozens and free them up. I also like the Colton idea but am not giving up a top prospect for him. They need to weaponize their cap space with a team up against it (i.e. Vegas). I like the idea of Chandler Stephenson as well.
4. Is Krebs a legit roster option at 4C or is he just not a fit for the Sabres long term - No, I'd keep him around as the extra forward for now, unless he can be used as a trade chip for a real 3C. His end of season try-out went about as poorly as it could.
5. Who is the grinder winger that we add - Marcus Foligno ?
6. Who is the PK winger that we add - While it's never bad to add another, Jordan Greenway is already an elite PK winger for the top unit. Cozens also did quite well as the center. In my eyes, I'd be very comfortable with shifting Greenway to L4 and top PK.
7. Bring back Zem at $2 or go cheaper - I'm ready to be done I think. I love Zemgus and he's a very good 4th liner but think we just need some new blood. I wouldn't be upset if he stayed however.
8. Keep Kulich/Rosen in Rochester another year or trade now - It feels like they should start the year in Rochester, barring an outstanding training camp from either. Kulich should be the first call-up though, he's going to be itching for some NHL time.
- Feb 3, 2015
- 4,270
- 3,890
Adams was the GM who signed Reinhart to a 1 year deal in 2020, not Botterill. Reinhart still wanted a long term deal with the Sabres in 2020.
The 2020-21 season then played out the way it did and Reinhart no longer wanted to be a Sabre.
Botterill and Adams both made the same mistake with Reinhart, but Adams was the last one to do it. So it's on Adams more than Botts.
My Cozen Dylan
Registered User
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