The Race for the Calder Trophy

[Hawkaholic]

Have you seen the decisions that many NHL teams make? To think there’s absolute consensus on anything in this league is absurd. Lol

There would 100% be consensus on every team taking Bedard, only a fool would think otherwise.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

There would 100% be consensus on every team taking Bedard, only a fool would think otherwise.

Every single team would draft Bedard over Faber, but I don't think 100% of teams would take 18 year old Bedard over 21 year old Faber for a playoff run. Just going off of a few quotes from that Athletic article, I think there are still a fair amount of hockey people who value defense more, and might take Faber as of today.

Scotty Bowman seems to be one of them - and mentions that that nobody reports on how bad Bedard is defensively:

Defense has always been more complex to round out your game because you’ve had to defend near your goal and you have to master the art of playing smartly at the opposing blue line. I have heard that Luke Richardson has lately openly said Bedard has to learn to play the defensive side of the puck much more frequently. Bedard gets a lot of hype — deservedly so. But I have never seen reported his (plus-minus rating, currently minus-37).

Then he goes on to explain that it's usually what you get from young centers coming out of junior, but emphasises how being responsible defensively is what matters for winning cups:

Most of the younger aces have always been offensive guys who, in time, must learn the 200-foot game. My two experiences on players I coached were Jacques Lemaire, who in junior only played offense but after his first few years with the Canadiens learned how to play two way; and (Steve) Yzerman, halfway through his career in Detroit played the 200-foot game — which I give them credit for, by changing their style and, to me, is the reason they won multiple Stanley Cups.

Here's another quote from a league scout highlighting Faber's value to the Wild

That guy is f—ing good,” one NHL scout said of Faber. “(Bedard) is special, and he does a lot with not much help. But if he’s valuable to his team, you talk about (Faber) too. If (Faber’s) not back there, it’s going to be trouble. That’s a hard one.

If (the Wild) sneak into the playoffs, it’s got to be him.

To me, that signals that there wouldn't be 100% consensus on who GMs would take for a playoff run this spring.

Faber is not a shutdown defensemen by any metric.

Okay lol...

I guess Faber needs to do a better job of covering the point man. Oh wait, that's not his job. His job is preventing chances in high danger areas, which he does extremely well.

Shutdown defensemen don't see the 3rd-most pucks go into his net from his position for half the season and counting. Shutdown defensemen don't have below average possession numbers near the bottom of his team. Shutdown defensemen don't play nearly half the game for a team, only slightly improve the expected 5 on 5 goals against when he's on the ice, and yet still give up more goals than most teams. And the kicker? His team's expected offense is only slightly improved when he's on the ice. Your definition of valuable offensively must be a lot wider than mine.

This is an incredibly dumb take. Faber matches up against the best players in the league on a nightly basis and still comes out on top. That is what #1 shutdown defenseman do.

 

[roon]

There would 100% be consensus on every team taking Bedard, only a fool would think otherwise.

I think it really depends on where that team is. It is quite obvious by Bedard's stat line that the kid hasn't figured out the defensive side of the NHL game as a C. I'm sure he will - but the question is how many seasons will that take.

Faber on the other hand is a 21 year old top pairing D right now on virtually any team in the NHL...with very few visible holes in his game. Defense wins championships....that hasn't and won't change for the foreseeable future.

 

[MuckOG]

Hypothetical - if "current 18 year old Bedard" and "current 21 year old Faber" were offered (for free) to each of the 32 NHL GM's - how many do you think would choose Faber over Bedard?

Meaningless hypothetical when it comes to rookie of the year discussion.

 

[Hawkaholic]

I think it really depends on where that team is.

No, it wouldn't.

 

[roon]

No, it wouldn't.

I get it bud - Bedard was a consensus #1 overall, probably a generational offensive talent. However - a team like the Oilers take Faber every day of the week and twice on Sunday over Bedard given where they currently are...and I don't think that's a controversial take...I bet quite a few Oilers fans would agree with me honestly.

 

[eklund2chicago]

Most would choose Bedard. Age works in his favor for that discussion. This is the Calder trophy topic though, age only matters for eligibility.

Dude cmon, most?

Everyone and their mother would pick Bedard over Faber.

He is playing in one of the worst NHL teams in the last ten years and is putting up a point per game. Next to Kaprizov in Minnesota he would have scored 100 points this year, he is that good.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

No, it wouldn't.

Do you think Scotty Bowman would take 18 year old Bedard over 21 Faber? Because it certainly doesn't sound like it. I would venture a guess that more than 1 GM feels the same way.

I get it bud - Bedard was a consensus #1 overall, probably a generational offensive talent. However - a team like the Oilers take Faber every day of the week and twice on Sunday over Bedard given where they currently are...and I don't think that's a controversial take...I bet quite a few Oilers fans would agree with me honestly.

Yep, Toronto too. Scoring goals isn't a problem for them.

 

[ZDH]

Dude cmon, most?

Everyone and their mother would pick Bedard over Faber.

He is playing in one of the worst NHL teams in the last ten years and is putting up a point per game. Next to Kaprizov in Minnesota he would have scored 100 points this year, he is that good.

Faber's mom picks Bedard over Faber.

 

[Hawkaholic]

I get it bud - Bedard was a consensus #1 overall, probably a generational offensive talent. However - a team like the Oilers take Faber every day of the week and twice on Sunday over Bedard given where they currently are...and I don't think that's a controversial take...I bet quite a few Oilers fans would agree with me honestly.

No team drafts a player for what they can do tomorrow, they draft for what they will do in the future. Every team takes Bedard, and you're delusional if you think otherwise.

 

[Obvious Fabertism]

Dude cmon, most?

Everyone and their mother would pick Bedard over Faber.

He is playing in one of the worst NHL teams in the last ten years and is putting up a point per game. Next to Kaprizov in Minnesota he would have scored 100 points this year, he is that good.

I already posted about why your last paragraph is entirely unlikely. As for the “most” part, it’s just an impossible hypothetical, I don’t deal in absolutes generally. “A vast majority” would work but I already get called out for using words with more than 5 letters in them when talking to Chicago fans.

An actual hypothetical that applies to the Calder trophy: one minute left in the game this season and you are trying to win, you can pick one, both, or neither, who are you putting on the ice when down by a goal? Now how about up by a goal?

 

[roon]

No team drafts a player for what they can do tomorrow, they draft for what they will do in the future. Every team takes Bedard, and you're delusional if you think otherwise.

Call me Delusional then I guess - but a team with McDavid/Drai and as pointed out Matthews/Marner etc....doesn't need more of the same in Bedard to win a Cup. They need what they don't have - which is young stud Defensemen.

Bedard's skillset exists in the NHL on quite a few teams - he is also going to be a salary cap nightmare for someone - 14mil plus. I do not agree that every team takes him over Faber.

 

[BHawk21]

Call me Delusional then I guess - but a team with McDavid/Drai and as pointed out Matthews/Marner etc....doesn't need more of the same in Bedard to win a Cup. They need what they don't have - which is young stud Defensemen.

Bedard's skillset exists in the NHL on quite a few teams - he is also going to be a salary cap nightmare for someone - 14mil plus. I do not agree that every team takes him over Faber.

You are wrong then.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Dude cmon, most?

Everyone and their mother would pick Bedard over Faber.

He is playing in one of the worst NHL teams in the last ten years and is putting up a point per game. Next to Kaprizov in Minnesota he would have scored 100 points this year, he is that good.

If Chicago is so bad and Bedard is so good, why does Chicago perform worse when he's off the ice than when he's on the ice?

Look at their 5v5 goal differential numbers with and without Bedard on the ice:
With Bedard:
2.33 GF/60
4.12 GA/60
-1.78 goal differential per 60 mins

Without Bedard:
1.61 GF/60
2.80 GA/60
-1.19 goal differential per 60 mins

You would think that with Chicago being so terrible, it would be easy for a superstar to improve upon team's on ice results. But that hasn't happened - in fact, they are an even worse 5v5 team when Bedard steps on the ice. Sure, they are scoring 0.72 more goals per 60, but the increase in GA/60 is nearly double that.

 

[ryan callahan]

There would 100% be consensus on every team taking Bedard, only a fool would think otherwise.

Lmao repeating the same lie over and over again doesn't make it true.

 

[BHawk21]

Lmao repeating the same lie over and over again doesn't make it true.

Which teams wouldnt take Bedard over Faber lol? Remember Bedard has an extra year of ELC.

 

[roon]

You are wrong then.

Sure Sure....put the Copium down - Bedard is great and A LOT of teams would love to have him. However McDavid is better than Bedard and for that matter so is Drai - the Oilers don't need him and couldn't afford him - Neither could Toronto as Matthews/Marner and Nylander are all better than Bedard currently...and owed a large chunk of the Salary cap...they simply wouldn't tie up more of it for a kid who is -37 but will toss out some sick dangles from time to time.

They want to win a cup and will take Faber to help their Defense every day of the week.

 

[Hawkaholic]

Call me Delusional then I guess - but a team with McDavid/Drai and as pointed out Matthews/Marner etc....doesn't need more of the same in Bedard to win a Cup. They need what they don't have - which is young stud Defensemen.

Bedard's skillset exists in the NHL on quite a few teams - he is also going to be a salary cap nightmare for someone - 14mil plus. I do not agree that every team takes him over Faber.

They do

no team is drafting for what they are doing now. 18 year old Bedard is taken over 18 year old Faber every day of the week, making up dumb ass hypotheticals is just that, dumb. Every team takes Bedard, every draft no matter where they currently are.

 

[ryan callahan]

Which teams wouldnt take Bedard over Faber lol? Remember Bedard has an extra year of ELC.

The discussion is around this yrs Bedard against this yrs Faber for a playoff run. On the long run at this point you easily take Bedard above Faber. Bedard has been utterly terrible at 5v5 this yr and fans deny it as if we're attacking their own son.

 

[BHawk21]

Sure Sure....put the Copium down - Bedard is great and A LOT of teams would love to have him. However McDavid is better than Bedard and for that matter so is Drai - the Oilers don't need him and couldn't afford him - Neither could Toronto as Matthews/Marner and Nylander are all better than Bedard currently...and owed a large chunk of the Salary cap...they simply wouldn't tie up more of it for a kid who is -37 but will toss out some sick dangles from time to time.

They want to win a cup and will take Faber to help their Defense every day of the week.

They would have Mcdavid and Draisaitl for 3 years with him on his ELC. They can trade Draisaitl and pick up a Faber+. This is nuts. Bedard is 18 and a PPG center with the highest ceilings since Matthews.

 

[Hawkaholic]

The discussion is around this yrs Bedard against this yrs Faber for a playoff run. On the long run at this point you easily take Bedard above Faber. Bedard has been utterly terrible at 5v5 this yr and fans deny it as if we're attacking their own son.

Because his team is terrible 5 on 5 lol, imagine thinking one player dictates your whole team defense, do you people even hockey?

 

[FLAMESFAN]

Again the Faber fan club is ruining this thread....
Faber is a good Dman, you couldn't have asked more from him this year. But guys like Bedard sell tickets and the sport. Bedard is the truly special player. He is most likely winning the award, and you guys are just going to have to deal with it.

 

[roon]

They do

no team is drafting for what they are doing now. 18 year old Bedard is taken over 18 year old Faber every day of the week, making up dumb ass hypotheticals is just that, dumb. Every team takes Bedard, every draft no matter where they currently are.

That isn't the premise though....it was right now this year as both players currently stand....if given the opportunity to take either Bedard or Faber right now through the end of the season.

That is what was originally responded to.

Nobody was talking about drafting.

Because his team is terrible 5 on 5 lol, imagine thinking one player dictates your whole team defense, do you people even hockey?

His team is worse 5v5 with him on the ice vs off of it.

 

[FLAMESFAN]

Age has just as much to do with winning as does this hypothetical of who would a team want more on a playoff run.

 

[roon]

They would have Mcdavid and Draisaitl for 3 years with him on his ELC. They can trade Draisaitl and pick up a Faber+. This is nuts. Bedard is 18 and a PPG center with the highest ceilings since Matthews.

Nobody is suggesting his ceiling isn't high or that he isn't valueable.

You also can't just trade a guy like Drai with a NMC. Edmonton already has a 1C that doesn't like to play defense in McDavid - now they are going to add another?

Nah.