The Richard brothers...

Discussion in 'The History of Hockey' started by Hunter Gathers, Mar 29, 2006.

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  1. Hunter Gathers

    Hunter Gathers ordinary corrupt human love

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    ...who was better?

    Should be an interesting topic.
     
  2. Weztex

    Weztex Registered User

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    Definitely not Claude.
     
  3. arrbez

    arrbez bad chi

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    Am I missing something?

    How is this even close?

    A nearly concensus top-5 forward ever vs. a very good player who was in the right place at the right time
     
  4. frontsfan2005

    frontsfan2005 Registered User

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    Rocket by a mile.
     
  5. Frightened Inmate #2

    Frightened Inmate #2 Registered User

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    As a complete hockey player, even the rocket has said that Henri was the better player. That being said from the blueline in there was no equal to the rocket (an arguement could be made for Bossy and Lemieux however).
     
  6. mcphee

    mcphee Registered User

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    Ask Murray our resident Chicago fan whether Mikita or Hull was better. We'll hopefully be debating the Ovechkin/Crosby question when I'm a grand father. 2 different players, different styles, different contributions. I remember reading about Henri Richard in his first camp, no one really considered him as a legit. possibility that year. At some point, someone just realized, the kid's always got the puck. That's what I remember in the 60's. He didn't always get it to the net, but he always had the puck. Dave Keon was a great player, I've alwys thought he and Henri Richard were mirror images, though Keon didn't have Henri's family temper.
     
  7. Darz

    Darz Registered User

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    Ya, and I remember Mario Lemieux stating his brother Alain was a better hockey player than him, so.....
     
  8. Chili

    Chili Registered User

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    The Rocket is before my time but I have great memories of Pocket, especially in a couple of the Habs playoff runs of the late '60's and early '70's. He scored a number of big goals and was a great leader. One of the toughest players I ever saw as well, regardless of his size.
     
  9. God Bless Canada

    God Bless Canada Registered User

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    Henri was more than just a "very good player who was in the right place at the right time." Henri is likely one of the Top 20 forwards of all-time. If you're good enough to be part of the most Cup-winning teams in NHL history, that says a lot about how good you are. When you're a key player on every one of those teams, that says even more. There's nothing that's more important for the legacy for a player than being a key part of a dynasty, let alone 11 Cup-winning teams. Henri Richard was an absolutely wonderful player, an all-round force, a leader and holds likely the most coveted record in hockey that doesn't belong to Gretzky.

    Rocket's the better player, there's no doubt in my mind. The Rocket is likely the best clutch player in NHL history. He was also very strong and very tough, and had a definite mean streak. But Henri should not be under-rated.
     
  10. arrbez

    arrbez bad chi

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    If the Habs had won a mere 8 cups, or they had won it every year he played for them, Henri Richard would be no better or worse as a player. Whenever his name is brought up, it's directly followed by mentioning his record for most championships. It's great that he was an excellent contributor for so long, but he doesn't even approach Maurice in terms of greatness as a hockey player. Or Jean Beliveau, or Guy Lafleur, or Howie Morenz, or a whole lot of other great Hab players. He was just simply the luckiest of them all to be in the right situation at the right time. Think of it this way: If Henri Richard began his career in 1980 and retired in 2000 with two championships, would we be having this conversation? I don't think we would.
     
  11. God Bless Canada

    God Bless Canada Registered User

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    Nowhere did I say that Henri Richard is in the class of the Rocket, Beliveau or Morenz. Richard and Beliveau are top 5. Morenz and LaFleur are arguably top 10 and without a doubt in the top 15. Once you get past the top 15, there is a drop-off. But I'd put the Pocket Rocket in the top 20 for all-time forwards. Ahead of, say, Frank Mahovlich or even Dickie Moore. And I know I'm not the only one. (THN's Top 50 had the Pocket Rocket ahead of Trottier. It's not a ranking I necessarily agree with, but these are pretty knowledgeable people who think Henri Richard is one of the top 20 forwards ever).

    Reality is that Henri Richard won 11 Cups. All the "what ifs" in the world won't change that. Reality is that Henri Richard played a key role on all 11 of those Cup winning teams. He was a fantastic all-round player, as dangerous to the opposition without the puck as he was with the puck. A key component to 11 Stanley Cup teams. What a testament of greatness.
     
  12. Ogopogo*

    Ogopogo* Guest

    According to my ratings, the Rocket is the 9th greatest player in the history of the NHL, Henri is #73.
     
  13. mcphee

    mcphee Registered User

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    Yeah,but those 64 in between are pretty close.
     
  14. 73??? Those rankings you have there seem pretty inaccurate to me because Henri is definately better then that. Can you post the players you have ranked ahead of him?
     
  15. pappyline

    pappyline Registered User

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    As far as the Hull/Mikita comparson there is no question who was better--Hull! People went to the rink all around the NHL to watch Bobby not Stan. Bobby was the fastest & had the hardest shot plus the physical presence & the Movie star looks. You could legitmately argue that Bobby is the greatest ever.

    The RIchard brothers are an interesting comparison. I only saw the Rocket at the end of his career but do remember his overtime goal (predicted by Selke) i nthe ate 50's. Henri, I saw more of. remember him most from 1971, critizing the coach and then playing the game of his career to beat the Blackhawks in the 7th game (still have nightmares of HOFER Tony Esposito's Choke)Both were tough. The Rocket was more volatile. Rocket was the better goal scorer. Henri was the better playmaker. Rocket was probably the best clutch player of all time so I give the edge to the Rocket.
     
  16. Snap Wilson

    Snap Wilson Registered User

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    Ha ha ha.
     
  17. Evil Sather

    Evil Sather YOU KILL THE JOE

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    Henri Richard was great. But going by a numerical analysis, #73 isn't very far off. 3 PPG seasons, 1 30 goal year, never led his team in goals or points (at least I'm pretty sure on that one), 11 cups is awesome but that's gonna have an effect in a primarily statistical analysis. Hence why he's #73.
     
  18. mcphee

    mcphee Registered User

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    I could never argue that Henri was the better player, he wasn't. He was a great player though and brought different things to the table, and I won't get into g7 in 1971,oops I just did.
    There were many that would argue Mikita/Hull though, weren't there ? Hull had the flash but some liked Mikita better.

    Saturday games Mtl./Chicago were a treat in those days though. Mtl. did ok with Hull, if he got by Claude Provost, Terry Harper would be draped all over him. Kenny Wharram was the guy that killed Mtl., it seemed.
     
  19. Ogopogo*

    Ogopogo* Guest


    1 Wayne Gretzky
    2 Gordie Howe
    3 Bobby Orr
    4 Mario Lemieux
    5 Jean Beliveau
    6 Eddie Shore*
    7 Bobby Hull
    8 Ray Bourque
    9 Maurice "Rocket" Richard
    10 Phil Esposito
    11 Stan Mikita
    12 Guy Lafleur
    13 Doug Harvey
    14 Jaromir Jagr
    15 Howie Morenz*
    16 Leonard "Red" Kelly*
    17 Francis "King" Clancy*
    18 Bill Cowley
    19 Paul Coffey
    20 Ted Kennedy
    21 Bryan Trottier
    22 Earl Seibert*
    23 Andy Bathgate
    24 Syl Apps, Sr.
    25 Cecil " Babe" Dye*
    26 Bobby Clarke
    27 Elmer Lach
    28 Cy Denneny*
    29 Marcel Dionne
    30 Milt Schmidt
    31 Mike Bossy
    32 Nels Stewart*
    33 Denis Potvin
    34 Mark Messier
    35 Larry Robinson
    36 Lionel Conacher*
    37 Joe Sakic
    38 Pierre Pilote
    39 Frank Boucher*
    40 Charlie Conacher
    41 Nicklas Lidstrom
    42 Max Bentley
    43 Steve Yzerman
    44 Brad Park
    45 Harry Cameron*
    46 Bernie Geoffrion
    47 Doug Bentley
    48 Al MacInnis
    49 Ted Lindsay
    50 Brett Hull
    51 Aurel Joliat*
    52 Bill Cook*
    53 Rod Langway
    54 Edouard "Newsy" Lalonde*
    Aubrey "Dit" Clapper*
    56 Scott Stevens
    57 Chris Chelios
    58 Sprague Cleghorn*
    59 Ebbie Goodfellow*
    60 Teemu Selanne
    61 Sid Abel
    62 Jack Stewart*
    63 Bill Gadsby
    64 Hector "Toe" Blake
    65 Brian Leetch
    66 Frank Nighbor*
    67 Borje Salming
    68 Marty Barry
    69 Gord Drillon
    70 Adam Oates
    71 Harry "Punch" Broadbent*
    72 Frank Mahovlich
    73 Henri Richard
     
  20. Psycho Papa Joe

    Psycho Papa Joe Porkchop Hoser

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    Your ratings are therefore flawed.
     
  21. Ogopogo*

    Ogopogo* Guest

    LOL. What do your ratings tell us?
     
  22. pappyline

    pappyline Registered User

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    There may be a few people who think that Mikita was better than Hull but I have yet to meet one. By the way, next to Henri & Dryden the most dominant plater in the 71 playoffs was Hull.
     
  23. V-2 Schneider

    V-2 Schneider Registered User

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    Richard wasn't even Montreal's best forward in the 1971 playoffs.He had a great game 7,but Beliveau,Frank Mahovolich and Lemaire, were all much better that entire playoff run.
     
  24. pappyline

    pappyline Registered User

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    Next to Dryden, He was their best player in game 7. Believe me I know as I watched that game intently. Still have nightmares of Lemaires fluke goal from center ice aganist Tony HOFER.,
     
  25. V-2 Schneider

    V-2 Schneider Registered User

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    I watched that game, too.I also watched each game that entire playoff run.Richard played well, but he had a career night on Game 7.He was not Montreal's best forward during the playoffs.No question Hull played like a star,but the three i previously mentioned, made the difference in the Boston,Minnesota and Chicago series.

    Look closer at the video, and Lemaire scored from just outside the blueline.His shot was as heavy as both Hull's, so it shouldn't be seen as a fluke.He has said that Tony O didn't see longshots well,so it wasn't like MacInnis bouncing on in on Potvin from center ice.
     

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