The Richard brothers...

[Hunter Gathers]

...who was better?

Should be an interesting topic.

Click to read more...

 

[Weztex]

Definitely not Claude.

 

[arrbez]

...who was better?

Should be an interesting topic.

Am I missing something?

How is this even close?

A nearly concensus top-5 forward ever vs. a very good player who was in the right place at the right time

 

[frontsfan2005]

Rocket by a mile.

 

[Frightened Inmate #2]

As a complete hockey player, even the rocket has said that Henri was the better player. That being said from the blueline in there was no equal to the rocket (an arguement could be made for Bossy and Lemieux however).

 

[mcphee]

Ask Murray our resident Chicago fan whether Mikita or Hull was better. We'll hopefully be debating the Ovechkin/Crosby question when I'm a grand father. 2 different players, different styles, different contributions. I remember reading about Henri Richard in his first camp, no one really considered him as a legit. possibility that year. At some point, someone just realized, the kid's always got the puck. That's what I remember in the 60's. He didn't always get it to the net, but he always had the puck. Dave Keon was a great player, I've alwys thought he and Henri Richard were mirror images, though Keon didn't have Henri's family temper.

 

[Darz]

As a complete hockey player, even the rocket has said that Henri was the better player.

Ya, and I remember Mario Lemieux stating his brother Alain was a better hockey player than him, so.....

 

[Chili]

The Rocket is before my time but I have great memories of Pocket, especially in a couple of the Habs playoff runs of the late '60's and early '70's. He scored a number of big goals and was a great leader. One of the toughest players I ever saw as well, regardless of his size.

 

[God Bless Canada]

Am I missing something?

How is this even close?

A nearly concensus top-5 forward ever vs. a very good player who was in the right place at the right time

Henri was more than just a "very good player who was in the right place at the right time." Henri is likely one of the Top 20 forwards of all-time. If you're good enough to be part of the most Cup-winning teams in NHL history, that says a lot about how good you are. When you're a key player on every one of those teams, that says even more. There's nothing that's more important for the legacy for a player than being a key part of a dynasty, let alone 11 Cup-winning teams. Henri Richard was an absolutely wonderful player, an all-round force, a leader and holds likely the most coveted record in hockey that doesn't belong to Gretzky.

Rocket's the better player, there's no doubt in my mind. The Rocket is likely the best clutch player in NHL history. He was also very strong and very tough, and had a definite mean streak. But Henri should not be under-rated.

 

[arrbez]

Henri was more than just a "very good player who was in the right place at the right time." Henri is likely one of the Top 20 forwards of all-time. If you're good enough to be part of the most Cup-winning teams in NHL history, that says a lot about how good you are. When you're a key player on every one of those teams, that says even more. There's nothing that's more important for the legacy for a player than being a key part of a dynasty, let alone 11 Cup-winning teams. Henri Richard was an absolutely wonderful player, an all-round force, a leader and holds likely the most coveted record in hockey that doesn't belong to Gretzky.

Rocket's the better player, there's no doubt in my mind. The Rocket is likely the best clutch player in NHL history. He was also very strong and very tough, and had a definite mean streak. But Henri should not be under-rated.

If the Habs had won a mere 8 cups, or they had won it every year he played for them, Henri Richard would be no better or worse as a player. Whenever his name is brought up, it's directly followed by mentioning his record for most championships. It's great that he was an excellent contributor for so long, but he doesn't even approach Maurice in terms of greatness as a hockey player. Or Jean Beliveau, or Guy Lafleur, or Howie Morenz, or a whole lot of other great Hab players. He was just simply the luckiest of them all to be in the right situation at the right time. Think of it this way: If Henri Richard began his career in 1980 and retired in 2000 with two championships, would we be having this conversation? I don't think we would.

 

[God Bless Canada]

If the Habs had won a mere 8 cups, or they had won it every year he played for them, Henri Richard would be no better or worse as a player. Whenever his name is brought up, it's directly followed by mentioning his record for most championships. It's great that he was an excellent contributor for so long, but he doesn't even approach Maurice in terms of greatness as a hockey player. Or Jean Beliveau, or Guy Lafleur, or Howie Morenz, or a whole lot of other great Hab players. He was just simply the luckiest of them all to be in the right situation at the right time. Think of it this way: If Henri Richard began his career in 1980 and retired in 2000 with two championships, would we be having this conversation? I don't think we would.

Nowhere did I say that Henri Richard is in the class of the Rocket, Beliveau or Morenz. Richard and Beliveau are top 5. Morenz and LaFleur are arguably top 10 and without a doubt in the top 15. Once you get past the top 15, there is a drop-off. But I'd put the Pocket Rocket in the top 20 for all-time forwards. Ahead of, say, Frank Mahovlich or even Dickie Moore. And I know I'm not the only one. (THN's Top 50 had the Pocket Rocket ahead of Trottier. It's not a ranking I necessarily agree with, but these are pretty knowledgeable people who think Henri Richard is one of the top 20 forwards ever).

Reality is that Henri Richard won 11 Cups. All the "what ifs" in the world won't change that. Reality is that Henri Richard played a key role on all 11 of those Cup winning teams. He was a fantastic all-round player, as dangerous to the opposition without the puck as he was with the puck. A key component to 11 Stanley Cup teams. What a testament of greatness.

 

[Ogopogo*]

According to my ratings, the Rocket is the 9th greatest player in the history of the NHL, Henri is #73.

 

[mcphee]

According to my ratings, the Rocket is the 9th greatest player in the history of the NHL, Henri is #73.

Yeah,but those 64 in between are pretty close.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain*]

According to my ratings, the Rocket is the 9th greatest player in the history of the NHL, Henri is #73.

73??? Those rankings you have there seem pretty inaccurate to me because Henri is definately better then that. Can you post the players you have ranked ahead of him?

 

[pappyline]

Ask Murray our resident Chicago fan whether Mikita or Hull was better. We'll hopefully be debating the Ovechkin/Crosby question when I'm a grand father. 2 different players, different styles, different contributions. I remember reading about Henri Richard in his first camp, no one really considered him as a legit. possibility that year. At some point, someone just realized, the kid's always got the puck. That's what I remember in the 60's. He didn't always get it to the net, but he always had the puck. Dave Keon was a great player, I've alwys thought he and Henri Richard were mirror images, though Keon didn't have Henri's family temper.

As far as the Hull/Mikita comparson there is no question who was better--Hull! People went to the rink all around the NHL to watch Bobby not Stan. Bobby was the fastest & had the hardest shot plus the physical presence & the Movie star looks. You could legitmately argue that Bobby is the greatest ever.

The RIchard brothers are an interesting comparison. I only saw the Rocket at the end of his career but do remember his overtime goal (predicted by Selke) i nthe ate 50's. Henri, I saw more of. remember him most from 1971, critizing the coach and then playing the game of his career to beat the Blackhawks in the 7th game (still have nightmares of HOFER Tony Esposito's Choke)Both were tough. The Rocket was more volatile. Rocket was the better goal scorer. Henri was the better playmaker. Rocket was probably the best clutch player of all time so I give the edge to the Rocket.

 

[Snap Wilson]

Yeah,but those 64 in between are pretty close.

Ha ha ha.

 

[Evil Sather]

73??? Those rankings you have there seem pretty inaccurate to me because Henri is definately better then that. Can you post the players you have ranked ahead of him?

Henri Richard was great. But going by a numerical analysis, #73 isn't very far off. 3 PPG seasons, 1 30 goal year, never led his team in goals or points (at least I'm pretty sure on that one), 11 cups is awesome but that's gonna have an effect in a primarily statistical analysis. Hence why he's #73.

 

[mcphee]

As far as the Hull/Mikita comparson there is no question who was better--Hull! People went to the rink all around the NHL to watch Bobby not Stan. Bobby was the fastest & had the hardest shot plus the physical presence & the Movie star looks. You could legitmately argue that Bobby is the greatest ever.

The RIchard brothers are an interesting comparison. I only saw the Rocket at the end of his career but do remember his overtime goal (predicted by Selke) i nthe ate 50's. Henri, I saw more of. remember him most from 1971, critizing the coach and then playing the game of his career to beat the Blackhawks in the 7th game (still have nightmares of HOFER Tony Esposito's Choke)Both were tough. The Rocket was more volatile. Rocket was the better goal scorer. Henri was the better playmaker. Rocket was probably the best clutch player of all time so I give the edge to the Rocket.

I could never argue that Henri was the better player, he wasn't. He was a great player though and brought different things to the table, and I won't get into g7 in 1971,oops I just did.
There were many that would argue Mikita/Hull though, weren't there ? Hull had the flash but some liked Mikita better.

Saturday games Mtl./Chicago were a treat in those days though. Mtl. did ok with Hull, if he got by Claude Provost, Terry Harper would be draped all over him. Kenny Wharram was the guy that killed Mtl., it seemed.

 

[Ogopogo*]

73??? Those rankings you have there seem pretty inaccurate to me because Henri is definately better then that. Can you post the players you have ranked ahead of him?

1 Wayne Gretzky
2 Gordie Howe
3 Bobby Orr
4 Mario Lemieux
5 Jean Beliveau
6 Eddie Shore*
7 Bobby Hull
8 Ray Bourque
9 Maurice "Rocket" Richard
10 Phil Esposito
11 Stan Mikita
12 Guy Lafleur
13 Doug Harvey
14 Jaromir Jagr
15 Howie Morenz*
16 Leonard "Red" Kelly*
17 Francis "King" Clancy*
18 Bill Cowley
19 Paul Coffey
20 Ted Kennedy
21 Bryan Trottier
22 Earl Seibert*
23 Andy Bathgate
24 Syl Apps, Sr.
25 Cecil " Babe" Dye*
26 Bobby Clarke
27 Elmer Lach
28 Cy Denneny*
29 Marcel Dionne
30 Milt Schmidt
31 Mike Bossy
32 Nels Stewart*
33 Denis Potvin
34 Mark Messier
35 Larry Robinson
36 Lionel Conacher*
37 Joe Sakic
38 Pierre Pilote
39 Frank Boucher*
40 Charlie Conacher
41 Nicklas Lidstrom
42 Max Bentley
43 Steve Yzerman
44 Brad Park
45 Harry Cameron*
46 Bernie Geoffrion
47 Doug Bentley
48 Al MacInnis
49 Ted Lindsay
50 Brett Hull
51 Aurel Joliat*
52 Bill Cook*
53 Rod Langway
54 Edouard "Newsy" Lalonde*
Aubrey "Dit" Clapper*
56 Scott Stevens
57 Chris Chelios
58 Sprague Cleghorn*
59 Ebbie Goodfellow*
60 Teemu Selanne
61 Sid Abel
62 Jack Stewart*
63 Bill Gadsby
64 Hector "Toe" Blake
65 Brian Leetch
66 Frank Nighbor*
67 Borje Salming
68 Marty Barry
69 Gord Drillon
70 Adam Oates
71 Harry "Punch" Broadbent*
72 Frank Mahovlich
73 Henri Richard

 

[Psycho Papa Joe]

According to my ratings, the Rocket is the 9th greatest player in the history of the NHL, Henri is #73.

Your ratings are therefore flawed.

 

[Ogopogo*]

Your ratings are therefore flawed.

LOL. What do your ratings tell us?

 

[pappyline]

I could never argue that Henri was the better player, he wasn't. He was a great player though and brought different things to the table, and I won't get into g7 in 1971,oops I just did.
There were many that would argue Mikita/Hull though, weren't there ? Hull had the flash but some liked Mikita better.

Saturday games Mtl./Chicago were a treat in those days though. Mtl. did ok with Hull, if he got by Claude Provost, Terry Harper would be draped all over him. Kenny Wharram was the guy that killed Mtl., it seemed.

There may be a few people who think that Mikita was better than Hull but I have yet to meet one. By the way, next to Henri & Dryden the most dominant plater in the 71 playoffs was Hull.

 

[V-2 Schneider]

Richard wasn't even Montreal's best forward in the 1971 playoffs.He had a great game 7,but Beliveau,Frank Mahovolich and Lemaire, were all much better that entire playoff run.

 

[pappyline]

Richard wasn't even Montreal's best forward in the 1971 playoffs.He had a great game 7,but Beliveau,Frank Mahovolich and Lemaire, were all much better that entire playoff run.

Next to Dryden, He was their best player in game 7. Believe me I know as I watched that game intently. Still have nightmares of Lemaires fluke goal from center ice aganist Tony HOFER.,

 

[V-2 Schneider]

I watched that game, too.I also watched each game that entire playoff run.Richard played well, but he had a career night on Game 7.He was not Montreal's best forward during the playoffs.No question Hull played like a star,but the three i previously mentioned, made the difference in the Boston,Minnesota and Chicago series.

Look closer at the video, and Lemaire scored from just outside the blueline.His shot was as heavy as both Hull's, so it shouldn't be seen as a fluke.He has said that Tony O didn't see longshots well,so it wasn't like MacInnis bouncing on in on Potvin from center ice.