The ROC

[Panteras]

Just read this article about olympians speaking their mind about the Russian athletes.

Russians face backlash from Olympic rivals

I mean, I gotta say, just not putting up your flag or playing your anthem as punishment for a state sponsored doping program is not even a slap on the wrist lol other olympians seem to think so as well.

discuss

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[Eisen]

So I haven't really followed this since Seppelt uncovered it, but weren't the athletes that now compete supposed to be independently tested and that's why it was supposed to be ok for them to participate?

 

[Albatros]

If they're tested according to the same principles as everyone else I don't know what the problem should be.

 

[Bakayoko Ono]

Murphy comes off as a sore loser.

 

[BMann]

These athletes have been tested over and over again from overseas laboratories. Why should they not be allowed to compete ? Some of them train exclusively overseas anyway. Putin and his cronies are the ones that need sanctioning. Instead of investing long term at the grass roots he decided it would be a PR coup to go in for systemic doping to boost results after years of under investment and decaying facilities, a coach exodus abroad instead of returning to the original model of success. Talent identification, expert coaching and the utmost effort on the part of those involved as the chosen athletes.

Those who are whining most are probably the ones who missed out on a medal. What they should do is go back and remove the results and records from the GDR, and other individuals like Kratochvilova and Florence Joyner. And there are plenty of others who have question marks over them as well.

 

[Evilo]

Yes, history is marred with doubtful performances, and many from outside Russia.
Florence Joyner is a laughable example. She suddenly became twice as fast as before and died extremely young of unknown reasons.

 

[Havre]

This one is tricky. Personally I think Russia was let off the hook far too easily, but I find it borderline hilarious when American athletes are complaining. What was one of the requirements for NHL players to be allowed to participate in the Olympics? That they couldn't be tested for PEDs? Oregon project, all the 100m runners one after one being caught etc. Obviously not limited to the US. Finland and Austria have been caught in cross country skiing where basically everyone where on EPO. Several countries in Africa basically had zero testing of their runners etc.

So it is quite obvious to me this is more politics than sports. They are trying to find some sort of way to deal with this not to sound too hypocritical while at the same time giving in this case Russia some sort of punishment.

At this point you can only pray that those athletes that are using something won't go full Lance Armstrong on us. That the benefit they get is marginal as they are not able to do it so easily that they get the full effect from things like EPO.

 

[Jussi]

Yes, history is marred with doubtful performances, and many from outside Russia.
Florence Joyner is a laughable example. She suddenly became twice as fast as before and died extremely young of unknown reasons.

I think when it comes to her world record, it's not the possible use of PED but the wind conditions at the venue that was/is the biggest questionmark. In her heat the wind measurement was 0 meters per second. All the other heats had around 5 m/s. The video of the run clearly shows a flag behind the track blustering during it. The wind measurement equipment malfunctions now and then but they should've included that with the result.

 

[Maple Leaf]

If they're tested according to the same principles as everyone else I don't know what the problem should be.

Everyone knows Russia is cheating

 

[Eisen]

These athletes have been tested over and over again from overseas laboratories. Why should they not be allowed to compete ? Some of them train exclusively overseas anyway. Putin and his cronies are the ones that need sanctioning. Instead of investing long term at the grass roots he decided it would be a PR coup to go in for systemic doping to boost results after years of under investment and decaying facilities, a coach exodus abroad instead of returning to the original model of success. Talent identification, expert coaching and the utmost effort on the part of those involved as the chosen athletes.

Those who are whining most are probably the ones who missed out on a medal. What they should do is go back and remove the results and records from the GDR, and other individuals like Kratochvilova and Florence Joyner. And there are plenty of others who have question marks over them as well.

I think Kratochvilova's 800m record still stands today.

 

[Eisen]

Yes, history is marred with doubtful performances, and many from outside Russia.
Florence Joyner is a laughable example. She suddenly became twice as fast as before and died extremely young of unknown reasons.

Yeah, her Seoul performance was one of the most obvious doping cases I have seen.

 

[Albatros]

Everyone knows Russia is cheating

Russian athletes among most tested going into Tokyo Games

 

[Evilo]

And as we all know, and for everyone, testing isn't the ultimate proof.
Armstrong was tested so many times and everyone except the blind homer knew he was doped.

 

[Eisen]

And as we all know, and for everyone, testing isn't the ultimate proof.
Armstrong was tested so many times and everyone except the blind homer knew he was doped.

All cyclists at that time, really. EPO is hard to detect if done right.

 

[Evilo]

Most cyclists at least.
But yes, dopers will always be in front of testing science.

 

[BMann]

I think Kratochvilova's 800m record still stands today.

It does. Her change in appearance as with some unfortunate female GDR athletes who had no idea they were being doped by their coaches gives a pretty big clue. Even the best athletes struggle to get anywhere near these times. Flo Jo's early death is undoubtedly down to drug abuse.

 

[BMann]

Everyone knows Russia is cheating

Is this supposed to be an ironic comment or pure sarcasm or an actual belief that despite the ROC athletes present in Tokyo being the most tested of all that somehow they are on miracle drugs ? Id it the latter then keep to your own stereotyped bias without any factual credence.

Plenty of nations have their own cheats if not on a systemically attempted basis. In recent memory we have Turkey, Spain whose athletes results have gone south since bloodgate, Kenya, Jamaica and of course the USA as well. Even here in the UK we have doubts over the likes of Ohuroogu for instance.

 

[Bure80]

Those who are whining most are probably the ones who missed out on a medal. What they should do is go back and remove the results and records from the GDR, and other individuals like Kratochvilova and Florence Joyner. And there are plenty of others who have question marks over them as well.

Yes Doping was a big issue in the GDR. Nevertheless we had maybe the worlds best screening of young talent. That was a big part of success.
If Germany has a similar system we wouldnt be only 9th in medal ranking. Many had success 92/96 without Doping. Even later, athletes of the sport system were successful for example van Almsick.

 

[Albatros]

Or Jan Ullrich and Claudia Pechstein.

 

[BMann]

Yes Doping was a big issue in the GDR. Nevertheless we had maybe the worlds best screening of young talent. That was a big part of success.
If Germany has a similar system we wouldnt be only 9th in medal ranking. Many had success 92/96 without Doping. Even later, athletes of the sport system were successful for example van Almsick.

True enough. The former systems employed in the likes of the GDR did select well and the coaches were pretty decent. Most of the athletes were unaware they had been doped by their coaches. I must admit growing up I rather enjoyed Hanns Eisler's anthem. Still gives me a warm feeling. Uwe Hohn holder of the immortal javelin record and who missed out through injury and boycott on Olympic gold coached Neeraj Chopra to a gold medal.

We measure our lives those of us with a keen interest in sport by Olympics both summer and winter and World Cups. It's a bit sad when the flame is extinguished, the flag handed over and the Olympic anthem sung to close proceedings. When you are young you cannot wait to see the next Games. As you get older and I expect this is true for the really old you start wondering if you will see the next Games.

 

[Evilo]

Or Jan Ullrich and Claudia Pechstein.

Ullrich wasn't doped?
Is it sarcasm?

 

[Rabid Ranger]

Did the IOC really accomplish all that much here? The only real downside for Russia is they couldn't be called "Russia" and their actual national anthem wasn't played. Aside from that it was business as usual. The penalties imposed was kind of a farce IMO.

 

[Eisen]

True enough. The former systems employed in the likes of the GDR did select well and the coaches were pretty decent. Most of the athletes were unaware they had been doped by their coaches. I must admit growing up I rather enjoyed Hanns Eisler's anthem. Still gives me a warm feeling. Uwe Hohn holder of the immortal javelin record and who missed out through injury and boycott on Olympic gold coached Neeraj Chopra to a gold medal.

We measure our lives those of us with a keen interest in sport by Olympics both summer and winter and World Cups. It's a bit sad when the flame is extinguished, the flag handed over and the Olympic anthem sung to close proceedings. When you are young you cannot wait to see the next Games. As you get older and I expect this is true for the really old you start wondering if you will see the next Games.

I'm from the West and born in the early 70s, so I remember the Cold War and I always liked the anthem as well.

 

[Havre]

Did the IOC really accomplish all that much here? The only real downside for Russia is they couldn't be called "Russia" and their actual national anthem wasn't played. Aside from that it was business as usual. The penalties imposed was kind of a farce IMO.

They know if they actually tried to do this properly, they quickly run into having to take some bold decisions - which they are not prepared to do. Why did Sifan Hassan move to and stay with Salazar?

Everyone knows this is not limited to Russia. Just that Russia gave them no choice but to do something - so here we are.

And it is hardly going to change when athletes aren't taking a stand either. Like Sifan (not that I really like to single her out, but obviously she is the biggest star at the moment). Not suggesting she is on PEDs either (or have been), but of all the coaches in the world I don't get why she had to pick Salazar.

 

[Eisen]

They know if they actually tried to do this properly, they quickly run into having to take some bold decisions - which they are not prepared to do. Why did Sifan Hassan move to and stay with Salazar?

Everyone knows this is not limited to Russia. Just that Russia gave them no choice but to do something - so here we are.

And it is hardly going to change when athletes aren't taking a stand either. Like Sifan (not that I really like to single her out, but obviously she is the biggest star at the moment). Not suggesting she is on PEDs either (or have been), but of all the coaches in the world I don't get why she had to pick Salazar.

The German Klosterhalfen is part of that training team as well. Apparently, the training conditions there are a dream come true. But everytime she races, the Oregon project and Salazar are mentioned so it leaves a bad taste in the mouth for the viewers. And a lot of suspicion from the doping controllers as well, I assume.