News Article: The Red Wings’ Empire Is Crumbling

[Unfriendly Ghost]

It's a garbage article. I don't need to look at data to try and figure out where things went wrong for this team.

Or maybe you do, and you don't know it. It's funny how people who don't use data to argue don't use data to evaluate arguments, either.

 

[Flowah]

another takeaway from this article, though, is just how dominant those wings teams were at controlling the game. To consistently be that high in those stats is just a scary amount of dominance.

That's what it takes to be an actually good team that contends for the cup. Stats do match up most of the time. We're not contenders and haven't been for a long time.

 

[Bench]

Is your point here "it's just a game, who cares?"

Pssh, it's not even original.

I love the argument, "We don't need to write about sports teams and their current standings" while on a hardcore hockey forum. Delicious. Beautiful.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Pssh, it's not even original.

I love the argument, "We don't need to write about sports teams and their current standings" while on a hardcore hockey forum. Delicious. Beautiful.

Hey, don't knock Bryz. That's how I make it through my games in net when I have a rough one.

 

[Claypool]

Is your point here "it's just a game, who cares?"

That seems to be your "point."

If you don't care you can certainly refrain from discussing it. I don't see where you come off telling others to not care though.

The data tells us nothing new, and any sports team going from champs to bottom feeder over the course of several years probably has the same declining data.

The Red Wings suck now and they used to be awesome. Wow, thanks for the insight. I would have never known if I didn't see your graph telling me this.

The article implies the team's sudden drop in play this season is surprising or unexpected when anyone who's followed this team knew this day was coming. I guess my point is this team is far past the point of trying to dissect what went wrong.

 

[Bench]

Hey, don't knock Bryz. That's how I make it through my games in net when I have a rough one.

I love him, too. I guess him and Suter used to get into all kinds of discussions while he was on the Wild.

 

[SpookyTsuki]

Finally 538 writes about the Wings.

Oh it's all bad.

****



Sigh.

That's where the corsi argument falls short of being a great one. Marchenko isn't a number 1d on this team. Not even close

 

[Bench]

That's where the corsi argument falls short of being a great one. Marchenko isn't a number 1d on this team. Not even close

I don't think that's the suggestion. The idea is that to create a winning defense, you want defenders that move the puck out of your zone and generate shots in the opponents zone. Marchenko was helping do that. Of course, there's more to that story.

But it's also no surprise that puck control freak Babcock is going to give Marchenko a chance in his system. I think Flowah was sighing at the idea that the Wings are favoring players that, even in the same minutes, don't show as much propensity to establish a puck control game.

 

[Reddwit]

I think you should be more concerned when nobody wants to write about the Wings at all.

Wings have been treated with kid gloves for so long. The Canadian teams face this kind of criticism every year, win or lose. Because people care.

Agreed. About time the Wings got some bad press, if people kept writing fluff pieces about how good this teams is at drafting, or how awesome it was they drafted Datsyuk and Z while this team is trending down, down, down, Holland would never be on the hot seat.

There was an article out some time ago about how the Wings organization handles derision, criticism, etc in the media. Write critically about the Wings? Face revocation of your press/media rights. That was the era of the Wings being a league beauty and, thus, the non-local media would publish the "jist" of the Wings: Great Organization Remains Great.

Now, the rest of the hockey world has a different story to tell: The Wings Suck. And no threat of "hey, we'll revoke your media rights" matters when NHL beat writers could care less about having special access to a ****** Red Wings locker room or upstairs office.

In short, we're seeing - and going to continue to see - criticism of the Wings at the national level. Because its a national story. The story of how the Wings came to suck ass is league news and dangling the keys over the heads of the local beat writers like HSJ or (RIP) Drew Sharpe means nothing anymore.

Prepare to see a lot more Wings backlash and Ken Holland-specific backlash once the Wings are officially eliminated from the game. Then you'll have every non-local writer and their mother penning articles about how Ken Holland has been making bad moves for years and they've finally caught up with him. From the local writers? You'll have write-ups waxing about league parity and the Wings past accomplishments.

 

[Run the Jewels]

It's a garbage article. I don't need to look at data to try and figure out where things went wrong for this team. I watch the games and look at the roster on the ice. This article could have been written at any point in the last three years, but now that the team will probably miss for real this time I guess it's time to publish it.

The writer clearly doesn't watch hockey or this team very often. This team hasn't been "great" since 2010. And they've been on the verge of missing the playoffs the last three years.

Weren't you the guy who predicted the Wings would win the Cup last year?

 

[jkutswings]

You don't need to do an autopsy. It's sports. Good teams eventually become bad, some sooner than others. This isn't unexpected; it's not a plane crash or an exploding phone.

Oh, the irony of using an internet message board specifically designed for sports...to say that sports doesn't need excessive coverage and analysis.

The truth is that The Detroit Red Wings have finally reached the stage of the slow decline where they are a bad hockey team. Many fans won't want to realize, let alone admit that. But the Wings stink. And the sooner the franchise begins acting accordingly, the better their chances at tangibly improving things.

 

[RedWingsfan55]

Not to be too much of an optimist, but:


We have finally weeded through the young glut of defensemen in Grand Rapids and the keepers have emerged (Oulette, Jensen, Sproul). We also have Green and DeKeyser as a pretty good anchor pair.


Mantha and AA have emerged, to compliment Larkin last year and Tatar and Nyquist before that. Vanek, Neilsen and Ott have all been solid free-agent acquisitions (been a while since we've had that). We finally saw Sheahan's true colors and are slowly trusting the kids and weeding out the vets (Miller).


Howard returned to something resembling form before he was injured and while Petr's been disappointing, he's probably learning more this year than he would of if things had gone swimmingly for him. Also, he's young... even Hasek went through a youth where he was just an ordinary goalie.


I don't think the baton has been dropped, I think this is what we needed: a sort it out year. My only real concern is do we have the right coach to take us forward?

I blashill would do,better with more kids honestly. Most of which he won with of,the ahl.


Its not his fault he gets the likes of kronwall, Miller and others jammed down,his throat. However it is his fault in the lack of ice time certain players, and far too much for others.

 

[TheMule93]

It's been crumbling since 2010 (almost a decade of decline!). Lidstrom retiring sealed our fate, Datsyuk retiring was the final nail in the coffin.

 

[Retire91]

another takeaway from this article, though, is just how dominant those wings teams were at controlling the game. To consistently be that high in those stats is just a scary amount of dominance.

We are absolutely spoiled rotten to have witnessed so much HOF level possession hockey.

 

[Reddwit]

I blashill would do,better with more kids honestly. Most of which he won with of,the ahl.


Its not his fault he gets the likes of kronwall, Miller and others jammed down,his throat. However it is his fault in the lack of ice time certain players, and far too much for others.

He has had the leeway to "rest" both of those guys this season. There is no evidence that anyone is being "shoved down his throat," unless you want to list "being signed to a contract" as evidence.

If you want to sympathize with Blashill, I'd bemoan the fact that he took the place of possibly the most hyped free agent coach of the modern era and took the reigns of an organization that had a "playoffs-or-bust" mentality. I've come to loathe him as the coach of this team but I'll still acknowledge that we might not be getting his best coaching, but rather the coaching he thinks is most likely to make the team squeak into the playoffs.

 

[Retire91]

I think blashill deserves one more season and with a younger team although I feel like its becoming more and more clear he is not a great NHL coach. I just don't think it matters, it took Babcock on of the greatest coaches of all time to make this a bubble team. I don't think there is a babcock out there itching to take on this team. If he gets fired then so be it but I don't think the coach is the most glaring issue, its the roster.

 

[Datsyukian Deke]

It's been crumbling since 2010 (almost a decade of decline!). Lidstrom retiring sealed our fate, Datsyuk retiring was the final nail in the coffin.

My very thoughts exactly.

Holland had zero plan in place on D for whenever Nick was to retire, and that's on him. Granted, can you replace a HOF'er, of course not...but you can at least take some steps to ensure it's not a total collapse once it arrives. And for Kenny to rely on guys like Kronwall & Ian White of all people to carry the torch, is borderline insanity.

Far too many questionable actions in coaching and in management, and they only seem to continue to grow with each passing day, it has to end...enough already.

 

[Retire91]

My very thoughts exactly.

Holland had zero plan in place on D for whenever Nick was to retire, and that's on him. Granted, can you replace a HOF'er, of course not...but you can at least take some steps to ensure it's not a total collapse once it arrives. And for Kenny to rely on guys like Kronwall & Ian White of all people to carry the torch, is borderline insanity.

Far too many questionable actions in coaching and in management, and they only seem to continue to grow with each passing day, it has to end...enough already.

In fairness I think he had a plan I just think he failed to execute it. He did try to sign Suter but I think the Parise dynamic killed the deal for us on top of Suter maybe not even signing here without Parise's influence.

Trading a 1st for Kyle Q was a horrible trade but loosing Lidstrom, acquiring quincey and calling it a day was insane.

I don't think he failed to have a plan, he just failed to be a good GM.

 

[Run the Jewels]

I think blashill deserves one more season and with a younger team although I feel like its becoming more and more clear he is not a great NHL coach. I just don't think it matters, it took Babcock on of the greatest coaches of all time to make this a bubble team. I don't think there is a babcock out there itching to take on this team. If he gets fired then so be it but I don't think the coach is the most glaring issue, its the roster.

I hope the Ilitches stick Holland with Blashill for the final year. Holland is the guy who maxed out the cap on an awful roster. There's no coach who can coach this team to being competitive. So why pay Blashill to go away, get a new coach, and then hopefully bring in a new GM after next season and saddle him with a coach he didn't hire? Tell Holland he has to keep Blashill and the organization will assess everything - front office, scouting, coaching - after the 2017-18 season.

 

[Retire91]

Yeah I can agree with that, there is also the risk of someone like Hitchcock coming in and managing to breath fire into this smoldering mess and sneak in to the 8th spot again. Then "we like our team" 2.0

 

[Flowah]

That's where the corsi argument falls short of being a great one. Marchenko isn't a number 1d on this team. Not even close

No. Just as Tatar isn't one of our top 2 forwards.

But the stat confirms to me that he was at least one of our top 6 d-men. He wasn't expensive. He's relatively young. He's a righty. He's got some good size. Why on earth did we give him up?

 

[Run the Jewels]

Yeah I can agree with that, there is also the risk of someone like Hitchcock coming in and managing to breath fire into this smoldering mess and sneak in to the 8th spot again. Then "we like our team" 2.0

Hitchcock would be an awful fit IMO. He was out of the playoff picture with a team with much more talent than we will have at any point in the next 5 years. My guess is he'll try to catch on with a team in better shape than Detroit. Coming to the Wings would be pretty much just coming to sign another contract with the expectation of being fired within two years. He seems a bit old for that. If we must fire Blashill I'd prefer to go with a guy like Nelson who would be getting his first real shot in the NHL and has proven to be able to coach above his talent level.

 

[lomekian]

A slightly dramatically titled but well constructed article that is probably much more interesting for more casual fans than for the obsessives that lurk on here (myself included). I didn't learn anything about our decline, but I did enjoy being reminded about how brilliant our team was for 18 of the last 25 years...

Along with the 100 greatest players celebrations, this reminds me that the Wings team I was lucky enough to discover in 1991 was truly one of the best in the history of the sport. It also reminds us that although mistakes have been made over the last 5 years, KH did a brilliant job at the first 8 years of the cap era.

Is he the man to transition us to our next contending team? It seems unlikely given the size of the job, his age and his personal attachments and preferred habits. Does he deserve much more respect than about half the posters on here will ever give him. Hell yes. Indeed, if there is anything this article shows, it is that perhaps the wings rosters should have won more between 03 and 2012.

 

[lomekian]

No. Just as Tatar isn't one of our top 2 forwards.

But the stat confirms to me that he was at least one of our top 6 d-men. He wasn't expensive. He's relatively young. He's a righty. He's got some good size. Why on earth did we give him up?

Because he got injured at the wrong time and Jensen surpassed expectations, and Blashill structure free hockey is not good for player like Marchenko, who I expect to do very nicely as a 4/5/6 for babs

 

[Flowah]

Because he got injured at the wrong time and Jensen surpassed expectations, and Blashill structure free hockey is not good for player like Marchenko, who I expect to do very nicely as a 4/5/6 for babs

I still like him better than Ericsson and Smith, who are both more expensive, older, not righties, and for some reason kept on the roster over Marchenko.