News Article: The Rebuild - Thoughts from Terry Murray

[solidprospect]

Former NHL coach on the Sens' rebuild

His brother Bryan Murray was the general manager of the Ottawa Senators for years. Terry Murray share what he thinks it takes for a rebuild to actually work.

Ottawa Morning | Former NHL coach on the Sens' rebuild

Click to read more...

 

[NorthCoast]

"Disappointing as a coach to see what's gone on."

"Probably need to bring in a whole new staff of people, going to need a big group of development staff, at least 5-6 people in place to make sure they get their stregth up to NHL level"

"Ownership is going to have to make a total commitment...fans will be mad, media will be hard on you, etc. ownership has to be onboard with the process"

"Fans need to know what is going on. Had lots of STH open sessions through the process in LA. Right now sens have to get back out their and sell their logo."

"You need a great management staff, a lot of intelligence sitting around talking through the decisions so that you don't make decisions that set you back years" cough. cough Duchene. cough cough.

-----------------------------------------

Slightly paraphrased but I think I got most of it correct.

 

[solidprospect]

I'll just say, for now, it sounds like some good thoughts. I think the reason we haven't done some of the things he's talking about is that the roster was still in the process of being torn down.

 

[Reaper45]

He's oldschool but Murray instilled that defense first mentality that helped L.A. win 2 cups.

 

[GrantLemons]

I listened to that earlier. Great take from TM.

We desperately need someone like him in hockey ops. It's insane we don't have anyone like him already.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

Good honest insight there with some excellent points, but without the sensationalism that while enjoyable, is not always completely accurate. This quote sticks out to me as a major time line problem for them.

"Ownership is going to have to make a total commitment...fans will be mad, media will be hard on you, etc. ownership has to be on board with the process"

The issue with this is that we're way way passed the point of fans or media taking this organization at their word and nothing is going to change consensus opinion until there's been significant actions to prove otherwise, full stop. He's already said that spending is not happening until 2021 at the earliest, and Nick insinuated they will be a cap floor team the next while. So, even if you believe his spending claims by 2021 or later (I certainly don't) we're looking at 2-3 years before reasonable actions to convince fans to buy in have been made. Is there going to be too much damage to the brand and overall disinterest by then? Will they have to pull back on their promises because they lost even more support than they expected?

Even if the spending is there (on what I don't know), I stand by my opinion that there is nothing that can turn the tides but a figure head change in ownership. Melnyk's personality has driven a wedge and it's not going anywhere.

 

[jbeck5]

We as fans understand that we have to be patient for the roster to become a strong roster. We're not stupid.

We also understand that if you're serious about becoming a contender, you have to get the best management and development staff. That doesn't have to wait several years. That can start right away.

Like we've seen, our organization is bare bones. Our management team is essentially melnyk melnyk melnyk dorion dorion dorion. You look at other teams and they have 7 guys doing those jobs.

If they're serious, we should see a bunch of reputable professionals being hired for those positions.

Like I said, we're not stupid.

Having the status quo and saying "just wait for these young guys to get better" is not enough. Not even close.

 

[NorthCoast]

I'll just say, for now, it sounds like some good thoughts. I think the reason we haven't done some of the things he's talking about is that the roster was still in the process of being torn down.

Shocking caveat...I an not an NHL GM

BUT, if I was I would think that the process would go something like:

- Where is the style of play headed over the next 5-10 years.
- What on-ice system best takes advantage of these trends
- What player roles are needed for this on-ice system
- What players do we have right now that are projected to fill system roles

--------------------------------

- Do we have the right coach for the system
- Do we have players right now that are locks to fill a spot in the system in 3-5 years
- What core roles do we not have a players for

--------------------------------

- What players can we draft that match the style we want and project to fill an open role
- What players can we sign in free agency to fill a role
- What players can we trade for


I guess what I am saying is that I would probably approach it by nailing the strategy first before acquiring players. Which means that the first two sections of questions above should already be determine and could be ready to communicate to the public.

 

[GrantLemons]

Terry just did another segment on The Drive with Ian and Simmer. Similar subject matter, but man Terry sounds like a guy who'd love to step into this organization and start setting things straight. Sounded fairly disappointed that they've basically burned down everything Bryan work so hard to build.

 

[DrEasy]

Good honest insight there with some excellent points, but without the sensationalism that while enjoyable, is not always completely accurate. This quote sticks out to me as a major time line problem for them.

"Ownership is going to have to make a total commitment...fans will be mad, media will be hard on you, etc. ownership has to be on board with the process"

The issue with this is that we're way way passed the point of fans or media taking this organization at their word and nothing is going to change consensus opinion until there's been significant actions to prove otherwise, full stop. He's already said that spending is not happening until 2021 at the earliest, and Nick insinuated they will be a cap floor team the next while. So, even if you believe his spending claims by 2021 or later (I certainly don't) we're looking at 2-3 years before reasonable actions to convince fans to buy in have been made. Is there going to be too much damage to the brand and overall disinterest by then? Will they have to pull back on their promises because they lost even more support than they expected?

Even if the spending is there (on what I don't know), I stand by my opinion that there is nothing that can turn the tides but a figure head change in ownership. Melnyk's personality has driven a wedge and it's not going anywhere.

Maybe a giant mea culpa could do the trick. Melnyk announcing he's going to take a step back, allocate a huge chunk of money to build a professional front office, complete with a president, a GM, and a bunch of AGMs, an analytics department, a bunch of advisors, a whole bunch of scouts. Top-notch training facilities, transportation, food. And the commitment that he's going to let them do the job and not interfere.

Then if he goes ahead and implements this, it makes it easier to stomach running the team at the salary floor while the team is maturing.

The thing is, setting up a professional front office probably costs less than one year of Karlsson's or Stone's salary. It's a better investment. He should like it.

(of course I realize none of this is going to happen)

 

[justafan22]

Dorion is never getting an AGM job ever again in this league

 

[Sentron5000]

Dorion is never getting an AGM job ever again in this league

In a league where John Ferguson Jr., Dave Nonis and Don Waddell got 2nd (and 3rd) chances, Pierre Dorion will get another chance as assistant GM.

 

[Caeldan]

Good honest insight there with some excellent points, but without the sensationalism that while enjoyable, is not always completely accurate. This quote sticks out to me as a major time line problem for them.

"Ownership is going to have to make a total commitment...fans will be mad, media will be hard on you, etc. ownership has to be on board with the process"

The issue with this is that we're way way passed the point of fans or media taking this organization at their word and nothing is going to change consensus opinion until there's been significant actions to prove otherwise, full stop. He's already said that spending is not happening until 2021 at the earliest, and Nick insinuated they will be a cap floor team the next while. So, even if you believe his spending claims by 2021 or later (I certainly don't) we're looking at 2-3 years before reasonable actions to convince fans to buy in have been made. Is there going to be too much damage to the brand and overall disinterest by then? Will they have to pull back on their promises because they lost even more support than they expected?

Even if the spending is there (on what I don't know), I stand by my opinion that there is nothing that can turn the tides but a figure head change in ownership. Melnyk's personality has driven a wedge and it's not going anywhere.

Technically the 21 season is only one full season away.

This is 19 (and a writeoff), next year is 20. So really, we only have one season to sit through at least to see if we can take management at its word yet. And the signs should be in place starting Jan 1 2020, then again at trade deadline and draft day.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

Technically the 21 season is only one full season away.

This is 19 (and a writeoff), next year is 20. So really, we only have one season to sit through at least to see if we can take management at its word yet. And the signs should be in place starting Jan 1 2020, then again at trade deadline and draft day.

That could be, I guess it depends how you interpret the press release and the fact that seasons cross over two years. It leaves the door open for either 2020-21 or 2021-22. I took the 2021 being used as the start date of their 2021-25 spending claim to mean that 2020-21 was off the table and that 2021-2022 was "the beginning" of the spending. It also makes sense to me based on their trajectory of necessary building for two more seasons after this one. That would leave us with two full seasons plus the rest of this one.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

Maybe a giant mea culpa could do the trick. Melnyk announcing he's going to take a step back, allocate a huge chunk of money to build a professional front office, complete with a president, a GM, and a bunch of AGMs, an analytics department, a bunch of advisors, a whole bunch of scouts. Top-notch training facilities, transportation, food. And the commitment that he's going to let them do the job and not interfere.

Then if he goes ahead and implements this, it makes it easier to stomach running the team at the salary floor while the team is maturing.

The thing is, setting up a professional front office probably costs less than one year of Karlsson's or Stone's salary. It's a better investment. He should like it.

(of course I realize none of this is going to happen)

That could certainly work if he were to actually follow through, but everyone would still be in a wait and see mode since it was still coming from Eugene, so it wouldn't have quite the immediate bomb drop excitement effect of a new face buying the team. Him being done in the market is assuming he stays the Eugene we know, but ya if Melnyk is all of a sudden willing to change his colors on a dime like that, stop meddling and start running things professionally with qualifed people, then I'm sure it would be all fine after enough actions have happened to believe it.

 

[Betax]

Dorion is never getting an AGM job ever again in this league

I expect he will get an AGM job -- he has a history of being good at evaluating talent for the deeper rounds of the draft and while he's made some bad trades he's made some that have turned up better than they looked on the surface. That is a talent that teams will want -- they just won't want him making the big decisions or speaking for the team.

 

[The Lewler]

I expect he will get an AGM job -- he has a history of being good at evaluating talent for the deeper rounds of the draft and while he's made some bad trades he's made some that have turned up better than they looked on the surface. That is a talent that teams will want -- they just won't want him making the big decisions or speaking for the team.

Not to mention there is always a new terrible owner developing somewhere that might value his experience as a fall guy / yes man.

 

[RaMai]

Pierre Dorion said only a few month ago that he has the money to hire additional staff, but he doesn't need to because he has the best team possible. I think, once again, the success shows how PD is great at evaluating. Coaches, where his team is at, his own work, his management teams work...all honky dory!

Any buy in that's needed to get through this rough patch has to start from top down, new owner o at least a partner.
New CEO, maybe President of Hockey operations...from there have these people evaluate and, if required, have them shape the front office to build on. Where this leaves Pierre? I don't really care.

Edit: @DrEasy said it way better, somehow skipped your post when skimming through

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Dorion has to be careful not to hire anyone that can replace him too readily. Anyone with NHL Hockey ops experience is out.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

He should have added “aaaaan when you have 5 stars in their mid twenties it’s probably not the right time to do thisl

 

[BatherSeason]

Terry just did another segment on The Drive with Ian and Simmer. Similar subject matter, but man Terry sounds like a guy who'd love to step into this organization and start setting things straight. Sounded fairly disappointed that they've basically burned down everything Bryan work so hard to build.

I liked everything he said, until he talked about the importance of local players. He lost me there.

This org needs to rid itself completely of the Murray/Dorion regime. Bringing in Terry Murray would not do that.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

I liked everything he said, until he talked about the importance of local players. He lost me there.

This org needs to rid itself completely of the Murray/Dorion regime. Bringing in Terry Murray would not do that.

Considering how critical he is about the purge among other things.. If he was on a list he's been scratched off

 

[BatherSeason]

Considering how critical he is about the purge among other things.. If he was on a list he's been scratched off

Have to completely agree with you here. The fact that he was out there speaking about the Ottawa Senators without Melnyk's permission, he could probably look forward to a lawsuit.

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

Have to completely agree with you here. The fact that he was out there speaking about the Ottawa Senators without Melnyk's permission, he could probably look forward to a lawsuit.

Freedom of the press.

 

[Upgrayedd]

So many great and logical ideas in here that are impossible to disagree with, fact of the matter is we have seen zero actions or results when there has been plenty of time for both. The strangest part is that in theory hiring a full complete robust front office hockey staff, business staff including an experienced marketing team should be once of the "cheaper" things in pro sports and the results have been proven over and over again to a degree, if of course the correct hires are made which is obviously the biggest wild card.